First Land is no more

Okay Jack............from a very non programmer. They can and did track or monitor who was eligible for First Land. You used it once and you could not use again....one shot thing. How is that very much different from once you buy that first land tracking or monitoring that purchase for a given period of time before you had the option of selling it again for more than, say a 5% profit? That would have put a big hurt on the First Land flipping that went on so rampantly. Or how much more difficult would it be to tie alternate avis to a single method of payment and deny first land to avis with the same CC, PayPal, or other method of payment account? I can see some injustices in the latter case with families.........but really that could be solved too if they had some sort of competent customer service (a phone call, or maybe a simple form to submit). Sorry, your expert comments sound like excuses..........it won't wash with me.

You can't tell me that it could not be done and could not be done without having to work themselves to death. The financial explanation is probably spot on.......it would create some work that maybe is not as productive as other work. But shafting your base for your convenience will never get you far..............not after Microsoft did it's B.S. It worked for Bill Gates because he was the first to get by with it. Most people are too smart to let it happen again to them (I said "MOST"...........not all). Besides, Phillip Rosedale is no Bill Gates. Rest assurred their are some folks out their watching Linden Labs, looking at the successes and failures and working on another project to compete.............and there will a mass exudus from SL when they open for business

Honestly, I've been around since beta with one avie or the other, and first land has always been a mess. Maybe they should just give you 5000 instead of 1250 or whatever it is when you first go premium.

If you want cheap land do not buy it until the land flippers and barons get sick of eating the tier and lower their prices. As long as people pay the higher rates for land, the higher they will get. If the SL land market behaves anything like the RL land market, the signs are already there that either a crash or a major cooling off is about to happen. Be patient don't buy any land till it is in YOUR price range not the baron's price range.

Well, I KNOW they could fix it, because when they put Blumfield out, giving new players a house with a 512 piece of land, it was made so they couldn't transfer the land for 60 days.

Now I agree with you that the benefit of fixing it, to LL, wasn't worth the cost of, you know, actually flipping that SWITCH.

Because they really don't want to be bothered with small-time land owners aka premium accounts any more, at all, ever. The goal is to eventually just stop offering premium accounts. No stipends, no customer service, nada.

So why don't they do it right away, instead of this slow death by a thousand cuts we've been witnessing over the past year or so? Because then they would LOSE us. And they can't afford to lose us right now.

But in their ultimate plan, yes - we are a goner. If you can't afford to buy entire Sims, you be out of luck, re customer service and everything else. Ultimately, that will be whole blocks of sims; none of this single-sim stuff.

(And speaking of customer service, whatever happened to all that talk on the blog not long ago about how they were going to revamp all that? Maybe when pigs fly.)

coco

P.S. Here's another thing, in case others haven't noticed. What always happens in SL is something dies from neglect and abuse first, for months and months, while residents talk urgently about it and propose (imminently sensible) suggestions to fix it.

This goes on for a while, then LL finally announces that it isn't working right; and so they are axing it.

I really don't know if this is a conscious strategy. It's possible that things just DO fall into neglect for ages, then someone at the top says, "This is giving me a headache. Let's just get rid of it." And the employees who were having to answer questions about it breathe a sigh of relief.

But it is also a way of killing something off. Let it turn into a problem first. Refuse to do anything to fix the problem.

My last post to the Linden Answers forum was asking why not make First Land non-transferable for sixty days, like Blumfield. However, the question didn't get answered, because the Linden Answers forum, which also had been neglected and abused for ages, was abruptly shut down.

I brought it up again on the Blog, and Robin said they were considering the pros and cons of such a plan. I'm thinking to myself, what cons?

It turns out that apparently the con was residents "losing their freedom." Not that I buy that for a moment, of course. I mean, that's REALLY stretching.

So you can't say they weren't aware of that solution. Many variations on that solution have been presented. Most of which people would have been overjoyed with.

Instead, we get this.

The truth is plain and simple: They make more money by cutting out First Land. It would be nice if they would just admit it.

Lindens, I agree with the crowd that says, " make em hold it till the 'quick buck' factor is gone." Let the newbies have their first land dammit! This is the contract they signed when they decided to go premium. At least grandfather em in!! If you need to dump the program because you cant figure out how to stop the misuse of the system, at least take care of those who you made a promise to. Yes, all businesses have the clause in their contract which states basically " WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO, WE CAN CHANGE ANYTHING WE WANT TO, AND ITS YOUR OWN TOUGH LUCK" but that doesnt make it right or morally justifiable to screw your customers out of something you said they would recieve. Play nice with those who wish to work with you to make this successful. I remember my 'first land', it was a disaster. Something went wrong somehow and I recall the land being scoffed back up by the Governor. Worst 512 bucks I ever spent. But I think everybody should have the opportunity to have their own first land disaster. Make it so.

It drives me nuts when people accept stupid decisions like this saying "it wasn't benefiting annyone anyway" In this case and in the case of the Linden Answers forum, the lack of benefit was PURELY because of LL shortcomings. More effort, better policies, and more resources could have made both of these VERY beneficial.

Heh, that makes me laugh. What about the freedom to have land that can only be afforded by some?

To try to answer the thread starter's question about land price impact I must say that I believe 512m land plots will still sell for too much by these "Land Barons". I believe this because the tier is still free for that size of land for Premium members. I guess it would be worth it for a higher price if someone could make use of the size and prim limits for an extended period of time. I'm starting to think the First Land system was done away with because (a) it was being scammed (b) it was costing the company too much money and (c) they could not provide each Premium customer with First Land and there were too many complaints

a) Agreed. b) Agreed. c) Agreed.

If memory serves me right, something like 20k new people became premium from mid December to January. Now LL would have to bring out over 150 sims to satisfy the demand... Sounds overwhelming

Everybody seems to ignore the fact that firstland was never guaranteed (check the small print, says "subject to availability".

It is sad for the people that purchased a premium account in hopes of getting firstland and now missing out on it.... but that is something you should have known before you purchased.

It is definitely misleading and a nasty thing for LL to do "effective immediately"... and maybe they will still remedy this for the recent premium account holders if they are nice.... but don't go around saying that anybody has the right to first land, because nobody does.

LL is all about the US$$'s and nothing else.
Lousy customer service lousy attitude towards new players and even lousier attitude when it comes to having a positive attitude towards new players unless they are big time players (chrysler,disney and so on.....
Just you wait and see, greed on LL's part will be there own self destruction.
And you better believe I'll be standing there laughing when they bring back some goods to intice new players. As usual LL's idea of fair play take from the poor and give to the rich. Republican tactics at its best. Make the rich richer and all will benefit..... NOT a chance only the rich benefit and no one else.
LL is the epitamy of elitism at its best.

They should have ended the First Land program months ago:

/13/c8/151831/1.html

-peekay

Just wait till LL decides to charge for each and every account with 0 benefits no linden weekly's and lets see how many are happy with that.
Everytime I se and hear about what LL's doing there are always those that agree with them its about time for the players to take a real hard look at what is rerally going on here.
Without a player based money system every single action will have a reaction.
Land prices are way out of hand and what is LL's reaction to that ?
Nothing and nothing will be done.
I play for the players not the all mighty dollar.
There will be a break down of the system and SL will falter
I'll see some of you in future games once this happens.
Secondlife is a fantasy world with infinite possibilities but as we all know the creator has ultimate control with all the weaknesses of human faults.
Currently LL is making decisions based solely on money with no concerns at all to its player base.
They (LL) will continue to do so and will continue to reduce the quality of (gameplay) for new players until new players no longer can and or will be able to afford Secondlife.
The decision to end first land is totally based on a biased decision to end profiteering even at the cost of new players.
Does LL care? ......... nope they could care less and show it through there so called customer service.
Read the reports they receive from BBB

I never forgot that. But as recently as just a couple weeks ago LL was promising more First Land release..............and begging our patience. Implying the problem would be resolved "soon"..........yeah they resolved it alright.

Small print............geeze I hear that all the time and it makes me scream. You got to be nuts to keep saying that when it's always so obvious it's plain and simple abuse. Abuse by the Lindens. Not abuse by the players. It's not the players fault that they were misled about a "benefit" and because they were asking for that "benefit" from the ones who promised it. It's the Lindens fault for one of two reasons...........failure to deliver or making the promise in the first place. They renegged..........they faulted.........they lied. Small print or no the people who bought into the stated "benefit" got shafted. Screwed, Cheated. Robbed...........any other negetive term or word anyone else wants to apply.

And remember all you excuse makers for the Lindens: Linden Labs developed the game. They controled the development. They made the rules. They set up the incentives to pay for the game. They built it. But they also refused to take care of the problems. They refused to listen to reasonable requests. They allowed the system to be abused. And they will continue with their "enlightened" view of what we, the users, want regardless of what we are asking for...................it's their "Kingdom".

And we all have a right to demand what was "promised" us..........especially ones who pay real money to play. And 1 stinking USD a year is paying to play. Linden Labs can stick that small print up their very niave (or should that be stupid?) butts.

I'd say it's lazy.... with a touch of greedy butts.

has anyone considered what impact this will have on the economy? no first land.. okay.. let's look at what this could mean.

land barons supply of "bargain land" dreis up. First, we don't really KNOW how widespread this issue was, if it was even going on. Sure, we all are certain it was.. but with only anecdotal evidence. But let's assume that some unscrupulous people were getting land cheap, and selling it off for a fast buck. Those people probably cashed out their lindens fast. Thus lessening the supply of available for purchase lindens. (increasing the value of a $L)

new users will be less likely to buy land (for a time). what impact will this have on the market? will demand for houses, furnishings, and land-owner based things like security systems, custom landscaping, etc be affected? it's possible that these markets could see a downward trend.

noobs, faced with ONLY being able to buy expensive land, may turn to renting. Good time to own land then, we could see an increase in rental prices now, since the market may well bear it more.

fewer people may be willing to go premium (duh) and therefore, fewer people will have a stipend (regular paycheck). These same people, potentially may feel disgusted with Linden Labs, and therefore may not be willing to "put any money into that game"... fewer people willing to buy lindens, lowering the value of lindens. Fewer peopel WITH money.. fewer sales for goods and services.

With the only land being bought, being expensive.. new land owners may likely be more discriminating in terms of their other purchases. ONly the finest house will do on their $20 USD plot of land. Then again.. perhaps they will turn more towards freebies.. given how much they just paid out for the land.

in conclusion.. it's hard to make a conclusion as to what the markets will do. But it seems obvious to me that the future may be a rocky one, until this all shakes out. One thing is certain.. it's a bad time to have all your eggs in one basket.

A new player who registered on February 19th IMed me earlier today. Believe it or not, the poor guy upgraded to premium on his first day and it just so happens to be the day before this all went down... I feel sorry for him, sadly there's not much I can do. Not like I can offers 512s for 512L

Well I think my 22 1/2 eggs every three months is going to be gone

Tell your friend to hang in there if he wants to continue with these rip off artists. I think my next billing cycle is May.............I might sell him my land for L$1.

That's very kind of you

At the very least, LL should allow those who upgraded within the last couple weeks the courtesy of a refund.

You can scream all you want, but this is the fact and life in this date and age. People, company and government breaks promise everyday.
I really don't see what all the doom and groom about the whole deal of first land. Come on people if you are on premium a month, you probably has lost a month of two month worth of monthly fee $20 USD, and during the sign up you get 750L sign up bonus and L 2400 for 2 month worth of Linden which is about $10 USD, You can downgrade your account immediately and lost only $10 USD, if you did sign up for a longer term, then like I said in my previous post you only need to make $2 USD about L$ 512 to break even. If not your max lost for a annual account is about $24 dollars.. so really people we are talking about less than $30 dollar. This is not even enough money for a Xbox game or Nintendo Wii game.

If your angry with LL is about your principle on "Breaking the Promise part" I will go after your local elected government first which their decision probably affected you more life more than what LL does.
And if you live in either Canada or USA and is under 40 years old, I will put my energy on flighting for a more fair reform on Social Security or Canadian Pension Plan which you now contribute to it every pay check and might not able to get anything out of it when you retire!

First land is not as big a factor as you think. Most of the land that is out there has been bought at auction (and re-bought, and maybe even re-re-bought). Auction bidders are willing to pay in the ballpark of 13-14L/m2 for a brand new mainland sim, coming out at about 3k or even 4k for the waterfront sims. Quite simply, there is no cheap land to be had when the base price is this high. It really becomes a matter of "how bad do you want it" and apparently a lot of people want their land now.

But there will be decrease of L in the game with a player exodus, unless the money would-be premium members is spent buying L as verified accounts.

Demand for prefabs/building will go down from end users, but up from those who are developing land. It becomes a landlord's market, not a buyer's market. There is still a need, because people who are into property development only have so much time on their hands.

This is more likely to happen, as the demand for rentals may outstrip supply. But I think those that turn to property development will increase as well, so rental prices won't go through the roof. The rental market is highly competitive.

My experience is that 300L doesn't go very far. Stipend is almost irrelevant when it comes to injecting money into the economy.

That depends on the thriftiness of the land owner. Some people want palaces, others don't want to put too much into the game. This, you cannot predict.

That is for dang sure.

This just adds one more thing to the list that makes premium accounts pointless to have. Why not just remove the service all together and be done with it LL? There's no way in hell I'm going to pay for something that gives me little to nothing.

Edit: i can understand where LL is coming from with this decision, however they should have done something else besides remove first land all together. The land was being bought out by land baron alts, and was not truly going to new residents.

I stil remember my first land 2 years ago. I forgot the name of the sim, but i built a house on it and invited my friend to live there with me. The house (at that time i wasa horrible builder) was 2 room 2 story and used a ramp for the stairs. The walls were 0.5 thick and took up quite a bit of space. LOL

You put a lot of work into that reply Cristalle, that is for dang sure

That being said, you've quoted several very valid points. It's extremely unlikely land will go down much unless LL intentionally attempts to make such happen... As for investment purposes however, there really is no reason for land to increase in price either seeing as a large portion of those entitled to first land were giving up on it even in late December/January. As for stipends? I wouldn't doubt they're the next thing to go. L300 is insignificant and if 1) they reduced the monthly fee to 5USD/month by eliminating stipends or 2) made no modifications other than eliminating stipends -- I see only the potential for larger profits. People pay real money upfront to buy World of Warcraft -- alot of real money... Now, why should SL necessarily be any different?

I think LL wants out of the land business. I think they make so much more money off of the islands for the amount of work that they place into it, it just makes sense for them to want people to rent from the island owners. It makes billing a lot easier for them, plus they have a much better handle on exactly how much a month they will be taking in.

It wasn't being bought by land barons. It was being bought by noobs who thought they could make a quick buck by scamming newbies. Mind you, alts weren't the only problem with first land... Tons of land speculators would TP over to that first land and immediately offer the newbies 3-5k for their parcel which could easily fetch 7k...

All LL was doing in essence was fattening the pockets of these individuals. The newbie was essentially just as screwed as they now cannot even afford a 256sqm parcel in many cases with how much they ended up being ripped off by.