lindens latest blog: dob a neighbour

Griefer attacks on other people's sims, no matter if they involve nazi symbols, giant penises or a swarm of rubber ducks, are completely different from things people do on their own land, within their own group of like-minded people. Griefing is against the TOS, and rightfully so, because griefing means to impose on other people's freedoms.



I did follow you, but your example has nothing to do with freedom of expression. It's not about rapists or BDSM lifestylers who teleport into other people's "ideal world" sim and start to whip their slaves or to slap their girlfriend around. We minorities have already learned to keep our "perverted" roleplay to places owned by ourselves or likeminded people.
It's about people who teleport to a rape-based sim, witness a roleplayed rape scene and try to harm the sim owner by sending abuse reports. That's exactly the behaviour of the nazis who couldn't stand a jewish themed sim. The place was built by people with a different lifestyle / opinion / sexual preference, and no one asked those goons to come and take offense.

By the way, The "general populace" finds a lot of things questionable or immoral. Ask the general populace of the USA how they think about homosexuality; should it be outlawed or not? You might be surprised by the opinion of the majority. That's why, even in a democracy, the majority isn't directly involved in the legislation (which protects the rights of minorities against the majority).

As far as legality is concerned, nothing depicted in SL is illegal in RL. BDSM lifestylers who roleplay a rape scene in their RL bedroom are not commiting a crime. Ageplay isn't illegal in RL as well; if I have my girlfriend dressing up like a schoolgirl, I'm not doing anything illegal. It's roleplay between consenting adults, exactly like the roleplay going on in SL. Plus, it's impossible by default to commit any sexual or violent acts in a virtual world. The law defines a sexual act as getting in contact with another person's genitals, therefore no one ever had sex on the grid.



Like what? Ask the majority what they won't tolerate. Prostitution? Promiscuity? Atheism? As I said, many laws are made to protect minorities from the majority.

And virtual worlds are made to cross the limits that one wouldn't cross in RL. People can safely roleplay a sword-swinging barbarian who decapitates hordes of enemies in a MMORPG, and everyone silently tolerates this act of unspeakable violence. Why? Because it doesn't happen for real. It's only a harmless game.

"There's the King's Messenger. He's in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn't begin until next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all." "Suppose he never commits the crime?" said Alice. "That would be all the better, wouldn't it?" the Queen said.

Alice in Wonderland - Lewis Carroll

I totally agree. In Numbers 31:17-18, Moses commands god's chosen people to kill women and little children, but keep virgins for themselves as spoils of war. Extreme violence, rape and even pedophilia, since girls were married and lost their virginity usually at the age of 14-15 in those times, so those virgins must have been younger.

People are even allowed to sell their own daughters as sex slaves, according to Exodus 21:7-11 (without any age limit). And slaveholders were allowed to beat their slaves to death, as long as they didn't die on the same day they took the beating (Exodus 21:20-21). Sexual violence? No problem. In Judges 19:29, a god-fearing guy goes as far as cutting his concubine into pieces.

So, according to the bible, the "good book", everything going on in SL is just fine. As long as we burn all witches (Exodus 22:1, kill all homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13) and stone all women who engaged in premarital sex to death (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

The bible is still the major source of morals in our society. But if we judge by that blood-smeared book, we have to kill people for working on saturdays. Nothing is more messed up than the biblical morality. Why not use common sense for a change and simply ask "Has any harm been done", before judging something as an offense.

With freedom comes responsibility. It is clear that many residents have been irresponsible and pushed the boundaries far beyond what many people the world over (not just by US standards) would class as acceptable.

Why blame "religious fundamentalists"? Last time I looked there weren't many obviously working for Linden Lab - who, after all, are the only ones that can set the guidelines.

You do realise, of course, that there are no "personal freedoms" guaranteed in Second Life? That we abide by the rules that Linden Lab set, however outrageous they may be or however much we might disagree with them, or suffer the consequences?

Broccoli

Wrong. The CS actually posted on the official web site. says about indecency:

"must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M)"

Now I can understand when it comes to minors of age in RL pics, but what about RL pics of a "rape fantasy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy)?

I'm not a pornography advocate, there are a lot of things I don't like, including BDSM for example, but I live and let live, don't like it and I stay clear from it, end of the story.

I'm against censorship though. I'm not saying that nothing should be censored, but I think that Linden Labs is going a little too far.

Not to mention that soliciting mass abuse reports they are at risk of getting swamped with true and not so true reports.

I may have cut out a lot of quote, but it sums up to this... If it's harmless such games can be safely rated PG... can they? Obviously not. In addition to that, 'Second Life' is regarded by many residents as more than 'just a game', so the limits have to be set differently than where they would be on a multiplayer game of Diablo, for example.

According to the bible references... Yes, I'm aware of them, as well as they belong to the Old Testament as far as I recognize them, where He is depicted as a vengeful rather than a forgiving god. Regardless... there is a reason why the priest skips over the seedier parts of the Bible during sunday's service?

Just becuase one is a furry does NOT automaticaly mean he is involved in questionable sex acts.

Furries does NOT = beastiality.
Furries does NOT = people having sex in animal costumes.
Though it is true SOME peop[le do like having sex in an animal costume MOST furs do not.

Furries DOES = What is a "furry"?
A furry is an anthropomorphic animal character. Some examples of anthropomorphic characters would be cartoon animals featured in animation, such as Bugs Bunny, Scooby Doo, or Donald Duck. Some may also appear as mascots or advertising characters, like McGruff the Crime Dog or the Exxon Tiger. On the other end of the spectrum, furries can be talking animals featured in fairy tales, such as Aesop's Fables or literature, such as Watership Down. Also, actual furry fans themselves are also sometimes referred to as furries.

What is "furry fandom"?
Furry fandom is defined as the appreciation, promotion, and production of stories and art about anthropomorphic animals, as well as the exploration, interpretation and examination of humanity and human values through anthropomorphic expression. This includes works such as animated cartoons, comic books and strips, text stories and articles, artwork, costumes, and stuffed animals.


The Number of furries involved in sexual activity on SL is no diffrent then nonfurs, the typs of sexual activities are no diffrent either. the only difrence is the charectors portreyed are Anthropomorfic.

NOn human avatars is ROLE PLAY, PRETEND, MAKE BELIEVE. that is what SL is about isn't it?

I find blingtards and the chav-esque swathes of the human population in SL to be broadly offensive. Especially their half-wit lollard broads. Something *must* be done! Mass AR's on the grounds of bad taste and lack of imagination! Deport them immediately to the nearest Ratners or Burberry outlet in RL. Burn their computers and rip out their internet connections in order to protect all <cough>right-thinking<cough> people.

"Your world, your imagination" ???

In that case LL *must* implement an imagination test. Any one who fails must be forbidden entrance into SL. Can't have the unwashed masses cluttering up our perfect virtual world. Oh wait.... they buy my stuff which pays the tier on my private island / sim / estate, etc.....

Just becuase one is a furry does NOT automaticaly mean he is involved in questionable sex acts.

Furries does NOT = beastiality.
Furries does NOT = people having sex in animal costumes.
Though it is true SOME peop[le do like having sex in an animal costume MOST furs do not.

Furries DOES = What is a "furry"?
A furry is an anthropomorphic animal character. Some examples of anthropomorphic characters would be cartoon animals featured in animation, such as Bugs Bunny, Scooby Doo, or Donald Duck. Some may also appear as mascots or advertising characters, like McGruff the Crime Dog or the Exxon Tiger. On the other end of the spectrum, furries can be talking animals featured in fairy tales, such as Aesop's Fables or literature, such as Watership Down. Also, actual furry fans themselves are also sometimes referred to as furries.

What is "furry fandom"?
Furry fandom is defined as the appreciation, promotion, and production of stories and art about anthropomorphic animals, as well as the exploration, interpretation and examination of humanity and human values through anthropomorphic expression. This includes works such as animated cartoons, comic books and strips, text stories and articles, artwork, costumes, and stuffed animals.


The Number of furries involved in sexual activity on SL is no diffrent then nonfurs, the typs of sexual activities are no diffrent either. the only difrence is the charectors portreyed are Anthropomorfic.

NOn human avatars is ROLE PLAY, PRETEND, MAKE BELIEVE. that is what SL is about isn't it?

I'm a furry But I have NO intrest in sex, it's not my thing, Should I be banned too just becuase my av is a furry?
Please stop generalizing.

It can't be rated PG, sicne porn can't be rated PG too, even if a porn video is certainly harmless. But that something isn't PG rated doesn't mean it's obscene, bad, evil and a criminal offense. I'm sure you wouldn't live in a PG rated world as well; humanity would soon die out in such a world, not allowed to procreate anymore.

You're right in regards of SL being more a business platform than a game. A business platform like the internet, where no one complains about sexual content. You'll find all sorts of porn on the regular internet, including (roleplayed) rape. Also lots of videos with the word "schoolgirls" in the title, although the actors are of mature age, just like the roleplayers in SL. LL wants to create a 3D internet; the regular internet has shown that IBM and Adidas can peacefully coexist with porn sites.

As for the bible: god was only depicted as a vengeful mass murderer, who decided to drown every woman, child and animal in the world out of a childish temper tantrum? If he isn't really that way, but rather loving and forgiving: did the authors of the OT lie? How can they, if Paul says that every last bit of scripture was inspired by god (2 Timothy 3:16)? Even good ol'Jesus confirms that the old, cruel laws of the OT are still valid and applicable until "heaven and earth pass away" (Matthew 5:1. But I guess a bible discussion is off topic

pfft.

Do we get special badges and gold stars to collect with each successful report?

I'm not spending my precious time ARing other people for being smutty unless there's some serious gold star quotas.

This whole thing is an absurdity. Of course I am 100% against paedophilia but other than that, people should be free to be and do whatever they want. I personally wouldn't participate in a lot of what goes on in SL but I mind my own business.

I am currently digging through the sand to create an underground bunker so I can wear my maid's outfit without fear of being reported and my partner and I can safely have sex.

I have a horrible feeling that this is a precursor to LL allowing teens on the grid; we should resist with all our might, such as it is. Bring out the banners!

I think what your hubby and you do in the privacy of your own RL bedroom is entirely up to your husband and you, as long as it harms no-one and breaks no laws. That's not what this is about.

No, I don't support witch hunts. It isn't necessary to go to that extreme, and I don't think that's what Daniel is encouraging. But regardless of whether you pay for your land, and regardless of how "private" you wish it to be, if someone does happen in upon activity such as he described, and they report it, well - to friggin bad? Somehow, though, I don't think this is a scenario anyone has to really worry about. I suspect that some of this stuff is going on in more "public" places, and that's what they're after.

I saw several blog comments in support of Daniel, and not one of them were mine. I don't do blog comments anymore.

I am talking about SL not RL lol.

So the community rules are not valid any longer? How can you say you don't tolerate it at all and have on the other hand this in your community rules? So, if I have anything broadly offensive on my isle, will you ban me , too?

Where are the rules that are applied now? The last sentence from the quote is definitely showing that it was never forbidden if it was just contained in a mature sim???

yeah. this is surely going to result in a lot of land - and even sims - being put up for sale? Gor sims, certain RP sims (Midian City), etc. Who would want to have that kind of cash invested in SL anymore if their very existence (and all cash, land and posessions) can be snuffed out in an instant thanks to some armchair moralist? at least if you choose to sell up and leave, you can get some of your investment back. not so if you're banned.

i'm anticipating a land price crash over next 4-6 weeks as a result of this because so many themed areas (not just ageplay related anymore) are no longer acceptable. given the link between sex items and the economy (BDSM items are in a grey area at best, completely outlawed at worst), it also wouldn't surprise me if the $L nosedived too.

We should make a SS style LL morality police uniform and hand it out in the welcome area, make sure all new users know they are obligated to abuse report everything that moves (and a few things that dont)

Actually, no. Objecting to the depiction of sexual abuse would seem to me to be far less denigrating to RL victims than, well, the depiction itself.

I don't favor censorship, and I'm not against free expression. I'm disappointed that things have come to be the way the have today. My position is that freedom of expression is not a right within Second Life, but a privilege. The very notion of such freedom is taken over the line when it includes the depiction of sexual offenses involving children, or depiction of rape. This behavior is tasteless beyond words, and reprehensible by any modern moral standard. I could "think about" my "outrageous" statement for a month, not just a few days, and I will *never* abandon my stance on the issue. Freedom of expression is NOT absolute. It has moral boundaries determined by society.

I'm tolerant of many things which I personally dislike. There are a few things however that cross the line, for which I have no tolerance, and no sympathy.

but where is that line? and what right do you have to tell other people where there own line should be drawn.

I've specifically mentioned two instances where that line is clear. And I do not speak individually, but as a member of several distinct societies, whose majority find the activities to be patently offensive. Would you use this same, empty argument to support child abuse or rape in the real world society in which you live? I certainly hope not.

You need to get out more SL != RL

In a virtual world context you are attacking people with thoughts and ideas that you find unacceptable.

I get out plenty, thanks.

I'm not attacking anybody. Virtual or real, I stand with the majority of society who find rape and child sexual abuse unacceptable. This isn't just about me. Quit trying to make it so.

As a Wiccan I shudder to think what this could mean, because LL has just declared a witch hunt! Just like in the old days, peopel will be reporting people they don't like and screaming the virtual equivilant of "witch! witch!".

And also, as a Wiccan, will I now be banned from SL too? Because the "Moral Majority" is offended by us, even though the Supreme Court ruled that Wicca is a valid religion.

Now I really don't like things like Gor, however some do and I respect their right to like it and practice it in a virtual world among consenting adults. There's a few things that offend me, so instead of trying to get them shut down I just don't go there.

What did LL do? sell out to Disney? No, wait they couldn't have... Disney has dwarves and they could be AR's in SL now as child av's. Whatever happened to "Imagined, Created and Owned by it's residents"?

Second Life's new slogan should be changed to "Our World, NO imagination".

well you guys can argue about the bible and whatever you want until you are blue in the face. And try to tell me what i can and cannot think or dream or feel or whatever you are trying to control. Meanwhile im gonna ignore you. ignore your rules. Do whatever the hell i please. Follow my own moral compass. Did you hear that? i am not worried or gonna waste my energy jumping through hoops for you or your bug ridden platform. If my actions coexist happily with the ToS thats great. If not thats great too. I dont like having my mind and my thoughts and my dreams bullied into the shape you find acceptable. You have your own mind, thoughts and dreams for that. Hands off mine. You are not given permission and youre not welcome. its not even open for discussion.