Group disbanded = land and money lost :(

I created a group, deeded 2048 sq/m of land (100USD) to it and started building on this land.
Was so occupied, that I forgot to invite the other people joining the group. Then the group disappeared after 48h, because I was single subscriber. And the land is gone with it. Linden's refuse to restore the land property and I lost my 100USD.
Can't believe it's so easy to spoil people in SL, but it's a fact.
Be aware.
Regards

This is a major flaw, I think when groups are disbanded all the land that was donated should be returned to the origional owner. Out of curiosity, why did you deed the land to a group that you were the sole member of rather than just keep the land in your own name?

However, I must say if you spent $100 USD on 2048 sqm of land you got MAJORLY ripped off. It is so not worth that much!

That's a little harsh... $100 USD for 2048 sqm is not that bad.

$100 = L$27,000 (approx)

L$27000 / 2048 = 13.2 per sqm

I've sold a 7680 plot for 22.5 per sqm.

It's true land is cheaper now, but a few months ago, it was not.

My land cost more than that 4 months ago but nearby land for sale presently is more than that anyway.

Great shame the OP lost his land - Group land should revert to original owner!

The land should not revert to the original owner, I say. If a group is forcibly disbanded because there is only one member, then that one member should get the land.

mebbe but in the OPs case comes to the same thing

Way to add insult to injury... yeesh!

Reason why a simple solution like this needs to be thought through carefully: group owner and multiple members --> members donate land --> evil owner boots out all other members --> group gets forcibly disbanded --> land goes to evil owner.

Perhaps a good solution then would be to say that a group cannot be disbanded if it holds property? Or group members cannot be ejected if they've donated land (unless their ejection also means the land is 'ejected' with them and returns to their posession?)

-Atashi

The problem with that solution is that enables people to form a "group" of just one person, donate their tier, and get a land bonus. If there's no penalty for staying with the single person status, then the group will never be enlarged.

I'm sure there is no perfect solution. But having a citizen be 'robbed' of his land because of an automated group process seems to me as the greater of the two evils.

How about at the very least, extend the timeframe before the group is disbanded to twice what it is now, and at the current 'deadline' time, automatically send both an IM and email to the sole group member warning them that they have X hours left before the group is disbanded.

-Atashi

(edited because spelling counts)

Or make it so that you can't deed land to a group with only 1 person in it..

edit: there should also be a system to notify the last person in the group when the 2nd-to-last-person leaves the group. Some kind of "Danger, Will Robinson! Group land will go away soon!!" thing.

Of the few ones I know of, it took a while, but they did regain their land.

Did you use Help Request and a Linden answered, but told you they couldn't help you and you needed to email support? If so, that is simply the proper way to go about it.

The only case where Lindens would refuse is in the case of land on a private sim, in which case you simply need to talk to the sim owner and have them reclaim the land.

And this is different from creating a free alt and making it a group member how?

I suspect the rule about having more than one in the group came before LL opened up registrations..

Like this is a huge problem? They can also just add an alt and add the alt to the group. Or find one friend. Frankly, I think that if the group owns property, the group owner should at least be notified and given 7 days to respond before the land is reclaimed.

It's a terrible policy to simply reclaim the land owned by the group over a simple mistake like this. I hope LL does something to fix this.

Thanks for the warning. The moral is, if you're deeding land to a group, be sure to get a permanent second member first! You might want to create an alt just to be safe.

The evil owner could just as easily sell the land out from under the group members, including selling it to himself for L$1. You have to be able to trust the owner of a group; he always has absolute power over anything the group owns.

LOL. You're right, much simpler. I'd make a terrible evil owner of a group.

it is that bad...anything more than $7/sqm is a rip off. I don't care what land is "going for on the market currently" $100 USD for a space that holds less than 500 prims is a rip off. Just because you can sell land for 22.5 per sqm doesn't mean that you should!

I've heard enough of you complain about land prices, Musicteacher... Just because it's too expensive for you, doesn't give you the right to make people feel bad about buying land at the current MARKET PRICE. Plus, if the land was waterfront, that was a good deal...

Edit: Not only did this person lose their land, but now they have to deal with you telling them they got ripped off?? What's your problem??

At least an alt does come from a separate account. That may not make much of a practical distinction when the two accounts are held by the same person, but without that distinction, slim as it may be, there isn't any difference between an indivudal and a single member group.

Obviously, the whole group concept probably could use some revamping to prevent this kind of abuse of the system. I've been toying with the idea of creating a group for my main and alt, donating all their tier, and then buying an extra 1024 of land covered by the bonus. It feels a bit shady, but it is perfectly "legal" given the current rules.

Even without land in the balance, however, I would never create a group without an alt to join it with me. It's just too risky, given that other members could go poof at any minute and take the group down with them. At the very least, dealing with all the dang "set to group" permissions would be a pain.

I'm really sorry for the OP, but by his own admission he forgot to take care of the most critical backup for a group (getting another member) even though he had deeded a substantial property to that new group. This is akin to forgetting to pay your island rent and losing that land, despite your initial "purchase" price.

It sucks that it happened, but it was wholly preventable. And from what I've read on the forums just since I've joined, with a little due dilegence the land can usually be recovered.

This is shocking! Usually they are so good with customer relations.




Yes, the ongoing theme of "I'm not paying until it's back at a fair price like it was when there were 300,000 residents" is getting old to me too. This is always followed by "I will laugh when LL causes the market to crash and the barons are left holding their overpriced land."

Look, I want gas to go below $2. I want to never have lag or to crash again. But I also have to face reality. And the reality is, LL can only bring land prices down so much, and it ain't going to be to $7 a meter for any sustained period of time again. Ever.

I bought when land was probably near at or near the highest price, and I don't feel ripped off. I knew what I was doing and why. I was paying the price of impatience! I wanted land and plenty of prims and I wasn't in the mood to wait for some hypothetical time in the future when the price might drop.

At no time did I consider this expense to be an "investment", and since I'm in for the long haul, the land tier I'm paying will soon overshadow a few dollars difference in the L$/m ratio. And I'm aware that there is a strong possibility that I may never recover more than a portion of my expense, and even an outside chance I'll never get any of it back.

Meanwhile, I'm having fun. Lots of fun. And THAT is what I'm really paying for.

It is no secret that you are a land dealer so of course you don't want me telling people that they are paying too much for land. I'm just letting them know that next time they purchase land they can question prices and they can request lower prices and they can hold off until they find someone willing to charge them for what it is worth.

Please don't turn this into me being the bad guy here. You are the one defending YOUR outlandish land prices. Make me look like the bad girl for educating people on their options and that they don't HAVE to pay market prices, play sympathetic to the OP hoping to make land dealers look like the good guys.

It's too expensive for a lot of people but they don't think they have any choices. Land prices would return to a more reasonable level if the BUYERS would refuse to pay the prices asked and request what is more reasonable.

Let me ask you the same though...what is YOUR problem? Why do you attack me every time I inform people that land prices are outlandish and that they should request lower prices next time?? Looks like fear to me!



I just think it is such a shame that someone has to be willing to lay down a hundred dollars or more just to get a decent chunk of land. Yes, I miss the days when there were 300,000 residents...I miss them dearly. I miss when people in this virtual world used to do things to help others, used to share scripts freely, used to be able to fly up to someone and start a conversation without being ejected and banned. Bigger is not always better and in this case it most certainly is not. SL has turned into a bunch of people just trying to make a buck...it used to be such a nice world where people could work together toward something and not worry about who might cheat them out of the profit.

So the land barons won't let the prices go lower because it is all about how much money you can make. Just curious, how much of the land sold daily goes to end-users? I just don't get the mentality that it is ok to keep raising prices purely because you want to make more money? I mean at least in the real world, most of the time, prices go up because the cost to make the products goes up or because taxes are raised. There is no excuse for the huge hike in price that took place last year. That happened purely because you all COULD raise prices that high...again I say, that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I really really wish there was a way to separate the capitalists from those just wanting to relax and enjoy a second life...

So Rockwell, relax and just ignore me. You can sugar coat your business all you want I will still say that prices are too high. Freedom of speach man! When I talk about land prices I don't single anyone out, I don't say that YOU Rockwell charge too much for land, I keep it general. I am a bit offended by your personal attack.

Really, the price of the land should not, and does not matter.

Have you e-mailed [email]support@secondlife.com[/email]? They should be able to get you your land back to you. Anyone in world does not have that power, but support should. They have been able to get money that was left in a group back in the past, I can't see land being any different. Just e-mail them and see what they say. But be nice, it is always good to be nice.