$10k R/L dollars to START at the electric sheep co?

Sounds too good to be true

You think so? US$10,000 to start sounds pretty low to me. That comes out to US$5.00 per hour...

I don't think most of the best builders charge that much! Just my opinion. But if you build very,very slowly I suppose it would come out to be about $5/hour LOL

I agree with Fred! I did this in about 3 hours total time during rl coffee breaks. But I think it highly reasonable to charge a lot for it because I really need the tuition money!

http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=105767&sort=Pictures.PictureID+desc&Name=Margot+Abattoir

ITs a pretty low salary. even in mcdonalds you get more.
my 2 cents

IMMEDIATELY

I can't believe the money you guys SOAK your customers! Most builders could get similar work done for less than HALF that!! Try caffeine or a good night's rest. It might speed up your build and cost your customers less money.

To all SL/RL business interests: $10,000 as a starting salary to do a sim is ridiculous. Please shop around and DONT believe everything an 'expert' says. There are many humble but talented designers here. EXPLORE and you'll find them. Whoever got bilked for that 10k build got taken to the cleaners royally!

I think you should research what Electric Sheep company is, then you might understand. From their homepage:

"The Electric Sheep Company offers solutions for virtual world commerce, creativity, and community. See our portfolio, visit our virtual marketplace, read what others are saying, and check out our growing team of designers, developers, and strategists.

Second Life is our primary platform for creating interactive environments, experiences, games, and applications. We also work in There.com and are exploring Google Earth, Multiverse (where we are beta developers) and other emerging platforms.

We see the Web evolving to support an ecosystem of metaverse applications. If your creative plans involve the intersection of virtual worlds, games, avatars, simulation, user-creation, shared social spaces or 3D construction, The Electric Sheep Company is here to help."

http://www.electricsheepcompany.com/index.php

not another wordy, VAGUE ad!!

They offer solutions alright. About how to overcharge people ! Think the PLATFORM is EMERGING as shaky as it INTERACTS with the ECOSYSTEM at the moment! LOL. WHERE do you guys GET this stuff?

We're talking RL companies being taken to the cleaners as the guys HERE put prims together to make a pretend mini world for them. AINT THAT HARD. Wait til they get wind of the FACT that MANY people build/set up a sim better for LESS!

'k

But the worst thing of all was mentioning that ad. And that I didn't do! Hehehe. Well, they get an 'A' for trying to 'sound' like they do something difficult and important.

but not your last, kyela


Now, I think I'll get my platform out of here!

It wasn't an ad, it was from their homepage. Electric Sheep Company is an RL business basically, doing work for RL companies. RL businesses have overheads and have to pay people's wages. Game money doesn't do that. They can offer service and professionalism above and beyond what a hobbyist or someone playing a 'game' can. It goes beyond messing with a few prims.

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Yes, the Sheep Co. charges quite a bit... $10,000, rl money, especially if that's only their starting rate! If they take so long to do the sim that even half that amount leads to a sorry hourly rate, perhaps they aren't the right builders? I've been known to take my time too. But to charge the customer because you're slow? Well, I've known plumbers and cab drivers who've done that, yes

The Sheep Co. *understands* that companies will pay a great deal for services IF they do *not* know of less expensive and possibly BETTER alterntative sources. (hi damian )I agree. So, it's up to OTHER business groups to get their own message out to these RL enterprises, and let excellence win. The Sheep Company's work is professional, passable, and sometimes excellent. There are some builders out there who are ALWAYS EXCELLENT. And cost way less then the Sheepsters, while still commanding an extremely nice RL salary/wage.

I can tell you right now...I have been a *bit longer* in sl than Chie, but would rather say, that is it your aesthetic sense, not SL tenure that makes you a good just of art/design/builds. The newbie who was questioning the value of the Sheepwork may have an aestetic sense that's off the charts. How would anyone know otherwise. Trust me, looking at purple dance clubs in SL does not finely hone your sense of proportion, hue, etc. And, from what I read, the person was not referring to hobbyist pay when she suggested a lower rate Besides, lower rates and being a hobbyist here do not a good pair make. You build something. YOU get paid. And comparably to those in your skill level. That's IT.

I can tell you that companies DO care about the expenses they incurr upon advertising and using new 'platforms'. They *trust* representatives of companies with whom they form a partnership for referrals when they request services. That does not mean that the referrals are done in a fair or honest way. Simply that they will most likely satisfy the needs of the client. After reading this thread very carefully, I've decided companies would be wise to seek out MORE THAN ONE design, e-commerce group in SL to compare rates and expertise.

The Sheep Co. does passable work and gets impressive money and clients by a wonderful route called advertising and networking...and hard work. Their ads are polished, so much so, that they are a bit vague, I agree. For all anyone knows they could be setting up a 3-D online advertising or conferencing space for a company in a virtual world. NOT that you'd guess that from the ad But it shines and LOOKS good. They hold tech-focused events that are a bit thin, but do draw attention to them, to their presence. That's great for business. Their networking is done ostensibly through HAVING this group. So MAKE YOUR OWN group...and follow suit, if you admire their success.

SHOULD they charge $10k real money as a base rate? That's between the cusomers and the artist to decide. And NO one else.

I'm a hobbyist as was the guy who did that Achilles in the background of your LESSON for today. And I make good RL money at it. And damn well deserve it too. This ain't just throwing together a bunch of prims, pal. Let's see a self-proclaimed 'professional' prim twister do half as well.

YOU think some of these lamers who call themselves professional builders in SL design well? Either you haven't seen some of their garbage or you create the garbage yourself--and market it. You think a company is going to have YOU do my kind or any kind of design work for them because you don't have a day job and you call yourself 'Fade Inc' in SL? Only if you hype the hell out of your plywood boxes, m'boy

http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=105767&sort=Pictures.PictureID+desc&Name=Margot+Abattoir

*PAYABLE ONLY THROUGH PAYPAL AT A RIDICULOUSLY HIGH PRICE*

Postscript: I love u Femme!

Margot, I read your post the first time round, I think you missed what exactly Electric Sheep Company is. They have about 15 full-time employees (so it's not about how much time the have to take to build something), and they're not just involved with Second Life.

They're not just charging for a build, that is only part of what they do. They develop whole strategies and projects for companies wishing to participate in virtual worlds. It's not about whether there are better builders, because there may be, it's about the whole service they provide.

The podcast I linked to earlier really is worth listening to.

I'm really not sure what I did to deserve this attack, or that title. I think you may have misinterpreted what I said, my intent and who I am. You're mistaking having a view on a subject, with being the subject. I'm not dismissing hobbyists, I am one, and one who has done his fair share of custom work, I make decent RL money too. I wasn't dismissing building as "throwing some prims around", I am a builder, that was intended to counter earlier posts that seemed to dismiss the value of building. To me, they were just saying it was just "throwing some prims around'. You'd be hard pressed to find someone with more respect for building than me. I'm simply saying, they have the resources for offering an expanded service, beyond what someone like me can offer. That doesn't demean what I, or you, can offer.

I am not involved with Electric Sheep in any way, I don't make it, I don't market any of it, I don't call myself "Fade Inc", I'm not doing anything of that nature, I'm not a "self-proclaimed professional", so you're attacking the wrong person. I was just trying to show people what Electric Sheep is about, from the resources that are available. I was trying to help people get information, like this forum is supposed to be for.

I do have a job, SL is my hobby, ok?

You are the first person I've ever AR'ed for something that has been said to me. There was just no need for that.

If your sole RL income is based on what happens in SL, then you are a professional.

Everyone else is a hobbyist, doing it part time, either for fun or for supplementary income.

If you have a real job, and make an extra $5,000 a year from SL, you're in the same grade as a newbie who makes their first prim chair and manages to sell three from a vendor in 6 months.

Just because the ESC are 'professionals' it doesn't automatically mean they are the best. Their only advantage is they have people, and the time. I juggle a real job, several other games, responsibilities on Stratics, AND play SL for fun and pleasure.

When you have big companies like MTV, they have the money to throw at someone else to do their work in SL. Can you imagine the CEO of MTV sitting down and trying to learn building their in-world presence? Of course not; they just give someone else the job of doing it. Subcontracting what you can't do is all part of the big business world.

ESC's only real advantage is that their website is full of marketing hype, buzzwords and distilled achieveables that mean nothing in the real world, but glaze over the eyes of executives and that's what they are impressed by. They provide a service that people are looking for, in the most visible way, and due to their close ties with LL, business gets pushed their way instead of the companies looking to see what else is available. I'd be more than happy to take on a large building job for someone, but I don't advertise because I can't necessarily work to someone else's deadline - and rush jobs are usually bad ones. If someone wants me to build something and I have a month to do it, no problem. Need it by 4pm tomorrow? Forget it.

Is the Stratics HQ I built in Rosieri the best and most impressive building in SL? Of course not. Is it neat, practical, and suitable for the purpose? Exactly. Therefore it has achieved exactly what I set out to do. I'm learning all the time, improving my techniques, and SL is all the better for it.

Several people have been surprised by what I've squeezed in on about 8000 sq m of land, and that's a talent that not everyone has. Low prim building is also a talent that not everyone has.

I'll tell you another thing. How many of these real world companies coming to SL actually bring a benefit to our world? Sure, you might want your avatar to be walking round in overpriced branded clothing or shoes - but what does the company bring, apart from a bit of money which is an absolute bargain in the normal corporate advertising budget. I have yet to see one positive thing bought to SL by any real life corporation.

Lewis

Yes, I think that many of the sheep people may be Linden Lab alts or friends/succubi ( So I guess that's why they called themselves 'sheep'?)

But there are many businesses coming online now, and I personally know at least 2 people who I KNOW are not Linden alts that have achieved a fair amount of success at obtaining RL contracts. So, yes, I think that the SHEEP may be lamers in this respect, but that the opportunities are still out there! Just have to go for it!

And, BTW, your Lewis Nerd 'brand' just has to be pushed. Get the electric sheep marketing bunch on your side and we'll probably be seeing you on CNBC next week

I guess my name is 'well known'.... but the only 'push' most people want to give me is off the nearest tall building.

Lewis

Have heard ONLY good things about you, Lewis, from your exploring the less well known builds and venues here, to your own building talent!

So hang in there...SL is just going through growing pains, inclusive of RL businesses beta-testing the waters Join some SL chambers of commerce, get your website going and have your sister answer the phones at Linden Lab's marketing/developer's department, and you should do just fine!

BTW, the Linden Lab company has a developers group that one can join, if you trust them enough to show you the full deck of cards when RL business calls them for builds etc. Try that. If you feel that they are stacking the deck of opportunity for some reason, tell them so and/or ask the pointed questions. You may however, get ejected from the game, or frozen if you persist in those questions however. (Wasn't ME) True. Take care, Lewis!

You obviuosly don't get out much....

One small problem with your plan - I don't have a sister. However, I am more than capable of answering telephones, it's been part of every job since I left school.

One of my main concerns about 'commericalisation' of SL, especially from a resident's point of view, is that the more you tie up your online time in making money, or making things to make money, the less time you have to actually enjoy yourself. I, for one, do not want that to happen. I'm here for pleasure - my day job is someting I do because I have to; and it's a lot more stable than SL could ever dream of being. The organisation started in 1835 and is still going strong, so I don't see it suddenly crashing and losing everything, like SL could at any time.

Lewis

Most of the people I deal with from the customer base in sl are just on to make money. How many clubs can you go to, how many classes?

It's a huge myopic bore, yes.

But with the *new* element of RL businesses bringing in RL money, to a demographic from which they'll benefit (dragons and people with feathers between gluteal folds), it's made my SL more work than entertainment. And on my free time. So, yes. It's not a good thing in that respect. But am passing the torch to a guy who still has a few more years left to earn a bit of REAL money for his tuition, so, hey. Life goes on.But I try not to be a downer to the noobs by saying that too much. Rather I say 'your experience will change as you stay in SL'.

.... and that is the base of SL's major problem. All the advertising is based around money, to the exclusion of everything else.

Those who are here to make money far far outweigh those who are here to spend it. There is a finite market for any product, however good, and as soon as someone brings along a better or cheaper equivalent, people go for that. Much of it is even down to simple snobbery, like people saying "I have a Chip Midnight skin" in the same tone that they might say they have a pair of Jimmy Choo shoes. Chip Midnight skins cost L$5000 because they are good - they are not good simply because they cost L$5000.

Too many people get bogged down into making money and forget that there is fun to be had in SL exploring and doing stuff. Yesterday, I bought a miniature railway kit in SL and spent most of the day setting it up. I've had dozens of friends over to see it, all having fun simply sitting on a little scripted thing and going round and round a circuit. I'd much rather do that than sit back biting my nails wondering if I will manage to sell the 1000 widgets a month I need to cover the inflated tier I had to buy to get a bigger store to try and out-do the competition.

And yes, the train is free, although I have put a jar out for donations.

Lewis