Second Life Sued For Allowing Sale Of Impostor Virtual Goods

You're conflating two orthogonal concepts:

1. The implementation details of the creation tools.

2. Who is allowed to perform the act of creation.

The capability you're talking about is the second of these. The first is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether the creation process takes place outside and import is restricted, or it takes place inworld and the ability to use the tools is restricted.

Including, I'm sorry to say, the cost of tier payments. Even if LL were to somehow win this case it's still going to cost them plenty, and I don't believe for one second that the plaintiffs will be paying every last penny of LL's costs to defend themselves. This isn't going to be cheap either, I don't expect. Of course if LL loses the costs are going to be even worse.

Guess who is going to be paying LL's expenses related to this? Sure LL has to pony up the initial layout of cash, but in the long run it is everybody who actually pays money to LL who will be paying the real costs of this lawsuit.

So I hope you enjoy paying the costs that will inevitably result from this lawsuit unless you are using Second Life entirely for free.

LL has a good legal staff they pay for already. How will paying for a legal staff they already pay increase costs? I'm pretty sure LL's general counsel knows how to file a motion to dismiss on whatever grounds and let the process roll into the multi year slow exchange of legal papers between the plaintiff's lawyer and LL's General Counsel. Of course were LL to expedite the content management roadmap elements that might make a difference and change position in a few areas to make sure the people writing ripper clients know, by way of extreme negative rl circumstances happening to them, their time here is over then this entire situation may come to an early "settlement" that costs little.

People used to call me chicken little. lol there sure are a lot of chicken littles around this topic. Perhaps the issue for some is they can see someone got serious and that is going to cascade down into SL and mess up a lot of ripper's days so they are upset because their free ride is ending. Or not. Nobody can predict how this will turn out.

Having RL information on file only means anything if content creators are suddenly willing to actually do something with it. Noone is anonymous today either: if you don't have payment info on file then LL still has your IP addie and your ISP has your RL information (yes there are exceptions, but in the majority of the cases it holds true).

In the end the only use for real life information would be to make sure that someone who gets banned stays banned rather that just grabbing a new avie. Any RL threat is non-existant because noone (Stroker aside) is prepared to make the effort to protect their IP in real life.

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Aside from that: if only content creators can build anything of any kind then there might be a significantly reduced demand for land.

Whenever I visit friends there end up being things on their land that they created, even if it's something as silly as a flat prim textured as a picture to hang on a wall or modifying something they bought to fit their own style or taste, but in most cases it tends to be more than that.

On my own homestead the majority of content is things I've bought, but at the same there's also plenty of tidbits I built from scratch, usually because I couldn't quite find the right thing to put there to buy.

I probably wouldn't give up all of my land, but I'd certainly loose most of my interest in decorating (buying new furniture or new random things to redecorate probably accounts for about half of my shopping) if nothing can be modified or if I can't add an entirely personal touch here and there.

Just because it's a virtual world where the main economic drive is playing dress-up with your avie doesn't mean many people will be fond of living in a Barbie house with only "Mattel-sanctioned" props and no personal touches allowed.

Like the wise, old, grey, visionary, first investor, early biz coach of Philip Rosedale, mentor and "helping to think things through"<-----his own words)-man, kind of co-owner or board-member since 2000, Mitch Kapor said at 5SLB in his historical but from nearly no one noticed keynote (since LL's keynotes are mostly hot air with no fundament):

"This environment brings up the good, the bad and the ugly in us". (He meant us, - logical...incl. our good, bad and ugly money, time, efforts, creativity and thoughts)

Only the "through-thinker" has forgotten to help Phillip Rosedale to think through and to implement fitting tools and fitting procedures to prevent the inflation of the bad and ugly pieces of human characters which have a tend to copy things since exact the *stone-age*.

Ah, not only stone age. We're copying ourself with every birth. It seems, copying is a principle of nature. Or how do young eagles learning to fly? Copying the moves of the wings of their parents?

Somehow all football arenas are all the same basic arena architecture since Athen. Also golf courses looking very similar and: cars...-even condoms and gloves, hahaha and not to forget: the human moves while, ahm, you know...(there is literally nothing new under the sun for anatomical and biological reasons)

This thing, SL, is so alpha, beta, gamma, delta, whatever, only it is *not* thought through. The only thing which works absolutely perfect each month is the billing process - this - the billing process is so very perfect copied from professional services of all sorts that we have to admire LL for the perfection with which they copied the skills to implement such a perfect billing process. This they thought so very excellent through and through and through in all possible x-y-z-axis-ways and forth and back and vice-versa, that it brings up mountains of dollar-notes every day for them, while we are still filling their "sims" with goods, ourselfs and the content of our pockets.

Sometimes per minute, I have the impression, this is the lonely only thing they thought through: how to let us fill up this "virtual world" with everything and anything - plus money - and in exchange we get: hmmm? how to express it softly and smooth and PG: bills and results which are *not* thought through, especially if it circles around *our* creativity and economy the processes are all, - but *not* thought through.

Very early the customers started to think things through and sended all possible "Heurekas" over to the Lab. In forums, in blogs, in IMs, Notecards, mails and in OH's.

As we would be a Million Mitch Kapor's plus a few hundred Einstein's and several Rockefeller's.

Didn't work. They (LL) have still no well briefed staff to enforce their 50 000+ rules ( or so) and other obligations, not enough staff and not well equiped staff (you know: rich people have a tend to parsimony...especially if it is just so very easy to get rich through us), no time, no tools, no ideas, no tech, no nothing, to enforce the goods and to prevent the bads.

Only kind of erotic they managed to prevent, hide and censor to death, as if that would be the most important step to do now and if that would be the "bad and ugly" in us.

Result: someone took the new education spirit of the Lab serious and starts now a major education offensive in direction LL.

Classroom for LL will be a court and the teacher will be a judge.

Theme is: "how to serve a paying customer base perfect"

If that helps = ok. If not, nothing is lost (and nothing is won) and all will stay like before.

Beside all speculations about the maybe possible side-motivations of the 2 people/the plaintiffs:

Someone had to start to talk serious to LL and I think it is necessary, now, after 6 years amteurish behavior in everything by LL (except the billing process).

Until a result we can lift legs high, equiped with comfy amounts of popcorn and coke and waiting on the results.

Waiting on results is so or so our main activity since ages and since SL is alpha/beta, anything and everything, but not thought through.

The leading beta, amateurish virtual world with the leading professional billing process.



or:

I believe the first is linked. A simple script in SL can copy someone's no-copy build very easily, if it is mod, and even for those without any basic scripting skill it can be done manually (if you have been on the OSGrid you will know that most of the avis there from SL bring all their avatar shape numbers with them to recreate their shape in Opensim). Other inworld tools can access the UUIDs of textures. That cannot happen if the build is on the original creator's hard-drive, and there are no inworld tools to inspect or edit builds.

Here's a test: produce a cube, texture the six sides with different textures, and make the permissions anything you like. Within 2 mins I will produce an exact replica, with no 3rd party tools whatsoever. Then, come to BMO and you try to do the same with any object there.

Rock

Uh-uh.

Not if you can't create or edit prims if you're not verified (#2).

I don't believe that is the case Kitty. The professional copier does use alts, with throw-away email addresses, and hide their IP addresses behind proxies, or use internet cafes, or the local library, or their school computers. There was a whole section on remaining totally anonymous on the Patriotic Nigras website (those who griefed SL, flying penises etc, and Copybot distribution fame).

Having verifiable RL information on all who are allowed to create will work, IMHO. Bans need to be on real people, not on anonymous avatars. It is just too easy nowadays.

Rock

creating content is not the same as selling it. Having a limit on free accounts in terms of L$ transactions could be the only way to prevent some theft. But some of the worst rippers are premium accounts and they operate in plain view so whatever. None of these ideas will work IMHO. The only way to slow a thief is to affect them in real life somehow be it financial or incarceration. And then they will just keep right on doing it again as soon as they get another chance to.

You know I think forcing RL info to be attached to creator accounts is a terrible idea.

Because I don't trust LL to properly investigate an AR or DMCA before using the banhammer. Because I don't believe griefer groups and nasty competitors wouldn't notice LLs tendency to react without investigating, Because I believe alot of innocent people will be banned and all subsequent appeals ignored. Some of these people might even find themselves dealing with court costs to PROVE their innocence all because the information got cheap and easy to get.

Mind you my AV is old enough to have always had information attached to it. So changing that really doesn't change anything for me.

The only way to REALLY slow down the theft imho involves alot of different things.
1. LL has to aggressively act on DMCAs
2. Content creators have to be willing to take it to the next step regardless of cost
3. The permissions system needs a complete overhaul. (Too many problems with on too many levels)

That is true to a degree, but I can already think of at least one way around that (contact me in PM if you wish to explore that off-list), but offworld building is a double whammy to the potential copier. With no inworld inspection or editing modes the ability to copy is already severely curtailed, and is non-trivial. Add to that the ability of the grid owner to identify in RL terms any person who uploads ripped content, and who makes a declaration during the registration process for the assets, that he has all rights to those assets and its components, puts him in a very precarious legal position, that I believe will deter even the most ardent of copiers.

Rock

Is it currently the case that when someone lodges a DMCA complaint against another resident, that LL automatically bans or suspends that other resident?

Of course, if LL were to react to this latest court case, and make a determined effort to protect IP on their grid, that would entail not only measures to reduce copying, but also measures to prevent abuse of the system and the use of DMCA as a griefing tool. Of course, that would require someone at LL to sit down and actually think these matters through, and take concerns such as yours into account. Hmmm, on second thoughts...

Rock

I havent read the whole 14-15 pags yet (Im only at page 5 so far). I think your confusing this case wich is about IN-WOLRD copying and reselling to the new implemention by LL taken against creators that copy RL trademark goods and selling them in world. Like Disney, Hello Kitty, Starwars, various car brands etc etc.

Two different cases. If LL wants to go down the route of attrackting RL they cant have mases of illigal copies of those around SL

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On a different but similar note in general (not directed at Argent) I think people needs to:

1. look at facts (like the official court documents)
2. stop confusing Strokers former lawsuit against the person that copied his things and sold them under his protected name. This is an entirely different lawsuit (granted they might bring up the old one in court as evidenceand and rightly so)
3. dont confuse the protection LL is making for RL companies trademarks with inworld creators (like I stated above)
4. realise that this is a nessasary step. The copying and reselling has gone out of control. Its killing the once so flowing creativity and creators are leaving Sl due to this fact.
5. It isnt as if this is a problem that has just arisen, its been going on for years and years and has now (as said) spun out of control. Creators have been asking/ begging LL to help with these problems but they havent been heard and now two people that has the ability / cash to do something about it has taken matter in to their own hands.

Sorry for bad spelling, Im a bit tired at my end.

LL is way ahead of you there Maelstrom, That has already been added to the XStreets rules and they are pulling things down as we speak. This has been debated at length on the old xStreet forums. Dont quote me on it but its been announced at least 3 months ago if not longer. Also if you look at some trasscripts the LL XStreet staff was asked if they were thinking of implementing it inworld also. Dont look now but I belive that is the plan even if that is gonna be hard to police.

I've thought of several ways around it, but none of them prevent associating a real-life identity with a responsible person.

You're enamored of a particular "easy solution", but it's really just an implementation detail.

If LL try to raise tiers in the middle of a world wide recession.....it will shoot itself in the foot big time! You might not be privy to this....but SIMs are already being placed for sale at the rate of knots!
Raise the tiers....and you'll get mass dumping of SL land, which then places Estate Owners in a precarious position ...as it probably does already!.

The smart move would have been for LL to reduce tiers right across the board as it would have stimulated an already flagging SL economy (both land & content). It would have lead to an increase in land take-up all the way down the food chain...yes even those ickle 512 sqm plots.
I believe that with the correct optimal pricing LL would have more sims on the grid and more occupancy on Mainland Continents which in turn leads to more overall Tier income for LL (e.g by reducing Tiers by 15-20%). A missed opportunity i think!

I think it is a great idea, myself. It would be even better if the content itself was digitally signed in some way.



When it comes to legal matters around IP protection, they *have* to get it right, otherwise, they increase the risk of being sued over their mistakes, just like they are being sued for doing too little.

Therefore, I trust them to properly investigate ARs, and especially DMCA notices, before taking action. If they don't, and ban me on the basis of bad information, I'll appeal it, and if they act intransigent, I'll have my attorney appeal it, and then the courts themselves if that fails.

It is not hard to follow the law in this case. If someone files a false DMCA, and LL doesn't have any evidence themselves to filter it out and not honor it, then, at most, my content will be unavailable for a couple weeks after I file a counter-notice. Then, the original filer and I get to slug it out in court.

People aren't going to knowingly file spurious/false DMCA notices; the amount of legal trouble one can get into for it far exceeds any value in doing so.

Since copyright is natural, it behooves people to attach their RL identity to it in some way, so they can prove it is theirs if the question of copyright ownership ever comes up. Either via a corporation/proprietorship, or their personal identity, it only serves to help real content creators. It can only hurt those who intend to infringe.

The nice thing about "no transfer without ID / signature" is that most people won't have to bother, since they are only here to play, buying other people's stuff, or making their own for themselves.



#1 and #2 definitely. If LL properly followed the law when it comes to DMCA notices, we would likely see much less illicit content on the grid, not only because they would be removing it, but it would be more of a deterrent to those who are doing it, since they wouldn't have a very long window to profit from their illegal activities before LL punted them, took their L$, and deleted their content.

As for #3, what we need is more identification of ownership in the content. A digital signature, license information, copyright ownership, etc. More information thus makes it easier for even casual users to spot and report frauds, and they have every incentive to do so. The more infringing content someone pays good money for that disappears from their inventory when LL discovers it and removes it, the more they will be upset that they lost both their money and their goods.

The permissions system is getting additional features LL called "sticky licenses" (ewww)
This was described in the content management roadmap blog articles.
How the heck LL can roll that out without a major disruption and data corruption is an interesting question.

ALTER TABLE ASSETS ADD COLUMN LICENSE VARCHAR;

The asset system isn't a database (which you already know). the DDL you listed applies to the inventory data model. Actually that is an interesting discussion albeit somewhat off topic. LL must alter every xml record in the asset file system where assets reside to add the sticky license element. This is where I see things getting "sticky" for LL since they need to be adding the default license they stated that includes no interop/intergrid transport rights.
Unless, of course, all that stuff about the asset system being LL's home grown xml structure and it resides on a high performance file system is wrong.

No... I'm upset about all this because it could very well translate to a major increase in my rent - or worse, having to find a new place to live because the owners of the sim that I love on which I live will no longer be able to pay their tier. I don't give a rat's ass about these "rippers", and I firmly believe that anyone who engages in content theft deserve what they get - NOT the rest of us who play by the rules.

I was being sarcastic.

If they do, it's only because they've got a problem with their DOM.

That's already in the ToS, so all they need to do is display a default message where it's missing.

Thank you for proving that, even when a possible technical hurdle is submitted for evaluation, that making changes to the system to better support content licensing are in fact rather trivial.

Yes, they are. There's a LOT of trivial changes that could be made that would improve all kinds of things in SL, and this is one of them.