I need wise advice from real adults

There's a difference between condoning something and acknowledging that it will always be there.

I, personally, stayed away from any adults trying to hang out with us teenagers (in 1993) because I thought any adult trying to be down with kids was either a huge dork or just creepy.

What would me reporting them have done? Make it so I couldn't hang out with my friends and probably get my parents to be as alarmist and paranoid as the people advocating snitchery in SL...a MUCH SAFER bad environment for children.

And what would have happened once that creepy adult was removed from the situation? The kids would go elsewhere for their drugs and whatnot.

There also was the fact that these enabling adults were sometimes my friends' parents. They were of the school of thought that "if they're gonna do it they might as well be doing it under my supervision".

Whether I agree with that is another matter, but as a fellow kid and friend to that person's child I wasn't going to break up their family because it was legally the "right thing to do".

Now, in the context of the OP in particular and SL in general...what is ARing these guys gonna do? It'll make them get new accounts and come back to do it all again...or if the OP's information is inaccurate (which seems very possible based on what has been said) then it gives uneccessary grief to someone who was just trying to enjoy themselves.

It's the parents' responsibility to know what they're doing on the computer and LL's responsibility to make it harder for minors to have access to SL as long as it's an "adults only" deal.

We don't need "Age Cops"!

No, Gresham's much worse!

What if the parent knows, and thinks the kid is mature enough for it?

When I was 15-16-17, my parents had no problems with me signing up for an internet account of my own - theirs was with one of the Big Names), because they trusted me not to get in over my head. By the same token, they were let me sign up - and I asked, because I discussed these things with them - for other online services too, before I was 18, because again, they trusted me not to get in over my head. Had SL been around then, I have 100% confidence that they would have trusted me enough to use it.

Subversive and Reitsuki know what's up!

knowing what they are going to be exposed to and propositioned with? i'd say the kids need to be taken from the parents and the parents jailed. that's so not cool.

By who's standards?

Oh pfffft. "exposed to" is bunk, as long as the kids are 14 or so. As for "propositioned"? That's where trust and maturity come into it. My parents trusted me enough to know if I was getting in over my head.

I swear officer, she said she was 18!

It doesn't work in real life, it doesn't work online. Honestly I doubt the OP has anything to worry about since there hasn't been any issues and,now that they know the kids age, they won't be engaging in corrupting the youth. Actually the bigger worry is when the relationship goes out of SL (as they ocassionally do), *especially* if they're crossing state or national lines, even if the intent is just to have coffee together innocently. Case went to court just a while back, Australian adult meets 17 year old (underage, but barely) over the internet, they fall in love, make plans to marry- she(adult) comes into the US to pick him up and is tagged by the authorities for attempted kidnapping. Oops.

The problem isn't where the original poster might run into problems, it's with the others on the grid who *don't* know they're dealing with a minor and who could get themselves in very real legal trouble by assuming that they're dealing with an adult.

Unless you can watch your underage friends all the time and make sure they're not getting themselves and/or others in trouble- it's best for them to go to the teen grid.

Sure, some of these kids might have their parents monitoring everything. They may never go into mature areas. They may never even think of hopping the next town over, across state lines maybe, to have coffee with a friend and wind up getting that friend into trouble... but it's just as possible that there's no one watching. Unless you're their parent/guardian the best you can do is follow the rules and limit the potential liability of others.

I don't deny that kids have seen it before. I don't deny that there are kids out there mature enough and supervised enough to be on the main grid. They have and there are. There are also 16 year olds out there who are mature enough to enter into a real sexual relationship with an adult- underage kids mature enough to live on their own. There are kids who can handle smoking... alcohol. The only one who can make those decisions to allow them to do something illegal are their parents and guardians... and even then the law merely looks the other way if it's convenient. Laws and rules are there for a reason- to protect the kids.

I don't know about you, but I doubt I've met anyone on the internet that I would feel comfortable acting as their guardian. Someone I know like I've lived with them for years and can anticipate the"hidden" facets of their personalities not just the ones they polish up for public view. Someone who's first life situation I know in all it's oddities.

It's a personal call. I would probably turn them in if I felt the evidence was 100%.

Actually, increasingly, places are adopting a "reasonable doubt" clause to those laws.



Or, wow. Some kids just might not be /stupid/.

And honestly, if someone else boinks a 16 year old online and gets busted for it? Not my problem, I'm going to be blunt. If people weren't so hell-fire eager to jump into the virtual sack with everyone, they wouldn't have to be paranoid about such things. I don't care about limiting other people's liability. Yeah, I'm an asshole that way.

As far as protecting kids? I'm not heartless, but I'm also not unrealistic. And I'm young enough I still remember what we were like back then. I'm not the guy who would call a kids parents if I saw them looking at a playboy behind the school. Now if I saw them smoking? Then I might. If I saw them hopping into a van with "Free Candy" painted on it? Then I definetly would. But second life is, when all is said and done, no different from the internet. If they have SL, they have the internet, and I can't keep them from anything they can find on SL anyways.

Ya know, I have a different viewpoint than Rei, but I can totally see where he is coming from with regard to older kids.

I would act differently, but I won't fault him for his choice. My concern is more on the 11 - 13 year old end of the scale, than the 16-17.

Most notably, most of the really mature kids would never even be doubted, agewise. I have mistaken under-18's to be (to my mind) 30ish due to maturity (Jesse Malthus) and several well into their 20's to be middle schoolers.

If a kid is acting... immature, that's a major clue a report needs to be filed. If a kid is acting otherwise, it won't even come up.

And yes, had I known, I would have even reported Jesse - as incredible a soul as he was - upon principle. It's to his credit that none of us had any idea, and he is still sorely missed.

Best I am able to determine from this thread the OP did not get 1st hand information reguarding the ages of those in question.

Don't ask, don't tell.

Honestly I don't really *care* about kids on the grid. On a personal level. I have no desire to see them wiped out or to require age verification even. I'd care a lot f it were my son/daughter/niece/nephew, but I can't watch over the worlds kids. Then again I don't get into sexual relationships in SL, the ones I have in first life are enough trouble as it is. =P

Once the cat is out of the virtual bag though, there's no good way to erase it.

My guild in WoW is 18+ for a variety of reasons, but I'm pretty sure we've had a few minors in the guild who lied on their applications. They never mentioned it. They kept out of trouble. They didn't confide to people about their age, and we let them raid what would be considered by most parents an unhealthy amount of time/week with us (20 hours raid time + 15+ hours of farming time every week plugged into the game, on the *light* end.) and hear all the raunchy chat that happens in groups of adults who are blowing off steam at the end of a day.

There's an assumption of trust there though they they don't break, especially as we continue to turn away truthful applicants firmly and publicly.

I think the desire to brag or mention what you've "gotten away with" goes up the further removed you are from the authority that you've lied to, and the further removed the chance of repercussion is. That WoW guild is 35 people small, and everyone is squashed in together 5-6 days a week. Getting kicked out for lying about age is an immediate consequence from someone that you know pretty personally. They know it will happen and the desire to stay in the guild is strong enough to keep their mouths shut.

Linden Labs is a faceless authority figure who you have to lie to through an impersonal form, and even if you tell people you're underage, half won't bother turning you in.

Fear isn't the greatest way to enforce a set or rules, but sometimes it's the only method you have if the rule makers are far enough removed from the breakers.

Far worse things happen to kids that parents don't go to jail for.

Most of the people I've seen are kids on the Orientation islands, kids basically shouting out I'm 12, not really knowing what they are doing.

I did AR them in that case, since they aren't mature enough.

Megz, there've been a lot of good points, and a lot of different views expressed here. But I gotta say, I think Desmond Shang has his head screwed on tighter than anyone else. As usual, I might add.

Why? Because his advice is in accord with Meyer's Law.

Meyer is the wise economist sidekick of John D. MacDonald's iconic hero, Travis McGee. In one situation, where a woman is having trouble deciding her course of action, he propounds Meyer's Law: In any interpersonal situation, the right thing to do is almost always the thing you find hardest to do.

Turning a blind eye would be easy. Saying "let the parents be the police" would be easy. Telling yourself they're mature enough to handle it would be easy.

Turning them in, knowing it could destroy your friendship and their trust...that's hard.

Meyer's Law says that's the way to go.

I have to agree.

Parents dont go to jail for their kids having ACTUAL sex with adults, unless they somehow abetted the Statutory Rapist.

How the heck are they going to go to jail for their kids sneaking around on their computer without their knowledge and having Cyber Sex (which isnt leagally sex) ?

So the whole parents should go to jail thing is a bit unrealisitc.

While I agree parents need to monitor their kid's internet activity - lets keep perspective here.

Theres a lot of Child Neglect violations that are not enforced that are far more serious than kids seeing Porn and cybering on the internet.

The best thing any individual can do to make sure they dont cyber a kid? Get to know the person first. If they dont remember much about life before DVDs or GW Bush, and are addicted to MySpace theres a good chance they are too young for you.

Now I have 2 teenagers, 16 and 15 - and we discuss what they use their internet for regularily, becuase they are our responsibility. Not some Online game company's.

Neither is involved in Second Life, MySpace is what most teens like anyhow.

I think we can all agree on that most of the people that use Myspace, young or old, shouldn't be allowed to play SL anyways!

Did she say she had 1st hand information of their age?

Thats the part that keeps confusing me.

Turning in someone based on Second Hand Information just seems wrong to me.

The best I can see is she just knows they are , they didnt tell her they were.

From what Megz said, she seems certain of her information. Naturally, it wouldn't be a good thing to AR somebody on a suspicion only.

As an adult, it is your responsibility to protect them. Do your best. Good luck.

If it were me, I would report them to Linden Lab.

Yeah .. she said knows from X that they lied to her.

That dosnt seem to explain much to me.

I think if someone were to tell you directly they were underage - then its pretty clear, you turn them in for doing something they shouldnt and their parents obviously arent aware of.

But anything short of that is speculation or rumor in my Book.

Unfortunatly the legal thing to do is to turn them in, the friendly thing to do is to not rat them out. It sums up to, the rules, the law, your friends.

Im very sorry but it is the right thing to do to rat them out, because if you dont, then they will be breaking the terms of service, and if they are doing mature things, they are breaking the law. Its best to have a convorsation with them about switching to the teen grid, if they are arrogant, and say no, confront linden lab.

She can do that, but she asked if she can not do it and get away with it. It's not your obligation to report anybody by the TOS, nor is it really anywhere else unless we start talking about Government.

Well, yes. Again, like I said: Zero-tolerance causes problems, so I judge each case on its own merits. An 11 year old? I might report that. A 15 year old? Probably not. A 16 or 17 year old? Almost certainly not, unless they gave me a good reason to.

(not directed at Desmond) To all the people saying I have a "moral" or "ethical" obligation to report them... no. I have at best a legal obligation to report them, even that is very questionable, and that's not the same thing. Neither my ethics nor my morality are defined by the law nor by LL's rules.

well if they never told her directly how could she conceivably get in trouble for it?