Should we have a 5-15 minute delay to reduce the risk of landgrabs due to mistakes

Brought up in another thread and also some times in the past.

Although it would not eliminate mis-sales of land, delaying land from appearing in the land search for a short while would dramatically improve peoples chances of being able to check the sale details and if necessary correct them before either a bot or another resident grabs the land.

There is some concern a delay would not be popular - hence the poll

Edited: On the basis of the poll at the time of editing (94 for a delay; 23 against), I have created a request in jira:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-376

A short delay makes sense. Not too long, just a couple minutes, but enough to eliminate those incidents where the land is apparently grabbed in the interval between when a person initiates setting the land for sale and when they finish making adjustments in the sales properties window.

I'm not sure how much I really believe those stories though. Not to sound heartless, but it really astonishes me that land sales can post so quickly when even deleting items isn't immediate.

Voted yes, 5mins. That should be enough. Good idea to put this in a poll, Matthew.

Mandy C

LL suggested the entire land market needs revamping.

Talk is cheap though, because for almost a year they have systematically frustrated the average resident, favoring the bad ethics of botting. Empty promises and meaningless platitudes have compounded the discontent among residents.

While it might prevent someone from mistakenly selling land, this really does not address the issue of a handful of greedy hackers monopolizing the low-end land market.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good suggestion, but it's somewhat of a kneejerk reaction to a much bigger problem.

And thus has Dave found the true meaning of the Tao of Linden.

I believe in simple solutions.. so 5 minutes got my vote.

doubt it lol

What we need is two sale options implemented...

1) Sell land to specified buyer only. This can be for any amount (even 0L), but must have a named buyer.

2) Sell land for auction. This would involve setting a starting/minimum bid and a time/date for the auction to expire. On the expiry date, the land gets sold to the highest bidder, but only if he has sufficient funds at the time. It would be trivial to log the 10 or so highest bids and check those in the event the highest doesn't have sufficient funds. The seller cancancel this auction prematurely, perhaps to keep it, perhaps to sell to a named buyer.

I don't have a problem with that suggestion. And I really can't fathom why anybody would to be honest.

A delay would be good.


Plus:
A message that the sale will not get into search for x-time (to hopefully head off the 'Hey dude, I put my land for sale and it's not in Search! WTF"

Hopefully, an explanation of why the delay is there has already been delivered while setting the sale. A passer-by or sim-scanner bot could jump in.
Maybe the proposal should include blocking a sale to Anybody during the delay.

Should delays apply to Anybody sales only?
If someone is a victim of their own typo and/or lag while setting up a sale to a named user, and that user tries to make the mistake stick, at least there's a chat/IM log to stand as the nearest thing SL has to a contract.

btw....you can set the land to a specific buyer. not yet to an auction but i think to set to auction will not really help to make mistakes at the sell-settings.

I agree with Dave that a more comprehensive solution is in order, however that obviously will require considerable thought and development energy. In the meantime, a 5 minute delay seems reasonable and attainable in the short term.

There are those with the "Why should Linden Lab save us from ourselves" argument. That's a good argument when the playing field is relatively level. It isn't. And the problem isn't only the competitive advantage the bot operators have over other land dealers who lack the skills to run them - there are far too many "regular" people out there getting burned over simple mistakes, because they don't realize or understand the predatory nature of these bots.

5 minute delay when for sale to "Anyone".
0 delay when for sale to specific person. (Instant gratification takes too long as it is)

I'd also recommend to Strife or Cybin to let this thread run a while here, collect some votes/comments, and then move it over to Feature Suggestions.

Trolls will be trolls.

5 minutes sound good

whats a troll Dave? takes one to know one

I know well that you can set sale to specific buyer. The point was that teh interface for gifting (sell for a token amount) and selling (sell for a sensible amount) are essentially teh same, which in large part leads to this problem. By removing the "sell to anyone for xyz amount" completely, and offering an alternative method to sell for a good price, you prevent the current problem.

How my solution will affect bots: The present generation of bots will be instantly obsolete. A new generation of bots will doubtless appear, desigend to bid up from the last bid minutes or seconds before a given auction closes. Bots cannot affect direct sales at all, or even get involved accidentally in direct sales. They will still exist, but the way they would hit the server is far less resource-intensive than the present system, so less lag from bots.

You were the one who launched the personal attack in this thread, not me.

I have never reported a bad post before, but the time has come.

It definitely is a small step in the direction of correcting a large problem. Something has to be done. Some people want Sl to be a sort of Socialist Nanny State and the most ardent Libertarians want a Wide Open free for all. Probably though, most of us are in the middle, wanting the general freedom to live our Second Lives but with some clearly defined do's and don'ts. History has shown that Humans can't live without some sort of Governance.

Personally, I don't believe the larger problem can be solved. Ultimately people will make mistakes.

However, how many people have clicked on a dialog box (not just in SL), and immediately gone "damn, I didn't mean to do that"?

The delay is meant to return to people an opportunity to have a short breating space to realise, check for, and correct such mistakes, which the landbots have taken away.

The fact that land will appear on the searches five minutes later than before will not actually affect ethical landbot operators, just those that benefit from mistakes.

Matthew

P.S. depending on the results of this poll, I intend to open a jira request linked back to this thread once the poll has been allowed to run for a while.

That's true in a sense. As long as SL is open someone will always be able to exploit the program.. And sometimes all you can do is live with your mistakes and learn. I think your JIRA idea is a good one.

LOL

This thread is called "Would you be in favour of a delay before land plots are listed for sale in search"

Perhaps you should contribute to the thread, instead of derailing it. I made comments on the topic, but your only contribution so far were personal attacks.

Get with the program.

C'mon guys. Take it outside please, or at least to the other thread. I'm the last one to be chastizing for going OT, but this thread could be of some value if it stays open for a bit.

Sorry Brenda,

ok for the record i voted no delay. only because i dont think it will make any difference. just delay the inevitable for bots that use the search page, and have no effect on bots that scan the sim.

the only way to stop land bots is if LL ban them and imo they would have done so already if that was every gonna happen

since nothing can prevent mistakes that have happened a time delay would a lot of times just be ignored. The person doing the selling has already decidede in their mind that they did it correct. So the only thing that would happen is the mistake would be delayed.

I woulod rather see the boxes be greyed out untill you check for mistakes.... Such as, Is this amt you wish to sell the land for? If ticked No you go backand correct it, if ticked Yes then you get the Sell to an individual or anyone choice... if individual you enter their name to advance. If ticked Anyone you advance. Only after several choices have been answered would you get the final ticks.... Sell this land? or go back.