Casinos - dead and gone w/ new policy?

And I have been censored on the blog. I am a US Veteran, who has fought to preserve Freedom of Speech.

July 25th, 2007 at 6:22 PM PDT
Has anyone considered the notion of a class action lawsuit yet?

My concern is this, will LL reimburse those who just invested in gaming supplies. If not, how will or does this NOT equate to theft.

Secondly from the TOS:
1.2 Linden Lab is a service provider, which means, among other things, that Linden Lab does not control various aspects of the Service.

You acknowledge that Linden Lab is a service provider that may allow people to interact online regarding topics and content chosen by users of the service, and that users can alter the service environment on a real-time basis. Linden Lab generally does not regulate the content of communications between users or users’ interactions with the Service. As a result, Linden Lab has very limited control, if any, over the quality, safety, morality, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of various aspects of the Service.

Right, except when it is…

1.4 Second Life “currency” is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab’s discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.

You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency (”Currency” or “Linden Dollars” or “L$”), which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, in any general or specific case, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right.

1.5 Second Life offers an exchange, called LindeX, for the trading of Linden Dollars, which uses the terms “buy” and “sell” to indicate the transfer of license rights to use Linden Dollars. Use and regulation of LindeX is at Linden Lab’s sole discretion.

Linden is not a currency, its a license. So does this null and void their decision, as it specifically involves currency.

Secondly, if stock markets, should be banned, since it is betting on the currency to go up or down, then the Lindex would be included in this.

3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life.

Would this not also null this point of the TOS, as they have just removed the intellectual property rights, by arbitrarily removing peoples property out of their inventories, without any warning.

Those who have been adversely affected by this decision are urged to contact me in world.

more american laws

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here!

1) The list of games in the policy statement is a list of *examples* - not a list of the only available cases. LL are banning _any_ game which accepts a wager in return for a random payout.

2) Lucky chairs and money trees are _not_ banned, because they don't involve a wager. The statement about "any game which uses random chance" has to be read in the context of the previous statement, which says "it is a violation of this policy _TO WAGER_ in games which...". Just giving things away randomly is no problem.

Sploders on the other hand are probably included

Well lucky chairs it's a wager time wise if my name is going to come out and I thought you did put money into a money tree?

You can donate money to the money trees, but you are not required to to be able to collect from them. I think that becomes a 'charitable donation' rather then a wager.

LOL. If he puts money into the tree and takes even more money back from it, that's not gambling, it's theft!

The amount you give to a money tree has no bearing on your chance to gain money from tree, unless the tree had no money to begin with.

As for trying to justify your time as a "wager" with the lucky chair...please!

Normally you don't put money into a tree AND ALSO take it out again. Doing so would be pointless - putting the money in doesn't enable you to take more out. Even if it made the tree grow fruit, (which they only do when they have "spare" money compared to their regular schedule), the fruit would still only be to the value of the money you put in, not more.

(As far as I know by the way, money trees aren't random, either.)

And "a wager of time" doesn't make sense - if that counted, then EVERYTHING would be a gambling game, because you spend some time doing it and maybe you enjoy it and maybe you don't.

Sorry, I've never really used one, I just remember donating and then hearing nothing but surely that's a wager is it not?



Well you fill in for me for free whilst I'm off lucky chair hopping then

Er, no? You just said what it is. It's a *donation*. A wager is a bet. A bet that you'll get some or all of your money back.

You obviously haven't seen the horses I back, I often don't get my money back

What is the point of a money tree then if it doesn't pay out?

Money trees are for new players, usually under 30 days old. They can come pick money off them (very small amounts).

The person who owns one (such as me) spends $500 a week to fund the tree.

Other people can donate to the tree as well. When they do, the tree gets "extra" money and may sprout fruit, which is worth more than dollars.

Older residents donate to trees, to help out newer ones. If brand new residents are donating to trees, they're doing it wrong. All they have to do is pick the money - it's meant for them.

coco

I really don't understand why some people are happy about these news. Personally, I don't gamble and own no casinos, but I'm against any restriction of personal freedom within SL. The community and economy ALWAYS lose as a whole, no matter what is being banned.

Everything that is popular in SL helps the economy. Casinos draw traffic and the adjacent malls rely on this traffic. Gambling also attracts and keeps new SL users; even if they mostly spend their time gambling, they will want to buy a skin, hair, clothes, occasionally rent an escort etc. Linden Lab also loses out and might have to say goodbye to a number of users and land owners.

I can't see how LL could be forced to do this. The Linden Dollar is no real currency, it's not sold as poker chips and the buyer doesn't even gain ownership of the bought L$, according to the TOS. I can only assume that some investors are worried. At least they didn't start with "Our community has made clear..." this time.

I can only hope that LL enforces this new policy in the same way as their policy against "broadly offensive" content, i.e. not police at all until an AR comes in. Casino owners and adult content providers sit in the same boat now... we could all be kicked off the grid at any time, but will likely be ignored by LL who seem to address their blog post more at the public eye than SL residents (We won't police the grid; we told them it was forbidden, our vest is white, not our fault if they still do it).

I hope they now ban all things illegal in the us.

I foresee clubs getting popular again, especially the clubs that give out prizes without anyone having to place a wager.

I foresee lots of casinos turning into clubs and malls and rental spaces for ppl to place vendors will drop in price as well, because the supply will go up

I for one will not miss casinos

(and LL said to comply with ALL laws, not just US laws)
trying to keep up with all the many laws around the world when it comes to gambling can not be an easy task)

Guess time for me to relocate my club to the fast private sim and open up again heh

Actually every object you can buy is illegal. It's always a gamble on sl that what you buy is what was advertised and you never know if it will hit your inventory when you put money in the vendor. So i should advise anyone having an object that accepts money to delete it asap.

Also playing sl is a gamble you paid for it and it depends on chance that the grid isn't down.

No one from above is enforcing any rulings on them. The federal law enforcement agencies that investigated gambling in SL never informed LL that they were violating the UIGEA or any other law. If anything it was quite encouraging that they declined to act or advise LL that they should adopt policies against gambling in SL.
Wrong again. This is their decision. There is no law in the USA that has been enforced against LL for gambling in SL and no indication from any federal law enforcement agency that they intend to prosecute or take any action under any US laws including the UIGEA.
If LL is taking such a gutless position on this, you have to wonder what position they will eventually take to protect themeselves from liability for unreported income to US residents making money from SL businesses. US Banks are required to have social security numbers of customers on record and report deposits exceeding certain amounts, in part to detect unreported income and money laundering. What do you suppose LL will be willing to do to accomodate US government concerns about unreported income? I suppose whatever they do it will all be good in YHO

seems like the money i pay to ll is in fact a wager then.

Like homosexual partnership? Or "sodomy"? Shooting people in combat sims? Smoking prim marijuana? Breaking the speed limit with a prim car?

It's a simulated virtual cartoon world, please don't forget that. Nothing illegal can happen in SL unless it extends into RL (like fraud, theft or copyright infringements).

Well i have a club and a casino and you know what? All the profits from the casino went into the random abject and money giver. Do you really think I will still offer those at my club?

Your post seems to assume that Linden Lab tells us everything.

I have 3 slot machines in my inventory from the time I had a little bar. They just gather dust. I keep them because I paid for them. But, based on the Q&A provided, it seems to me that LL can and eventually will remove such items from anyone's inventory:

"6. How will you enforce this measure? How can you detect these games?

Our staff will review, investigate and respond to appropriate notices. We may retain additional staff or services to conduct this activity. When we discover objects or games within Second Life that meet the policy’s definition, we will remove them from Second Life."

So, the question for me is, do I keep these 3 slot machines are delete them? Is possession of these items now a violation of the TOS even if they sit in inventory? It will be interesting remainder of year with this!

Tringo is a game of skill not chance - I can not see how Tringo is affected by this new policy - sure there is a wager involved, but the worst player could get a good run of blocks and because of weak strategy still lose the game. Clearly chance is not involved in a Tringo game.

[Edited - spelling]

Source, please?

Yep indeed all those things!

Why aren't they illegal on Second Life? I do not favour any restrictions but illegal is illegal. LL now even directs what is and is not illegal in the US or did i miss something?

And don't understand me wrong i'm totally not against homosexuals but if casino's and homosexual partnership are illegal in the US it ain't normal that only one of the two is forbidden on sl because of US laws.