Copyright abuse in SL

Never mind copybot ...

I saw a day or so ago someone was trying to sell on SLB a bunch of scans of paintings by Boris Vallejo and similar artists. This is illegal, and Boris is not a good guy to cross on this, as he is known to enforce his copyright very strongly. SLB could have a problem on their hands if they don't police this.

I've also seen the same thing in malls.

There was a case very recently of a mall owner (whom I won't name, of course) who raided a net art site, uploaded a selction of pictures and attempted to sell them. The artists got to hear about this and there was a great outcry. He was forced to withdraw the pictures from sale pretty quick.

What concerns me is that SL is getting the reputation as being a den of thieves who have no respect for anyone's copyright. That's not good.

Perhaps it would help if we were all to keep an eye out for these things? Better if these instances can be quietly nipped in the bud before there's a lawsuit.

I was amused when the first copybot hue and cry hit, that the first first store I went to that was "closed due to CopyBot" was selling Mickey Mouse and Winnie-the-Pooh items.

I've seen sports team items also.

I somehow doubt the original owners of the images were compensated.

So, it is ok to steal from others, just don't steal from me...

In RL members of my family make our income from copyrighted works, so yes, it does bother me.

PW

Both SLB and LL (and thus SL) are sheltered by the DMCA safe harbor provisions. No action is required at this time, though you could bring the copyright violations to the attention of Boris Vallejo.

Trademark, copyright and license violations are fairly common in SL. It's just that it happens to be infringing on someone who isn't part of the SL community, so noone really cares.

Actually you are wrong about noone caring. Sometimes the people do not know. I know one infamous club was using a picture of a girl for a while until my friend told them it was copyrighted (the website does all it can to prevent copying.) Once informed the club owner removed the graphics saying "a friend gave them to me." Sometimes that is all that is needed to resolve DMCA issues.

Boris, his wife Julie, the OP, and maybe a few others I can think of care. That's more than enough and definately more than [sic] "no one". Don't be so sure they aren't part of the SL community. The sci/fi and fantasy art community is tight knit with plenty of avatars wandering around SL. Just because a large group of people don't understand copyrights doesn't make them exempt from respecting them. There are plenty of places to learn about copyrights, in a classroom, a courtroom, the internet, a book, etc. The cheapest one would be the internet. The most expensive one in the case mentioned would be a personal one on one crash course with Boris and company.

While a lawsuit isn't likely because of the tiny tiny wee amounts of money involved, I think it's still pretty low of somebody to scan an artbook and turn bootleg images into profits in SL. All you've done is scanned and uploaded a texture that belongs to somebody else and they want to be paid what for it?? If I had the ability to do so in SL, I'd walk up to them and poke them in the eye.

Well I honestly do sell art I find online and will say I am not worried cause honestly according to LL's policy I am to be notified and ask to remove it. If the owner of the work wishes to file the DMCA allow them to do so, verifiy they own the right, have Copyright Linden come tell me. I'll yank it down and even hand the prints to the avatar that owns the rights if they wish. Until then though I will continue to sell until the owner contacts me. Sadly I have learned the hard way this issue is thrown around as a strongarm tactic by even other residents (wasn't there an arguement here over copyrights on "shoes" about a year ago?). I've had copyrights thrown in my face and find it distastful that people use them as threats. I am willing to follow copyright arguements in their full idea. The person proves they own the right and I will happily stop. That's what the DMCA is for use it, inform owners, or don't worry.

PS: though many will say this does not matter I do not sell the art anywhere but at my main shop location and were already found in public domain.

Online service providers must take and adhere to certain legal steps before they may qualify for the Safe Harbor protections from the DMCA. These protections are NOT granted automatically, and involve certain registration requirements.

Linden Labs appear to be in compliance with those requirements. SLB does not appear to be in compliance.

Regardless, under the takedown provisions fo the DMCA, if the copyright holder files a formal complaint notification then service providers are required by law to remove the infinging material. No lawsuits are necessary for this to happen.

-peekay

You missed my point though.

If someone copies/steals something that was created in-world, the resulting outcry is hard to miss, and that's a good thing. If someone infringes, it shouldn't go unnoticed, especially since taking real world action is not a very realistic option.

However, I have yet to see a pitch-fork mob outraged about all the Coca Cola vendings machines that exist in SL, or Marlboro cigarette packs, or DJs operating without paying royalties, or DVD players being sold with copyrighted videos, or textures uploaded from non-commercial textures sites, or gestures with quotes from popular movies and so on.

If someone steals from someone else within SL, they can expect to be lynched on the spot. If someone steals from someone outside of SL, you'll see a very different reaction, and as I said, most people simply won't care, or think it's a big deal.

I never said that was alright, or made it acceptable, but it is the way things are.

This is a bad can of worms to open again. Specially after the CEO of a music label admited his kids stole music publicly and has yet to be charged for any crimes.

As for coca-cola and marlboro since there is no sale of a related product it might be harder to sell specially with all the second racing stuff you get with thier logos smeared all over it.

DVDs to my knowledge most videos are being streamed are verified and/or from preview sites and previews have no copyright on them as far as viewing. Also most are normally sold as an accessory like "buy the coll video script thingie and get all this neat stuff".

Textures from non-commercial sites can still be uploaded and used to an extent and even sold if permission is given.

Gestures are qoutes. You just are charging for the time spent cutting, uploading, merging, etc.


As for stealing in SL....I think those arguing that where "lynching" involved is where the item isn't even copied. It's just resold with perms removed. The rest scream and yell and never get anywhere. I've been attacked with one of those and I still wait for Copyright Linden to come talk to me once the DMCA is filed.

I didn't miss your point on this. Coca Cola probably doesn't give two squirts about thier logo and other graphics being copied into SL. Nothing is in direct competition with thier product bottom line. They probably see it as free advertisement.

On the other hand, a visual artist's main source of income comes directly from the sales and marketing of the imagery they create and the rights they license/sell to interested 3rd parties. If someone copies their images and sells them for profit (no matter how small a profit that may be) they are in direct competition with the artist, destroying thier potential to sell thier work in that and other markets.

I have seen Boris, Rowena, Royo, Frazetta, and several other well known artist's works being sold without thier permission and little or no credit given to them as the author of the works unless the works still had the signature in them. There is absolutely nothing right about that, period.



In other words, you'll continue to take stuff off the web without asking the creator and profit from it inside SL because you know you can get away with it based on past experience. You feel it's far too much effort to send an email out asking for permission, and the creator should have to track you down with the help of Linden Lab if they are ever alerted to the fact that they have been ripped off.

How do you justify that again? Most of the stuff on the web IS copyrighted. You realize that, right?

I just noticed your P.S. If indeed all you sell is public domain works then you have a right to do that. So, why even mention DMCA notices or LL's involvement, since that would never factor in?

I visited your shop after reading this thread. The art you have on there is not public domain. A number of the images even had copyright notices on them.

Just because you find something on the Internet does not make it public domain. I run a gallery which sell true public domain art and maps. Either pre-1923 or works of the US Government. If you are interested, I can send you some references where you can learn more about what is and what is not public domain.

I think class is in session, Kraz. Are you taking notes?

Trademarks only remain valid when they are actively being defended. If either the Coca Cola company or Philip Morris stopped going after people using their trademark without permission, they'd eventually forfeit it.

There's also no safe harbour under the DMCA for trademark infringement. LL is liable if they don't remove the content as soon as it's brought to their attention.

The fact that they're both multi-billion companies doesn't somehow make it acceptable to use their brand without permission.

I see nothing honest about what you're doing.

When you sell copyrighted works accidentally and then you're informed that it is illegal, and you remove it, then that's okay.

But once someone points out that what you are doing is illegal, and you continue to do it, then you're risking lawsuits and penalties, not a request to take it down.

... this thread and all who posted on it shows the proof that if you're selling someone else's works, you've been asked to stop... if you choose not to, then you're purposely breaking the law. If you declare that you're not going to stop, I'm sure sometime within the next few days, some of us will be by to take some snapshots and send those to the right holders. )

The issue comes down to this:

Daisy Rimbaud - MAY BE RIGHT!

BUT

it is not HER job or ANYONE HERE to tell me what IS or IS NOT copyrighted. It is the job of Linden Labs following a DMCA request by the OWNING COPYRIGHT group with proof from a COURT ORDER to request that the offending avatar in sl to remove the items. OTHERWISE THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION! Reason being the company may be very aware of the violation and not care.

I personally do have items that might have a copyright sticker on them. The charges and payments I get from the sales of any item aren't even worth the ammount of prims that are used. The dispaly is merely there to show and disribute (I make maybe one sale a month on the picture vendors.)

I've had people argue alot of issues under DMCA and seen them here in forums. Scream, hoot, hollar, and curse all you like. Tell Linden Labs I am breaking copyright and they will tell you the same thing.

ONLY THE OWNER OF THE COPYRIGHT CAN ENFORCE REMOVAL and if not removed can file a lawsuit. Please notify the artists and let them know the ammount it costs to display thier works the way I do costs me more then I make the L$ cost. If they still wish them removed I will gladly do so. I'm not saying I'm not braking copyright...but that is up to the artist to say or not. Lynch mobs are not always right and are not the legal way to do things.

EDIT: On a personal level the only times I have issues with people selling art is when they have seemingly a buisness of it where they have remote sights they sell from, 10+ vendors of it, and/or charge 100+ for one picture. These sights attempt to sell on mass. But I know it is not my job to enforce copyright I simply do not purchase from the designer is all.

Please do and I apllaud you. I can also provide you with a variety of other locations for your submission to the various owners of the rights so they can decide on if they wish to follow up. I also wonder if you will contact the owners of the gorean copy rights (think two book companies own the rights), the rights to drow (Wizards of the Coast I think own that one now), the rights to star trek, star wars, and dune. I honestly cannot take the time to see if they will follow suit with legal action. These places all run with the understanding until Linden Labs tell them to "take it down" they are accepted as even LL is well aware of the laws involving infringement.

Now that is a tad of a low blow Namssor. I came here to have a discussion about the law and current standing by LL. I did not attempt to demean you in any way and yet you result to childish comments. If a linden came into this chat and agreed I was right in not taking down my works until contacted by them or the copyright owner would you not be insulted if I replied back "EAT THAT NAMSSOR!"

people need to mind thier own business.

This is like saying that if a tree falls in the deserted forest it makes no sound. Copying what is copyright is an offence no matter whether the copyright owner knows about it or not. Your morality seems to be that crime is OK as long as you don't get caught.

It needn't be my job to tell you what is copyrighted, because it's very simple.

1) Is this picture very old? If so, it's out of copyright.
2) Does it explicitly say somewhere that the picture is public domain? If so, you're OK.
3) In ANY other case, a created work is copyright of the author.

It's not for me to tell you what's copyright. It's for you to find out that something ISN'T copyright before you start selling it. As I see, some more responsible SL residents do take the trouble to find out.

Well I don't know who you are saying to mind thier own business but copyright is the business of everyone. People do have a right to inform the copyright owner that I am posting thier works. That owner then can notify Linden Labs if he, she, or it wishes it removed. Then LL will contact me to give me a "fair chance" to remove the content before handing my information to that copyright owner or will remove it themselves.

Then why did you start this thread to begin with if it is not your job to tell people what is and is not copyrighted?

SLBoutique.com has always been extremely proactive in removing content that offends copyright; we've been lauded for the more active role we take in the past. We've also investigated claims of people selling content that has been stolen in the past as well, much more proactively than Linden Lab.

If you would point us to the offending content (send an IM to Commerce Leader in world) we'll be happy to look into it and remove it. We're done so in the past when a member was selling Dali paintings (it was pretty exciting to have the Dali Museum contact us, to be honest!).

Regards,

-Flip