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You started the shit. Nobody on these forums was around when the US was founded.



I could care less about two adults having cartoon sex no matter what their AVs looks like.



I've been to Auschwitz what's your point?

Anymore stones to throw in your glass house?

I purposely left out events of this century when I made my comments.

You are using cicular logic a bit though Dakota. You are saying that we are violent and religeous fanatics becuase the founders of our country were violent and religeos fanatics.

I pointed out the violence of the Pilgrims was a product of their European background. The 17th Century was exceedingly violent in Europe.

While the Indian wars killed a large number of people - the number one killer by far was smallpox. In fact the reason that Part of New England was so ripe for colonization becuase their was a smallpox plague there that killed off as many as 90% of the native population only years before.

Aditionally very few current Americans can trace their roots back to the Pilgrims. Most have ancestors that are from other places. The Pilgrims hardly guided our Nation as it evolved.

Discussing the current treatment of Native Americans is a different subject from the original statement you made. You dismissed our country's orgins. Not our current policies. I would agree the current policy in workign with the Indians on the Reservations is pretty poor.

Violence is part of the human condition since before recorded history, sadly. If I had said of the Germans, "What do you expect of a people that tore down civilization and plunged Europe into the Dark Ages?" you would have rightfully said that those German tribes were not running the show nowadays and most people dont even directly decend from them.

Now I say all this with an effort toward impariality - I have both german AND cherokee ancestors.

Whereas I personally believe you're righteous and religious fanatics because you re-elected George Bush (tongue in cheek that before anyone bites). I know enough Americans to know that they have a cosmopolitan and far reaching range of opinions and to tar them all with the same brush is as futile as calling modern day Germans Hitler supporters.

Can't we put aside these sort of politics and deal with the world we're in here? Germans are no more to blame for the mess LL are getting themselves in over child porn than the Americans are for the mess LL are getting themselves over gambling.

If the kids are divided, they will never be united.

No incumbant US president has ever been defeated in an election during a war.

Its rare in other countries as well to force their leaders out during war time.

Still Bush only got about half the vote, and only a small portion of those who voted for him are members of the religeous right, combined with strongly Christain Conservatives they still are far from a majority in the US.

So its an inaccurate characterization.

I was really responsding to Dakota's accusation. Europeans are quick to judge what the US is doing now in Iraq. Even though those same countries are historically largely responsible for the conditions of Third World countries throughout the globe.



I think the conflict is really an outpouring of the larger political one. Second Life doesnt exist in a bubble. And since world opinion is against the US right now .. people will snipe.

Meenwhile Many Americans resent being attacked - Either by association to the president. Or by the amazing neglect of their own History.

Its hard to know what other countries would do in our place. Historically only large powers get involved in overseas wars. Europe has reduced its military spending to the point its not involved in those sorts of things any more.

Theres been times in the past when America was the non interventionalist - and had the small army, and it was the European powers meddling with world affairs.

People forget that American Culture in the larger sense is related Strongly to European Culture and always has been. Those who directed America during its growth were from Europe or European decent, and International ties have always favored Europe.

If those in thrid world countries criticize Europe and America - they have a justification. But Falvian was right - for the Europeans to do it; its throwing stones in a glass house.

Im all for getting along. Its not the Germans at fault for the Ageplay battle - Its a german Newsmagazine digging dirt up on Second Life over a subject that the US has also tried to ban.

And The Gambling stuff was the US laws. But thats not related to the War. A country can outlaw some things like gambling for business' based in the US, its called sovereignty.

Back to the reason for this thread -

In the US Many want nipples covered and Euros dont require it. I dont see the as a HUGE cultural gulf of difference.

Like I said it was Dakota who took the anti-US snipe. It wasnt necessary. I didnt write anything truly anti-European. I just said Europenas arent any different than the US on those things. And that the US is not mainly decended from the Pilgrims.

I have yet to find a Second Life "news" site that represents anything close to objective journalism. I will no sooner believe anything written in that "article" than believe in anything Prokofy has to say with regard to the Feted Inner Core conspiracy. Anybody can throw together a templated blog site and toss embellished "newsy" stuff around.

To be fair to Allana I think thats her blog - so maybe she was avoiding having to copy and paste and drown us in stuff.

Its possible she might not have been saying that that is a news story.

Though I see why you might have seen it that way.

You know why? I made the anti-US snipe because on this forums almost since I joined is an almost constant attacking of germans? Why because they did something horrible? Because there is a small NPD group in SL? No because they had a news show where they show that there is virtual and real pedophiles here in SL and oh then comes the, Germans are the nazis, because they wont let us bugger children!

And its always the same arguments expressed by foul mouthed half-wits who seem to think innocent people who were not even alive back then still are responsible.

You know what I am not, and I am tired of being painted with that stupid brush everytime I interact with Americans. Even when I lived there they call you nazi and things and it is a-ok they think to do so. Our past is behind us and our country rebuilt, and everything is different from what it was and we do not glorify our past nor make movies nor still have statues honoring our mad murderers.

Some do, I guess, Dak, but many don't.

I certainly wouldn't dream of it.

And as far as I'm concerned, the Germans have a pretty good law going on the child porn stuff.

AND - if it hadn't been the German police, it WOULD have been Americans, once the populace got ahold of this. We should be grateful Germany did first, because that saved us HUGE swaths of bad publicity here. Which we'll still come in for if LL doesn't do what they are doing now.

And I am totally in favor of LL cracking down on this, not that anyone asked me, lol.

coco

Americans bring up the past crimes of other countries to make themselves feel better about the crimes that they are committing today.

Afterall, as long as we kill 1 less innocent civilian than Hitler killed in WWII, then we are still morally superior! Great, huh!?

The ageplay thing was LL's fault for not realizing that German magazines try to make the dumbest shit news, and nobody anywhere in Germany takes them seriously.

/me shakes her head and sighs

Let's not lump everyone together huh? I'm American, and I'm in full support of what the German's did in regards to the sexual ageplay in SL. I think it's disgusting, and wrong, and virtual or not, it's pedophaelia, and I don't want anything to do with it. But I am also not of a mind to say "What they do isn't hurting you, you can just leave." Just because no one else is there with them doesn't make it any less wrong, no matter what anyone says.

Not everyone is quick to bring up past wrong-doings to make themselves feel better, and not all Americans support that kind of sh*t.

That's not a German-specific problem.

We have three main current affairs shows on TV here in Australia; Today Tonight, A Current Affair and Four Corners. One is excellent journalism, the other two are full of thinly disguised ads, fashion reports and journalism so one-sided it's like a witty analogy to a one sided thing I can't quite think of right now.

I expect almost no-one outside Australia has any idea which is which.


[edit] Would "as one sided as a klein bottle" work or is that too obscure?

However, even despite my above mentioned comment, I would like to point out that you did start this, by taking a dig at our countries original leaders first.


None of us were born then either. Can't we all let the past go and focus on the future? =)

Let's talk about Iraq! Ha, just kidding!!

If we did, I'm sure it'd start something none of us wants x.X

What a completely bizarre and twisted perspective... what are you getting from this wanton misrepresentation of sexual history? The US was and still is utterly obsessed with equating sex, with shame and degradation.

"so one-sided it compensates for the Ozone Hole"

"so one-sided, it spawns a new universe each time it's on air"

"so one-sided we figure they have a cosmic string in the production office"

Those do you?

lol!


Anyway.


It depends on the generation. Seriously, every day that goes by something new is becoming more widely accepted in the US, sexuality-wise. It's how Colette said, we're just behind when it comes to nudity. I see sex on cable all the time, sans the nakedness, doesn't seem to come off as very shameful to me.

I'm a big fan of sex. I suspect that it played some role in bringing me into this world.

I know allot of Germans, both personally and proffessionaly and the general impression they give is that they are deeply ashamed of their recent history and are still very angry at the way the Nazi Party untilmatelely destroyed thier counrty and most of the continent. I find that modern day Germans have no desire to be tarnished with the same brush as their ancestors and feel more hatred towards the Nazi Party than any other Europeans I have ever met. There are allot of preconceptions around the world about the Germans and allot are simply not true.

But in a good way!

WWII isn't "recent history".

You're doing well.

I have both Puritan and Algonquin ancestors.

Does anyone have a guesstimate on what percentage of Native Americans, in the East, were eventually absorbed by intermarriage? I suspect it is a very significant number, but for all that I have one ear to the ground about genealogical research, I've never seen anyone mention an estimate. It seems to me that a lot of people whose ancestors were in North America before 1800 have at least a small amount of native ancestry.

People overlook that the church directly descended from the Puritans, United Church of Christ, is now one of the most liberal denominations around. New England was literate and quickly became liberal, and basic feminism and abolitionism caught on early, even before the Victorian era. It's the deep South that has remained or become more fundamentalist, and it is that type of fundamentalism that is getting seen as typical of all Americans, but it isn't. We just have the misfortune of having that faction in control of the White House right now. They are the extreme right even here.

In twenty years, even if demographics continue to favor the South, the die off of a lot of the hard right due to old age will shift politics to the center anyway. I see the craziness, that is now coming from the religious right, as a kind of desperate last stand.

The off topic part of this thread has discussed European settlement and politics dating back to the 17th century. In relation to that, I deemed that the 20th century as being recent history as It was within the last 100 years. Seeing as human history spans over 100000 years I would classify the 1930's as being recent.

Maybe that is different on the planet you live on.

If that's the case, then the US' genocide of the Native American population is also recent history. Where's YOUR collective remorse?

On my planet, we don't resort to hurling insults and splitting rhetorical hairs when someone points out our mistakes. Especially when that rhetorical hair-splitting actually weakens our original argument. Apologize, and I will forgive you, though.