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Realrestraint brand - what is it? |
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 04:30
Thanks Jackie. I may take you up on it. I'm particularly interested in the notion of "dealing with strangers," and how this relates to the kind of bond of mutual trust that develops between Dom and sub. Scylla...can you enable PM's please (in your User CP)? I'd like to talk with you about this but cannot get in world during the day. Thanks. _____________________
Jackie
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Kelli May
karmakanic
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,135
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07-10-2009 05:38
To be frank, the first time I heard of RLV, I though of getting striped. That is: setting it up so other people could remove my clothing.... I'll admit, that was one of the first things I thought of (and scripted) for RLV. Not sure what that says about me. _____________________
Do worried sheep have nervous ticks?
Karmakanix@Sin-Labs http://slurl.com/secondlife/Circe/170/197/504 Karmakanix on SLX http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=61062 |
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Marine Kelley
Your cutest PITA
Join date: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 111
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07-10-2009 05:53
Jackie,
You're welcome, and I won't post directions here as this would not be the appropriate forum, and you've IMed me you had found my shop in the meantime anyway. You won't see tons of items though, as I prefer to concentrate on quality rather than on quantity... Have fun ! Marine |
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 06:06
Jackie, You're welcome, and I won't post directions here as this would not be the appropriate forum, and you've IMed me you had found my shop in the meantime anyway. You won't see tons of items though, as I prefer to concentrate on quality rather than on quantity... Have fun ! Marine There you go, someone using the "F" word again in a PG forum! What the heck is this place coming to, anyway? _____________________
Jackie
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Lexxi Gynoid
#'s 86000, 97800
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,732
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07-10-2009 06:22
Thread has changed direction, again. I'll still post my rambling
if you were a real life sub you wouldn't need this as you would have submitted to the will of you Domme/Dom/Owner. RLV appears to have nothing to do with traditional D/s power exchange. To me it appears to appeal to those who get a thrill from true objectification and being at the mercy of another where the capacity to consent is removed or to those who call themselves Master/Mistress but don't have the ability or will to create/maintain the power exchange (or of course just like have a doll to play with). It's interesting stuff all right. Yes, I agree, somewhat. Most of the RLV stuff starts to make me angry, not excited. Panicy, frustrated, enraged, etc. Not excited. It would seem to me that a lot of people in RL use locking type devices... not that I would actually know or anything... on occasion even thought the sub has already given control to their Master. These locking devices might be employed for "punishment" or "discipline" or even "arousal/reward" scenes from time to time. So it would seem the same would or could be said of SL locking devices also. Now if I wore such things.... not that I do remind you... I would not run around with my “keys” dangling but rather they would stay tucked away either in my possession or in the Masters/Mistress’s possession for such play in SL. I agree that anyone who requires someone to lock them up in order to be submissive is not likely really submissive but rather engaging in some for of fetish play or out for a cheap thrill. I wouldn’t think the community at large would object to such play, only those in it who are or consider themselves “purists” would. Just my 2 cents worth.  I've strong submissive traits, and I'm one of those that can't stand being restrained, bound, constrained. And I'm just talking about clothing/watches/jewelry here, and not even getting to the ropes, chains, and bondage devices. In real life, I mean. |
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Marine Kelley
Your cutest PITA
Join date: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 111
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07-10-2009 06:46
Some people want to obey, some others want to be made to obey (which IS to me the very definition of power exchange). Restraints are no use to the former, while they are capital to the latter.
Frankly, if you obey your owner because you have willingly submitted to them, and because you respect them so much, then I call it worship, or even love, rather than submission. This is my point of view though, and I may be wrong. |
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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07-10-2009 06:57
recursive acronyms ftw
...I agree, the viewer should change its name because there are many non-BDSM uses, but I really like the current one  _____________________
SLU - ban em then bash em!
~~GREATEST HITS~~ pro-life? gtfo! slu- banning opposing opinions one at a time http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/zomgwtfbbqgtfololcats/15428-disingenuous.html learn to shut up and nod in agreement... or be banned! http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/off-topic/1239-americans-not-stupid.html |
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 07:36
Some people want to obey, some others want to be made to obey (which IS to me the very definition of power exchange). Restraints are no use to the former, while they are capital to the latter. Frankly, if you obey your owner because you have willingly submitted to them, and because you respect them so much, then I call it worship, or even love, rather than submission. This is my point of view though, and I may be wrong. I've never heard voluntary submission described as worship or love, but in retrospect, You are absolute spot on with that (IMO). _____________________
Jackie
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-10-2009 07:46
I've been exploring this as part of my SL, and it has been an enligghtening , educational and fun experience. What I have observed is that there are as many aprroaches to BDSM as there are people practicing it. My interests land more in the BD than SM, for example. But there is no "right" way, in my opinion.
I have noticed, ironically, that there is a lot of closed minded and dogmatic thinking in the community. There are those that feel if you arren't a lifestyler, you are not legitimate, or if you don't engage in it in RL, or if you maintain a casual approach you are somehow insincere. I'm of the mind that if you are getting from it what you seek, along with your partners, then that's all that matters. BTW, I highly recommend Marine's items, especially the Police Cuffs, and Shibari. The only problem is I can't get the Shibari fitted properly on the torso area. I keep ruining copy after copy.  _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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07-10-2009 08:05
I have noticed, ironically, that there is a lot of closed minded and dogmatic thinking in the community. There are those that feel if you arren't a lifestyler, you are not legitimate, or if you don't engage in it in RL, or if you maintain a casual approach you are somehow insincere. I'm of the mind that if you are getting from it what you seek, along with your partners, then that's all that matters. Well said, Brenda. _____________________
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 08:10
I've been exploring this as part of my SL, and it has been an enligghtening , educational and fun experience. What I have observed is that there are as many aprroaches to BDSM as there are people practicing it. My interests land more in the BD than SM, for example. But there is no "right" way, in my opinion. I have noticed, ironically, that there is a lot of closed minded and dogmatic thinking in the community. There are those that feel if you arren't a lifestyler, you are not legitimate, or if you don't engage in it in RL, or if you maintain a casual approach you are somehow insincere. I'm of the mind that if you are getting from it what you seek, along with your partners, then that's all that matters. BTW, I highly recommend Marine's items, especially the Police Cuffs, and Shibari. The only problem is I can't get the Shibari fitted properly on the torso area. I keep ruining copy after copy. Well said, Brenda. I explored the D in D/s from the perspective of a loving relationship, but never had the inclination to submit. In order to try to better understand submission (voluntary and involuntary) I am thinking of a couple of options for my alt, (1) employment as a house slave somewhere like House of V, (2) selling her as a slave at auction for a 10 hour contract or (3) a sentence in RR Prison (hence this thread). This sounds a little extreme or maybe weird, but I/we am/are not willing to make the emotional leap into a voluntary sub role (and the possibility of the resulting relationship) at this time. _____________________
Jackie
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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07-10-2009 08:11
I've never heard voluntary submission described as worship or love, but in retrospect, You are absolute spot on with that (IMO). note I didn't say willingly submit in that post of mine. I don't know whether this is the time or place to be discussing semantics but to me it's quicker and easier to use tools to bend someone to your will than it is to use the mind to achieve the same thing. For me, when someone submits to you without the aid of tools it's a little less pavlovian and you have more confidence that they're actually submitting to your will rather than to their kinks that you've used as a lever (if that makes sense). To me that's the bonus of SL - it allows for D/s in its purest form although there's always the underlying doubt purely because of the limitations of the ethernet. In the end D/s is potentially the most damaging of all the kinks simply because of the potential for psychological damage. eh Life's rich tapestry and all _____________________
Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55 XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/ |
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 08:16
note I didn't say willingly submit in that post of mine. To me that's the bonus of SL - it allows for D/s in its purest form although there's always the underlying doubt purely because of the limitations of the ethernet. In the end D/s is potentially the most damaging of all the kinks simply because of the potential for psychological damage. eh Life's rich tapestry and all Wow, all this hits home hard. One discussion I had in the relationship I mentioned focused specifically on limits, not from the "physical" perspective but from the viewpoint of possibly reopening old psychological wounds (from RL abuse, injuries or relationships and so on) by an inadvertent act or command. Frankly, I was scared to death about the whole thing for that reason. _____________________
Jackie
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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07-10-2009 08:17
I've never heard voluntary submission described as worship or love, but in retrospect, You are absolute spot on with that (IMO). I've certainly heard other people describe voluntary submission as an act or expression of love, many times. I wouldn't put the negative spin on it that Marine does, though, as if calling it "love" somehow takes it out of the realm of "submission". In fact, there is a huge gray area there, and the terms are slippery. If one looks at what St. Paul has to say about marriage ("wives, obey your husbands"  , it sounds rather like submission...and he was talking about traditional, vanilla marriages.It's pretty easy to look at someone leading a bound, leashed, and hobbled slave and say "there goes a D/s couple". It's harder to look at a couple where the husband is loud, domineering and outspoken, and the wife is shy and retiring and say the same thing. But it could be true of either...or neither. _____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd |
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Rhonda Huntress
Kitteh Herder
Join date: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1,823
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07-10-2009 08:19
Marine Kelley puts out an entire line of products, and they are all quite good. She has vendors all over SL as well as a small shop of her own. I usually buy from the one at New Desperation Isle. I did not know she had a store right next door to me. I will have to go see what I can find, even tho I have toys I still have not used. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-10-2009 08:20
Well said, Brenda. I explored the D in D/s from the perspective of a loving relationship, but never had the inclination to submit. In order to try to better understand submission (voluntary and involuntary) I am thinking of a couple of options for my alt, (1) employment as a house slave somewhere like House of V, (2) selling her as a slave at auction for a 10 hour contract or (3) a sentence in RR Prison (hence this thread). This sounds a little extreme or maybe weird, but I/we am/are not willing to make the emotional leap into a voluntary sub role (and the possibility of the resulting relationship) at this time. Jackie, you may want to try one of the Kidnap RP groups. You can explore it in a fairly casual manner, in stand alone scenarios. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Jackie Silverfall
One Happy Man
Join date: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 687
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07-10-2009 08:29
Jackie, you may want to try one of the Kidnap RP groups. You can explore it in a fairly casual manner, in stand alone scenarios. _____________________
Jackie
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Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
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07-10-2009 08:32
Then, I make a plugin (I think I'm charging L$150 for it or something - not a ton) that you can install into any Sensations organ and people who click it can strip you or change you into another outfit. They have no other control over you than that. The sensations items themselves control who can click it too. I went with the xcite line for my 'parts' which I guess means I'd have to give all that up and buy in all over again to a different line to reach this? And the reason I went xcite was that my tail and ears are xcite enabled, which led me to discover xcite, and so on... - And those just aren't replaceable. Adi makes way too good of Neko tails and ears for me to consider an alternative. I'll admit, that was one of the first things I thought of (and scripted) for RLV. Not sure what that says about me. I think the 'stripped' fantasy is a lot more common than people want to admit. Unfortunately it gets blended with the 'objectification' and non-consensual-d/s genres way too much, at least in online fiction...  - Makes me wonder if I'm the only one who finds that disconnect in the fantasy and what's available for it. _____________________
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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07-10-2009 08:34
Yumi Murakami, who has been looking for motivation in SL for some time with little success if her depressed posts are to be believed. She was looking at role playing in her most recent initiative so maybe she has seen some light at the end of the tunnel. You both appear to take sl overly seriously (although you are not alone in this respect) so perhaps you may find some common ground. Pep (If I have transgressed or offended I will delete this post of course.) Hey Pep, no offense taken or, I'm sure, intended. As it happens, I was actually joking about not having fun: in fact, having been in SL for very nearly a year now, I find it an immensely enjoyable and enriching experience. Not least of all because of the opportunity to learn new things, as this particular thread is demonstrating. Do I take SL "overly seriously"? Hmmm. Not sure about that. If I do, it is largely in response to the fact that a great many others do. But I am actually pretty comfortable with my own position regarding the RL / SL divide. I hope things work out for Yumi, wherever she is . . . she will, in any case, have to look elsewhere for commiserations about her discontent or boredom, although I'd still be happy to have a virtual coffee with her sometime in world. _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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07-10-2009 08:34
Wow, all this hits home hard. One discussion I had in the relationship I mentioned focused specifically on limits, not from the "physical" perspective but from the viewpoint of possibly reopening old psychological wounds (from RL abuse, injuries or relationships and so on) by an inadvertent act or command. Frankly, I was scared to death about the whole thing for that reason. Then you're very lucky you were dealing with someone sensible. A lot of people in here and in rl approach D/s in a cavalier manner. In its own way it's a dangerous as breathplay as it can bring all manner of things to the surface. If you're in a secure relationship where you can deal with them then you can grow and sort it. If you're not then then the potential to make it worse is always there. Trust and security are to me essential elements of this. Sometimes you will hit limits you didn't even know were limits and it's perfectly ok to stop and say no at any time. Anyone who doesn't respect that isn't worth your attention. Just playing around is fine but when you start to get drawn deeper into it then there is a risk of exploitative manipulation or of uncovering things you really didn't want uncovered. In a way the risks are greater inworld simply because you have less defences because there is only your mind (if that makes sense) but it's also safer in that you can explore your issues with a modicum of security that is not always possible in rl. If you haven't already, do some reading on rack and ssc. http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/index.php/RACK_vs_SSC The debate rages on around the two terms. I think both are useful but the key element is consent and the ability to withdraw it at any time - usually via a safe word - when you hit a line that you don't want to cross (within reason of course, bored doesn't count )_____________________
Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55 XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/ |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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07-10-2009 08:38
Scylla...can you enable PM's please (in your User CP)? I'd like to talk with you about this but cannot get in world during the day. Thanks. Jackie, many thanks for this! I will admit, however (much as I hate to sound like a noob) that I have no idea what a "PM" is . . . nor where my User CP (control panel?) is. I should also tell you that I am going to be away for about a week, and am not sure when I'll be getting inworld next. I may make a flying visit later today just to pick up stuff. I AM very interested in learning more, so I hope you will be willing to wait until whenever we have the time to talk about this. _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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07-10-2009 08:46
I am sure many of you know of these already, but if you don't, there are some very useful documents on ResourceWoman.org about differentiating between true BDSM and abuse. These mostly come from RL BDSM organizations, like the National Leather Association, so they are not preachy or anti-BDSM.
Hall, Jan. "Domestic Abuse in the S/M Community." ResourceWoman.Org http://resourcewoman.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Domestic_Abuse_in_the_SM_Community.7170039.doc Shadowborne, Raven. "Why BDSM Relationships Are not Abuse." ResourceWoman.Org http://resourcewoman.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Why_BDSM_Relationships_Are_Not_Abuse_by_Raven_Shadowborne.7181807.doc Sinsational. "BDSM or Abuse." ResourceWoman.Org http://resourcewoman.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/BDSM_or_Abuse.7184218.doc NW Network of Bi, Trans, Lesbian and Gay Survivors of Abuse. "Abuse Is not S/M and S/M Is not Abuse." ResourceWoman.Org http://resourcewoman.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Abuse_is_Not_SM_and_SM_is_Not_Abuse_-_A_Checklist.7185815.doc Wiseman, Jay. "S/M vs. Abuse." ResourceWoman.Org http://resourcewoman.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/SM_vs_Abuse_by_Jay_Wiseman.7191044.doc _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Lexxi Gynoid
#'s 86000, 97800
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,732
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07-10-2009 08:55
In the end D/s is potentially the most damaging of all the kinks simply because of the potential for psychological damage. Ya, I was momentarily psychologically damaged. Took me some weeks, month, whatever to "fix". That was years ago, so I do not recall length of needed time to fix the issue. |
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Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
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07-10-2009 09:02
It's pretty easy to look at someone leading a bound, leashed, and hobbled slave and say "there goes a D/s couple". It's harder to look at a couple where the husband is loud, domineering and outspoken, and the wife is shy and retiring and say the same thing. But it could be true of either...or neither. The debate rages on around the two terms. I think both are useful but the key element is consent and the ability to withdraw it at any time - usually via a safe word - when you hit a line that you don't want to cross (within reason of course, bored doesn't count )Interesting combination in the two quotes above... One thing about the domineering spouse in most 'typical arraignments' is that usually the other shy spouse no longer has the option of a safeword. I've read that its actually more common for the wife to be the abusively dominant one - but that externally, its just more obvious when a man is in that role due to physical presence, matching stereotypes, and physical injuries being more blatant. _____________________
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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07-10-2009 09:09
Interesting combination in the two quotes above... One thing about the domineering spouse in most 'typical arraignments' is that usually the other shy spouse no longer has the option of a safeword. I've read that its actually more common for the wife to be the abusively dominant one - but that externally, its just more obvious when a man is in that role due to physical presence, matching stereotypes, and physical injuries being more blatant. That's why I'm fine with the idea of TiH relationships yet show me an equivalent vanilla one without the agreement and I start ringing the sisterhood. Like all human relationships you don't really know what goes on under the covers. Even now when I see bruising on a woman I'll think domestic violence well before I think kinky soul and as for the "henpecked husband", who knows if he has consented (rather than an element of domestic violence)? _____________________
Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55 XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/ |