Automated Burglary

If you say so.

Prok never posted on this thread.

The problem was I could have pulled your recent post right out of one of the guilt by association personal attack rants from 2 years ago.

I guess was just a coincidence as you say though.


One thing, you said most people are positive about the bot - most of your responses maybe.

The fact is most people have never heard of your bot.

umm i would just like to point out that now that name calling and flaming has started although i have not read all of the 1015 + responses that is possible that certain people who shall remain namedless are attempting a thread lock on the basis of flaming and name calling and such.... lol

(just saying) ...

p.s. I kinda like the bot but dont like the way the community issues are being dealt with or not being dealt with. I simply dont understand why this bot can't be completely opt-in and a request for beta testers put out. I would volunteer along with many others if the question is publicized and those that dont want to be a part of the search engine will never have to worry?

again (just saying)....

ESC isn't afraid of anybody here in these forums. I hope you don't take this as an insult, but really, the noise being made here about ESC is tightly contained, and being generated by just a small handfull of SL residents. The overall reception to the search engine they're working on has been much more positive than has been reflected here in this long over due for closure thread.

Would you care to explain your reference to stonewall? I (honestly) don't get that.

Was definitely not trying to do guilt by association. I look at cocoa as cocoa, an individual, who also happens to be a professional writer and knows the power of her words.

anyway, I completely agree with you that most people have not heard of this search system. I'm merely referring to the feedback we've been getting from various sources.

I'm allowing myself to get sucked into the forums vortex Have to be careful, I'm out of practice.

Edit: regardless, there is lots of stuff coming out here that is out of context, either from other websites & discussions, or out of a 2+ year history. I apologize for contributing to the drama.

I'm not actually sure what arrogance Cocoa is referring to, but no doubt we/I've done something that was interpreted that way.

Anyway, what I do want to do is put an official privacy policy in place, run it past our lawyers, and make it public to everyone. That's going to take me a bit of time to complete, so call it stonewalling if you must.

I've no doubt that this thread will be closed very shortly. In the spirit of taking liberty to say what's on the mind, Forseti, I would like to end my participation in this conversation by expressing absolute support for what you folks are attempting to do. I think it's a brilliant idea, and an honorable offering of service to the Second Life community. It will go far, and be successful. Good luck with it, and thanks for the effort.

I eagerly await the next big controversy.

zk

Thank you Zaphod, and to *everyone* here expressing their opinion whether positive or negative. I do not blow off an opinion just because it is not the same as mine.

Our technology is at an early stage (we just erased the entire database actually in order to make some improvements, so it is not very useful at all today) but we hope it becomes useful. If it is not useful, and people do not trust it, they will not use it.

Linden Lab is also working on search and they might solve the problem. They have access to ALL the data. At the end of the day, as I told CNET months ago, I see search as a big problem for metaverses just as it was for the Web, and as long as *someone* solves it, I will be happy.

I dont like the invasive by design nature of the bot - even though its not doing anything against the CS.

I doubt Ill agree with your conclusions on where privacy should start.

I really think LL should review their entire policies considering the capabilities bots and the change they will bring. The Community Standards were put in place before this stuff was possible.

However, its encouraging to know you are putting careful thought into this for future scans and setting up your search.

And to be fair if you need the lawyers to go over stuff and that is a delay that makes a lot of sense.


---
Contrary to how this threads spun up - I do not think "my way" is the only way.

But I dont think the way of the bot should be the only way either.

This is a kind of damned if you do , damned if you dont situation.

If you use "I" like i did - you run the risk of being flamed for saying things have to be your way - like I was.

If you use "We" you get flamed for presuming to speak for others.


Id be interested to know which pronoun is actually allowed - maybe just use (pronoun) instead. Then they can flame you for being impersonal.


PS -

There are other people who agree with Coco on this thread , many who feel far stronger about this stuff than She does. Im sure a lot of them dont mind being included in a "We" once in a while in an effort to make things a little better. I didnt mind.

Where?

Where has the response been positive, what forum or poll or blog?

I agree with you about the forums vortex.

Believe me, it has been only after a rest day or so in between each one that I've been able to make myself gather the questions and answers to post the progress once again. That is NOT fun for me.

I don't agree with the way you've characterized me, though.

In any case, the forum that the residents have for things that happen within SL are the resident forums. The feedback you have been getting here is indicative of the feedback from residents, in that it IS feedback from residents.

As Colette (I believe it was) said, I'm not nearly as vociferous about this whole thing as others are. If you have read the other thread, you can see me in there trying to work the problems, and expecting answers from ESC.

You could look at the power of my words as a writer there, and then talk about that. Including where I said, "Wait a minute, we haven't heard from Forseti yet," or something to that effect. If you just keep ignoring the posts and/or the questions, then yes, you aren't going to like the words I write.

The problem is, there have been no straight answers from ESC. The problem isn't that I collated the questions, and kept inserting them, in an attempt to get the answers, in a thread that keeps going off in all sorts of directions.

Anyway, I think I have made that point, and I think you are definitely aware of the fact that I want the answers, and that others want (some, any, or all) of these answers to the questions I collated as well, and those questions can be found by anyone at several points along this thread. So I think I can retire from the question collating business, and simply await patiently the answers.

coco

Well then I'm sorry Cocoa. Just know that I'm not trying to evade because I'm hiding anything, but rather this all happened a lot faster than expected, and I have some work to do to get you what you need. For what it's worth, I don't think your questions are unreasonable, just not totally ready to answer em all in an "official" capacity.

Thank you, Forseti.

coco

You may not have noticed I have already said much earlier in this thread that there should be privacy behind banlines. Whether that is reality or even possible is a different matter. I would certainly consider it ethical practice for a bot like ESC's to only scan objects on land it is actually on (thereby automatically not scanning behind banlines).

The case I have seen you arguing though, is that all your stuff should be private unless designated public, while my stance is that Second Life is public space unless designated private.

That is not what I am trying to do. That is why I said Second Life is not your space, but also not my space. What I meant to convey, is that Second Life doesn't consist of myriad personal spaces, no matter if it's yours, mine, Tom's, Dick's or Harry's. It is a big public space, shared by all of us. This is indeed not about you. It is not about any one of us. It is about all of us. My use of 'you' merely meant 'any individual'.

Well - see the way land is set up now you make it "public' when you add it to the Places listing.

I would be okay with a non-public checkbox instead. As long as it was well advertized to the residents, so they know when they are public and when not.

Maybe a stupid question...

Is there a way that ESC could program its bot to look for ban lines and then to avoid scanning into those areas? I've heard people say that the bot can hang outside the ban lines and still scan the property inside, but is it possible to make it completely avoid the property altogether?

I understand that this doesn't address the issue of opt-in/opt-out; I'm just wondering if it's something that's possible and that ESC might consider.

I would say it was something they considered and overlooked in the coding. Otherwise, why mention about banning the bot?

All they need to do to fix this and the problem of listing the wrong parcel in search is to actually move to the parcels they are scanning. If they can't move into it, it shouldn't be scanned.

Yup. I opted out for the sole reason that when I searched on my items, they listed as being on a separate parcel (in someone else's store!) Not cool.

Something like this happened to me, although the items in question belonged to a friend who had inadvertently forgotten to turn off the "for sale." But the parcel they were listed in was actually a neighbor. These were decent sized parcels, too, which is saying something.

I don't mind beta bugs, I just want for people to realize the search is out there so they can protect themselves or opt out. I still wish it had been voluntary initially.

An afterthought. If bots can find things left for sale so easily... so should we.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-670 A Beacon for "My Objects For Sale"

If you like the idea, please bump it with a vote.

That's a very practical helpful idea I think.

lets all set boxes way up in the sky above our land..(so unsuspecting and innocent consumers dont find them) and set hundreds of boxes labled "best skins in SL" mark em for 20L a piece and let the bots play

Glad to see the above couple of posts. Thinking about solutions to the problems ESC and its searchbot pose to SL and Residents is really called for here. Especially things Residents can do on their own...

An interesting idea that even Forsetti mentioned -

If Linden Labs replaces their search with a much better search - it will eliminate the whole need for the searchbot.