Automated Burglary

Me either - the open Source Server Idea will create the ability to boom without it being on Linden sold estates.

Besides the fact theres a massive delay in orderign islands - and a huge number of islands already out there.

Im pretty confident there a significant interest in privacy that people will want them.

Or do you really think that the bot naysayers in this thread are the entire set of people who want privacy?

I'm saying I wouldn't be putting any substantial amount of money into developing private estate land at this point. With the open sourcing of the simulator code, that is very likely to be turned upside down at some point, possibly soon.

The bot nay sayers in this thread are but a grain of sand in a sandbox, on any issue that concerns Second Life, and its future. Just as I am, by the way.

You may be right. I don't plan on cutting out just yet. There is room for everyone for sure. Running into the likes of you inworld won't be a problem . Just as long as I don't have to go near those other people you mention. I am a pragmatist at heart, I know where the money has to come from to make this thing grow. I just hope that there are places to go and things to do that they aren't involved in. They have permeated real life too much for my taste, I wan to be as far from them as possible in SL.
I am also enough of a pragmatist to realize that despite the lofty ideals Linden Labs is a business, and businesses aim to make money. I am a Capitalist at heart, but the type of capitalist that doesn't want to see the little guy pushed aside by the giants just because they can. I'm not against change and technolgy either, but not for change and technology for the sake of it. Change can be bad, technology can be misused.
In the end..will the Corporate money make SecondLife a better place? Perhaps. Will their presence enrich the experience? Not for me.
I will drive through the tunnel, pay my toll and see what is on the other side. But I will also be ready to take the exit ramp if I don't like what's there.

Really, I can't go along with this notion about how none of us matters, and we are all insignificant grains of sand who just happen to be in the way of some HUGE AND IMPORTANT THING which of course will THEN be dependant on a bunch of grains of sand who still won't matter compared to the HUGE IMPORTANT THING that REALLY matters.

Actually, none of it matters without us. That's just all there is to it.

I wonder what happens to people to make them so powerless. ALL the power is in us.

coco

This really transcends the sheepbot issue, at least or me. As Coco says, who does matter here? If we are not important, then why are we here. If we are to be ignored, abused , pushed aside and taken advantages of by Linden Labs and/or their new Overlords, then Second Life isn't Philp Rosedales's dream realized. It is the same piece of shit nightmare a lot of us come here to escape from. A book by Dr Asimov has been referencd in this thread. I'd put another Sci Fi classic on the Table next to it. Arthur Clarke's "Childhood's End".

For the time being, search.sheeplabs.com is not going to show objects set to "sell original".

This may be temporary as we look into changing the search.sheeplabs.com service so that all items being sold at L$0 are placed into a 24 hour holding period to prevent "swooping", as there are legitimate sellers of original items who do want their items found in search.

This will not solve all swooping of course, which has been a problem in SL long before the introduction of this search engine. To reiterate the obvious, please be very careful when you put items out for sale in public land if you do not actually intend for them to be bought by the public.

Forseti Svarog, ESC

At least something.

Something? I would say that is a lot. ESC recognised an unforeseen problem, and while they could have been in this thread arguing their case and generally wasting their time, they chose to use that time to come up with and implement a solution that should make everybody happy, both the people who are crying 'theft' and the people who are legitimately using the search engine for what it was designed for.

Certainly a huge step towards reducing the 'exploitive uses' of the search engine...

Though I'm sure some will still find cause to complain about your data mining process.

May I ask... do you have any intention of checking the parcel type (shop/educational/residential/gathering-place/etc) or ban/allow lists to determine whether or not the location of the item found seems defined towards welcoming customers?

Thank you!! This is hugely helpful. It means a lot.

This is one in the eye for the 'there is no problem, it is all in your head' brigade, and the 'I don't care, they are here, just live with it' brigade.

ESC have listened to the noise their system generated. They have now acknowledged that there IS a problem, and have taken steps to alleviate it. I think they would be wise now to speak with the OP and the other Estate Owners, and see how this service can be made to work properly, and without harm to residents.

I don't know those brigades, but I do know people who said "yeah, this sucks, but there was no theft, and ESC listing your stuff is no more criminal than Google listing your website.

No 'one in the eye' for me. I just think it is nice of ESC to do this. Not necessary because of some 'responsibility' or because they were 'aiding and abetting thieves'. Just nice of them to have consideration for those who use unsafe means to transfer items.

/me awaits the next searchbot, and the proclomations that "we didn't know".

A lot of people should be taking this time to secure their objects and lobby LL for a better transfer mechanism. L$0 should no longer be considered safe, and next time this happens there'll be even less sympathy.

THAT would be a BIG improvement in the feature. ESC has taken a step forward we have to do the same. The genie is out of the bottle. Those of us that don't want to be affected by this have been told what we have to do. I consider THIS matter settled.

I dont. They still opt you in without asking, and still scan you without asking.

However this is a great step reguarding the Original Posters Problem So thats good.

/me whispers
*shhhhh* I'm trying to lull them into complacency.......

This is a step forward. Good.

There is a lesson to be learned from all this, and more to be done about this bot, and beyond it. Remember, this is only the first attempt at exploitation of Residents to come out of this company (that we know about) and this company is only the first of what could become many would-be exploiters - if we stand still for it.

The lesson: Public protest and Resident action can work.

Notice how ESC is only putting this very-useful-but-minimal fix in now, despite weeks of uproar and the long-visible failure of their apparent public relations policy toward Residents of condescend-to-and-attack-objectors-through-proxies-and-by-the-way-FU. I do not think it is a coincidence this change comes only after it was clear that there are many things Residents can do to negate this searchbot and any successor to it and make it a public embarrassment for them, and after some of these Resident actions have begun. They did not respond to evidence they were doing harm, or to entreaties, criticism or even civil outrage; they responded when there was a knife at their throat and some of their own blood on the floor. Some theorize that this fatally flawed searchbot is not aimed at us, really, but is actually a sort of Potemkin village to impress corporate prospects who have more money than knowledge of SL. Maybe, maybe not, but evidence so far seems to support that hypothesis. With over 11,000 views of this thread alone and counting, it should be pretty obvious that word of the weaknesses of this bot is getting out. And now, finally, a forward step is taken.

There are two different world views in conflict here. One is that it is in everybody's interest to maintain a civil society here based on at least some consideration, forbearance and mutual respect. I think the vast majority of people in SL subscribe to some form of this theory. The other world view: Dog-eat-dog, and whenever you find a way you can get away with to benefit yourself by exploiting SL and/or Residents you are entitled to do so regardless of what harm you cause. Oh, and if you can bamboozle your victims into passivity while you do it, so much the better. This conflict is not over, and probably never will be over, because there will always be somebody new to come along and fancy he is the predator and everyone else is - the sheep.

The answer is to keep the long knives sharp, and remember that even predators have a jugular to go for. SL Residents are largely on their own with this one.

As for this bungle, there is still plenty to deal with. It still is NOT opt-in. It still scans SL and puts Resident data on a database outside the control of LL and without permission of those residents, whether they opt-in or opt-out. We still don't know the full extent of the data they actually collect beyond what they choose to make public, or what they might do with that data privately, between themselves and their corporate clients, or anyone else with an open checkbook. We only know what we are told by a company that has proved itself less than trustworthy. It is probably wisest to prepare for the worst.

Also, we do not know who next is going to come down the pike. There are likely bigger malefactors than these, and as SL grows, more of them will come, sniffing the air for blood. We still need to get LL to fix the object-transfer system so others cannot abuse it, among other things. And look for more ways to protect ourselves.

LL does the best it can, but it has other problems it must deal with and just so many resources. As the sheepbot claque has been telling us for dozens of pages now, we are responsible for our actions here, and we have to take care of ourselves. Don't forget that.

Well, it's still not working. I opted in totally, for all my objects everywhere, and also put out five objects made by my alt.

This was several days ago, and it still shows nothing.

I wonder if they decide whose objects they don't want, and manually override any attempts by those people to get listed?

Or does it just take days for them to search the grid? Because my objects are in more than one place - five different sims that I know of, offhand.

coco

The crawler may have been taken out of service while they implemented the changes.. I doubt there is any arbitrary filtering of particular people's items, with the exception of those who've opted out. There are also still issues with the website.. the "see more from this person" link doesn't work, search results never seem to occupy more than a single page of results, etc. So I'd say they've still got plenty of work to do..

I do think this is only the tip of the iceberg. SL is going big time it seems, and just like the Gold Rush in the 1800's all sorts of crooks and shysters will be looking for ways to seperate us from our Lindens. We definitely have to keep our eyes open and our purses close at hand, and if we do become aware of scams from anywhere, communicate them. We are our best defense against lowlife thieves.

Finally. something I agree with from you. There will always be sheep, there will always be wolves after them, despite how many "long sharp knives" they wield.

As far as I'm concerned, Forseti's post is proof that they are NOT "wolves". They saw reasonable objection to an aspect of their BETA service and they're adapting to improve it. I suspect logic convinced them more than rage did, you probably believe the reverse. It doesn't matter either way in this case.

A true predator would not have cared and would not have been dissuaded by any amount of angry residents or logical arguments.

Some of the sheep search users may have been predators... I won't argue that. I'm glad esc has made it less of a tool for them.

I also hope esc succeeds in this venture, I would rather have a group of people willing to adjust (even if they don't respond to feedback fast enough to keep Cocoanut happy ) take the lead in this niche... the sooner they're established as the defacto opt-out-based search engine for secondlife, the more likely it will discourage others from trying to compete for that place.


Suzy Hazelhurst- Thank you for #786.

Cocoanut Koala- "crawlers" of any kind are usually not know for their speed or accuracy. Give it time. =) .. err, what Zaphod said.

Gosh, Zaphod knows so much for someone who said he sort of almost accidentally joined the ESC users group only about a week ago. What is your job title at ESC, Zaphod?

Jesus Christ Har give it a rest.

He's the President, and I'm the CEO!

Rusty and Suzy are on the Board of Directors, too!

It's all a great big conspiracy! We're ALL out to get your Linden$ in any way we can! HIDE YOUR CHILDREN, THEY ARE NEXT!!

There, happy?

You know, I don't even trust you to be telling the truth about that, at this point.

But thanks for listing the "usual suspects" in one place for everyone. : )