Should there be a Land Regulation Committee in SL
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Annabelle Vandeverre
Heading back to Real Life
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 609
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03-05-2007 13:16
From: Jackson Rickenbacker
At first logos would get very little recognition and will mean nearly nothing, but after proper marketing andexposure having this logo will be almost a neccessity if your planing on doing anything in the land trade business in SL. Terms for membreship and logos are very simple, keep your nose clean and use the logo's, mess up, do wrong and scam someone out of money, then lose the logo's(which will be copyrighted and enforced) and be put on a blacklist
Since membership is would be free, and NO real life information is required, anyone doing fair business could only consider this an enhancement to their reputation and level of respectibility..
Though still there will be those people screaming that its not right, its not fair, and its not allowed, well sorry about the bed you make for yourself. whats the old adage? If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem?
I would expect nothing less than a system like this coming from a member and ardent and vocal supporter of the National Association of Realtors, the association with a stranglehold on real estate sales in the U.S. As I recall, you were the one who was reporting everyone in-game who called themselves a Realtor to them. Just wondering: Are they backing you in this project?
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I am returning to my real life for personal reasons this summer. My store, $50 or less @ Annabelle's Garden and Home Decor, is now closed. Thank you to my customers for making my store successful in the short time I've been here. Get this before the bots do: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nefrax/153/156/40
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Ayesha Rasmuson
Registered User
Join date: 1 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
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Land Rush
03-05-2007 13:22
I agree with this position except for one point. Monopolies have been determined to be a bad idea in RL and subsequently follow suit in SL. Bots swooping in a grabbing land before average residents even get a chance is obviously unfair. Everyone should have an even chance to purchase, which I believe reflects the compassion philosophy of SL.
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Homer Antler
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 105
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03-05-2007 13:29
I have registered www.slauthority.com back in the days to do the same (not just for land but to keep bad neighbours away) but it just won't work in a virtual world. If anyone want to use the domain then I am game but i have to tell you, SL is a game, no need for any committee. Why would anyone want to listen to a committee if you really have no powers? |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 13:42
From: Annabelle Vandeverre I would expect nothing less than a system like this coming from a member and ardent and vocal supporter of the National Association of Realtors, the association with a stranglehold on real estate sales in the U.S. As I recall, you were the one who was reporting everyone in-game who called themselves a Realtor to them.
Just wondering: Are they backing you in this project? Annabelle, I will continue to report people to NAR for use of thier trademark, its unethical, and not earned, so therefore why should a person be allowed to use it when they havent earned it. ITS TRUE I am against the unethical use of the REALTOR® inworld by people who are infact not a REALTOR® Lets break things down here, I would like to see a committee that oversees the ethical practices of land trade in SL, AND I'm against people using the REALTOR® trademark, when they are infact NOT a REALTOR®.. whats wrong with these things? Am I member of any REALTOR® associations? YES I am, Im licensed in the States of Florida, Nevada, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Do I pay dues, and do I have the right to call myself a REALTOR®? Most definately I do, but you dont see me calling myself a REALTOR® inworld When it all comes down to it, by my efforts to make a safer land trading enviroment, I doubt anyone calling me a crook, thief, scam artist, is going to hold alot of weight. No Im trying to make this a better place for all of us to enjoy, if your opposed to that its your choice And to make statement "the association with a stranglehold on real estate sales in the U.S" shows that you really know nothing about what your talking about. NAR protects buyers by sorting thru on the state level all real estate agent applicants and double checks them with the FBI to make sure the person that your selling your house with has the highest morals & ethics and not a scam artist. YOU SHOULD BE THANKING THEM and not slagging them |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
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Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 13:47
From: Homer Antler I have registered www.slauthority.com back in the days to do the same (not just for land but to keep bad neighbours away) but it just won't work in a virtual world. If anyone want to use the domain then I am game but i have to tell you, SL is a game, no need for any committee. Why would anyone want to listen to a committee if you really have no powers? Saying SL is a game, is infact your opinion inwhich you are entitled to. Just because you view it as a game doesnt mean everyone else has to, after all, theres more money being turned over here in raw USD in a year, than many small countries. To call SL a game, is extremely shortsighted Infact LL doesnt reguard SL as a game, it reguards SL as a community |
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Homer Antler
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 105
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03-05-2007 13:51
From: Jackson Rickenbacker Saying SL is a game, is infact your opinion inwhich you are entitled to. Just because you view it as a game doesnt mean everyone else has to, after all, theres more money being turned over here in raw USD in a year, than many small countries.
To call SL a game, is extremely shortsighted
Infact LL doesnt reguard SL as a game, it reguards SL as a community I made that comment after trying to get people to work together but you are absolutely right about the SL economy. |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 14:00
yes, it seems many, NOT most people in the SL forums really just look to argue, and not really want to be part of a community, they take the "whats mine is mine" attitude, but, considering that is an expression of freewill, its acceptible
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Jack Sakigake
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 150
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03-05-2007 14:08
From: Jackson Rickenbacker
And to make statement "the association with a stranglehold on real estate sales in the U.S"
shows that you really know nothing about what your talking about. NAR protects buyers by sorting thru on the state level all real estate agent applicants and double checks them with the FBI to make sure the person that your selling your house with has the highest morals & ethics and not a scam artist.
What does highest morals & ethics has anything to do with running a FBI check? As far as I know, the FBI check only proof that you don't have any criminals record. The Homeland Security Department ran a FBI check on me last year and i passed the check but I wouldn't say that I have the "highest morals & ethics" than anyone else because the check only shown that I have no criminal record. |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 14:22
From: Jack Sakigake What does highest morals & ethics has anything to do with running a FBI check? As far as I know, the FBI check only proof that you don't have any criminals record.
The Homeland Security Department ran a FBI check on me last year and i passed the check but I wouldn't say that I have the "highest morals & ethics" than anyone else because the check only shown that I have no criminal record. Taken from lrec dot com Such other information as the commission shall require. (1) Licenses shall be granted only to persons or entities who bear a good reputation for honesty, trustworthiness, integrity, and competence to transact real estate activities requiring licensing in this state in such a manner as to safeguard the interest of the public, and only after satisfactory proof of such qualifications has been presented to the commission. (2) When an applicant has been convicted of forgery, embezzlement, obtaining money under false pretenses, larceny, extortion, conspiracy to defraud, or theft, or has been convicted of a felony or a crime involving moral turpitude in any court of competent jurisdiction, such untrustworthiness of the applicant, and the conviction, may in itself be sufficient grounds for refusal of a license. (3) When an applicant has made a false statement of material fact on his application, such false statement may in itself be sufficient grounds for refusal of a license. FBI background check is NOT the only method of determining the merit of an applicant. Generally any crime of moral turpitude (def. Any base or vile conduct, contrary to accepted morals, that accompanies a crime.) will be enough to refuse licensure to a applicant. Common crimes of moral turpitude range from bounced checks that are never paid to Murder. These people are NOT the people you want to trust when it comes to helping you sell your 250k house |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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03-05-2007 14:35
From: Jackson Rickenbacker yes, it seems many, NOT most people in the SL forums really just look to argue, and not really want to be part of a community, they take the "whats mine is mine" attitude, but, considering that is an expression of freewill, its acceptible well i'm gonna tell you i have seen 2 or 3 attempts at sl resident formed governing bodies in the last year they all had major drawbacks so I would be worried to see something like this come about in fact if it did after what i have been seeing over stuff that is not well thought out or planned and the sometimes very unbecoming behaviour of the ones running it its a bad idea and just for those reasons the idea in concept is great unfortunately I see a lot of people who may have schooling but very little wisdom or life experience around and for these reasons I would have to say its a big no Also as you can see its hard to get anyone to agree on any one single point things go into wierd tangents people start flinging names and in general peopel get petty. Having seen some of the results of what are apparently the best examples of regulation in sl with regard to professionalism and management among other things its a very very bad idea. I dont think there are enough peopel with the right qualities maturity or even tempers to run such a thing consistently and continuously in SL since it would be helter skelter and possibly cause harm its a bad idea given the nature of the community that exists in SL. I would love to see zoning and a bunch of other things and some policing but not in the hands of the residents because the small examples that occur now are not used correctly or even managed they are just kind of running without any real sense of responsibility. Some of the groups get pretty unrully as well and so the credibility of the present systems in place for handling various aspects issues in SL are something of a mess. If these smaller systems have not succeeded and have proven to be badly planned and badly runned something this wide scale would be like a disaster to the community |
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Colette Meiji
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Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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03-05-2007 14:38
It occurs to me the "land" we sell in Second Life is merely lease rights to server space on computers owned by Linden Labs.
The Land thats chartered/ rented - is merely sub-lease rights to server space on computers owned by Linden Labs.
Any Product you sell is a modified construct that exists only on the Assest sever owned by Linden Labs.
Any services provides are services provided that only exist in a virtual world owned wholey by Linden Labs.
It seems to me theres a common thread to these statements.
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Jackson Rickenbacker
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Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 14:50
From: Colette Meiji It occurs to me the "land" we sell in Second Life is merely lease rights to server space on computers owned by Linden Labs.
The Land thats chartered/ rented - is merely sub-lease rights to server space on computers owned by Linden Labs.
Any Product you sell is a modified construct that exists only on the Assest sever owned by Linden Labs.
Any services provides are services provided that only exist in a virtual world owned wholey by Linden Labs.
It seems to me theres a common thread to these statements. According to the Second Life website page titled "Own Virtual Land" found here http://secondlife.com/whatis/land.php"Owning land in Second Life allows you to build, display, and store your virtual creations, as well as host events and businesses. " I would imagine if LL really wanted to pass on the sense and feeling of ownership that somekind of deed and title should be transfered, even if electronically thru email, I actually would love to see this as a feature. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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03-05-2007 14:56
From: Jackson Rickenbacker According to the Second Life website page titled "Own Virtual Land" found here http://secondlife.com/whatis/land.php"Owning land in Second Life allows you to build, display, and store your virtual creations, as well as host events and businesses. " I would imagine if LL really wanted to pass on the sense and feeling of ownership that somekind of deed and title should be transfered, even if electronically thru email, I actually would love to see this as a feature. *laughs at any attempt to compare Linden Marketing with reality* *laughs more* =p The was a French futurist who theorized some day your computer needs would be charged per computation. Second Life Land seems a step in this direction. |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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03-05-2007 16:22
From: Jackson Rickenbacker According to the Second Life website page titled "Own Virtual Land" found here http://secondlife.com/whatis/land.php"Owning land in Second Life allows you to build, display, and store your virtual creations, as well as host events and businesses. " I would imagine if LL really wanted to pass on the sense and feeling of ownership that somekind of deed and title should be transfered, even if electronically thru email, I actually would love to see this as a feature. its their server no deed will change that its not land its a 3d version of a website (fancy website) purchasing servers is a bad idea they get old and break fast renting them is much better which is basically what we are doing anything less then 65k of land (one sim) means you are using a shared hosting package unfortunately they can't give you a pieace of a computer but the only thing the deed would do is say you own a computer and that would be like the private islands etc and the minimum would be that of a sim (err not sure of the class 5 servers i thought it was one sim per computer unless it was a void sim if there is more sim per class 5 server then your gonna have to buy all the sims to own the thing) in any event how long does your computer last before you have to basically toss it upgrade it or buy a new one? for me its two years I would rather rent then be sold this computer which is basically a hard drive and cpu and some memory .. when they and if they produce an open source sim and i can touch and feel the computer and put the computer in my office then I will own my land and not before  |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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03-05-2007 17:09
From: Jackson Rickenbacker I aquired the domain last week , but found i didnt want to use it for my land sales website due to LL restrictions on the two words "Second Life" in the mast section of the webpage, or something like that. Im not really good with webpages and such
Ideally I wouldnt want to be anything more than a member and not the deciding factor, obviously Im a Land seller and would have certain bias that would always be called to question. Once its set up and running I would much like to set in in someone elses hands
As for someone dirtying your name, things like this cannot be avoided, that would be akin to demanding LL puts an end to all griefers grid wide by tomorrow midnight, I would guess that sooner or later there will be enough interest in the project that people will want to be on investigative and review panels. In any event it would not be done purely on hearsay, no reputable registry or committee takes things on hearsay alone Ah, but the devil is in the details. Just *who* are you going to give your registry to? And of *course* people will want to be on investigative and review panels. All the power hungry, all those that need dominion over others, and your unethical competitors as well. Nobody expects the Realtor Inquisition! With regard to not taking things on hearsay - what evidence can you possibly procure? We can't see anyone else's $L balance. We can't see any agreement and there's no such thing as a validated chatlog inworld without the Company's assistance. And even if you have that - without consent of all parties, showing copies of chatlogs inworld is against service terms. You have no evidence *other* than hearsay to work with, unless of course you think that every chatlog you see won't be retyped a little. At the end of the day, you are setting yourself up as 'judge' over all land deals. Even if you hand it off, so what? You are still doing the picking. It's not like you are going to hand it off to someone you don't like, or doesn't think like you, so... same difference really. Not that it will matter much because there aren't any teeth in this. Name and shame doesn't work when the reputable land barons that everyone knows about won't join your system. If you assail the reputations of people everyone knows to be decent, you'll look bad, not them.
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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03-05-2007 18:36
Well Jackson it looks like you have a huge moutain to climb.........and thats so sad. I'll say it again: For the life of me I cannot see any reason an honest, repututable, and caring land dealer would not be onboard to the idea of a neutral, unbiased and open committee to assure their potential buyers that their purchase is good and will be honored in the most ethical and honest way. (long sentence I know......but, it's a long thought too).
Most of what I've seen are obstacles thrown to trip you up........and to call me stupid with my agreement in your idea. Many arguments are "it just won't work because it's been tried before" or "no one's going to know my name, by God!!" Very few, if any, thoughts about how the land dealers might actually work something out.
Well, I sure have learned a lot............a lot about how many land dealers think of the average land buyer. They've consistantly told me that if I want to buy then "it's my word and you better damned well believe it or you can go elsewhere." Problem is, where do I go? Who's really telling me the truth? So someone has a year's history of little or no complaints.........show me that somewhere indepentantly verified.
And, yes, it is ultimately Linden Labs responsibility. But they have stated in no uncertain terms that they will not get involved. So they've washed their hands of the whole situation. And the only help the average resident can hope for is an inworld oversight committee.
A shame.............a crying shame.
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Annabelle Vandeverre
Heading back to Real Life
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 609
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03-05-2007 18:48
From: Jackson Rickenbacker
And to make statement "the association with a stranglehold on real estate sales in the U.S"
shows that you really know nothing about what your talking about. NAR protects buyers by sorting thru on the state level all real estate agent applicants and double checks them with the FBI to make sure the person that your selling your house with has the highest morals & ethics and not a scam artist. YOU SHOULD BE THANKING THEM and not slagging them
You didn't answer my question. You just started insulting me. Many Realtors are good, yes, but I've heard my share of true horror stories about your 'highly moral and ethical' counterparts. I suggest you get off your high horse, and perhaps people will give more consideration to your ideas. Another question: What exactly is it that makes you so sure I don't know what I'm talking about? Are you psychic?
_____________________
I am returning to my real life for personal reasons this summer. My store, $50 or less @ Annabelle's Garden and Home Decor, is now closed. Thank you to my customers for making my store successful in the short time I've been here. Get this before the bots do: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nefrax/153/156/40
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Jack Sakigake
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 150
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03-05-2007 19:58
From: Peggy Paperdoll Well Jackson it looks like you have a huge moutain to climb.........and thats so sad. I'll say it again: For the life of me I cannot see any reason an honest, repututable, and caring land dealer would not be onboard to the idea of a neutral, unbiased and open committee to assure their potential buyers that their purchase is good and will be honored in the most ethical and honest way. (long sentence I know......but, it's a long thought too). Well the question is how do you get a neutral, unbiased and open committee? If you have a workable solution, by all mean bring it out. People point out that idea have obstacles and have tried and failed is a REAL FACT not throwing obstacles to trip anyone. From: Peggy Paperdoll Well, I sure have learned a lot............a lot about how many land dealers think of the average land buyer. They've consistantly told me that if I want to buy then "it's my word and you better damned well believe it or you can go elsewhere." Problem is, where do I go? Who's really telling me the truth? So someone has a year's history of little or no complaints.........show me that somewhere indepentantly verified.
But what is that different from Real Life? If you want to buy a house, when do you go to independently verified which realtor is a good one? If you want to hire a plumber, where do you go to independently verified which plumber do a good job? If you want to hire a contractor to fix your house.... Is there any committee for each one of these professions that allow me verified who done a good job? You could verify that whom held a license and number of years of experience. But who could verified and tell me which one will do a good job? It is all worth of month or recommendation friend and family.. there is no where to verify! |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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03-05-2007 20:10
From: Peggy Paperdoll For the life of me I cannot see any reason an honest, repututable, and caring land dealer would not be onboard to the idea of a neutral, unbiased and open committee to assure their potential buyers that their purchase is good and will be honored in the most ethical and honest way. Everyone's on board with that, Peggy. And yes, there are some residents that do have my first life information. I just urge you to notice how quickly the most basic questions won't be answered, because the answers are too painfully obvious: 1. Who is going to judge what's fair on Jackson's committee? 2. What solid evidence could there be in a dispute? Show me a committee that has something at stake if it makes an error, and could operate on anything other than hearsay. There's only one committee that has either of those, and that's our service provider.
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Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 20:20
From: Desmond Shang .... From: someone
I purposely didnt have any of that i just read in your quote. Seems like to me your throwning alot of stone, I think though its not meant to offend me rather to show me the possible problems that could arise, Although little less steam next time eh? Desmond?
I will highlight some of your questions though
Desmond says
"All the power hungry, all those that need dominion over others, and your unethical competitors as well"
Well for the same reasons i would not want to be involved with being a board member due to my bias, it would require the others to be the same.
You knew that already though didnt yah? I couldnt see how you would be able to formulate such a comprehensible list of what ifs, if you couldnt already answer that for yourself
Demond Says
"At the end of the day, you are setting yourself up as 'judge' over all land deals.
Shame on you, with me saying I couldnt be a board member because of my bias, that statement meant absolutely no sense
Desmond Says
"Even if you hand it off, so what? You are still doing the picking. It's not like you are going to hand it off to someone you don't like, or doesn't think like you, so... same difference really.
Thats called WITCH HUNTING, your incriminating me on what you beleive I would do in the future, again shame on you!
Desmond Says
"Not that it will matter much because there aren't any teeth in this. Name and shame doesn't work when the reputable land barons that everyone knows about won't join your system.
Are you speaking for them? sounds like you are making a decision for them. I doubt any REPUTABLE land baron would not want to get involved, this is only an enhancement. your treating the idea like a scam, and me like a scammer
Desmond Says
"If you assail the reputations of people everyone knows to be decent, you'll look bad, not them.
Are you even aware of what I'm talking about here? this whole thing is suppose to boost reputation of respectable land barons.
Desond I respect your posts as they are informative for the most part, but that post was nothing but misunderstanding and false enuendo why would you do that?
Answers to more legitimate question,
Q Just wondering: Are they backing you in this project? (NAR)
A Its my duty, my right and my pleasure to uphold the policies, trademarks and copyrights. I pay for them yearly so I have a staked interest. but NO would be the answer your looking for.
Q Who is going to judge what's fair on Jackson's committee?
A Jacksons commitee? Your starting to sound like Prokofy. The answer your looking for is board members with control in overseeing the registry would not be land barons, land flippers, or land speculators of course conflict of interest, but you know that already
Q What solid evidence could there be in a dispute?
A Facts can be found, your smart enough to know that, why does this seem more like a test of my intellegence and less like a open forum to duscuss the possiblities
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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03-05-2007 20:22
From: Jack Sakigake But what is that different from Real Life? If you want to buy a house, when do you go to independently verified which realtor is a good one? If you want to hire a plumber, where do you go to independently verified which plumber do a good job? If you want to hire a contractor to fix your house.... Is there any committee for each one of these professions that allow me verified who done a good job? You could verify that whom held a license and number of years of experience. But who could verified and tell me which one will do a good job? It is all worth of month or recommendation friend and family.. there is no where to verify! Better Business Bureau perhaps?  I believe they have a rather good reputation of being independant. It's okay..............I know where you stand. And a few others. So have learned something with this thread. Oh, and throwing out the "it's been done before" therefore it's not a good idea is a real cop out. A fact, yes...........but something that can't be done. That is not a fact. It once was a fact that the sun orbited the earth. But if you choose to fight it.........you'll keep it a fact. But not forever I don't think. |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 20:28
From: Jack Sakigake
But what is that different from Real Life? If you want to buy a house, when do you go to independently verified which realtor is a good one? If you want to hire a plumber, where do you go to independently verified which plumber do a good job? If you want to hire a contractor to fix your house.... Is there any committee for each one of these professions that allow me verified who done a good job? You could verify that whom held a license and number of years of experience. But who could verified and tell me which one will do a good job? It is all worth of month or recommendation friend and family.. there is no where to verify!
Yes in RL those agencies are called DBPR (Division of Business and Professional Regulation AND BBB ( Better Business Bureau ) But the best source of information for who does a good job is buyers reviews...please dont go into the fact that people could write fake reviews for themselves A land Baron flips alot of land every day, and i doubt they are going to spend days and weeks making up 50 different reviews for themselves, besides IP's can be matched |
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Jack Sakigake
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 150
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03-05-2007 20:41
From: Peggy Paperdoll Better Business Bureau perhaps? I believe they have a rather good reputation of being independant. BBB provide information on 2.5 millions organization. National Realtor association ALONE has 1.3 million members. You think BBB could provide all the information to verified? I just went to their website and search for 1. My attorney law firm 2. My Mechanic repair shop and surprise, surprise, none of them show up in BBB, so are they good or bad? Who else can I verify with? From: Peggy Paperdoll It's okay..............I know where you stand. And a few others. So have learned something with this thread. Oh, and throwing out the "it's been done before" therefore it's not a good idea is a real cop out. A fact, yes...........but something that can't be done. That is not a fact. It once was a fact that the sun orbited the earth. But if you choose to fight it.........you'll keep it a fact. But not forever I don't think. Well, you can brush off others comments about why thing won't work, but yet you have yet come up with one idea such as how can you keep the committee unbiased and open. If you are in agreement with Jackson, are you going to voluntee your time to setup his website/registry? Don't just talk, put your talk in action then you might change my FACT. |
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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03-05-2007 20:51
If I knew anything about about web design I'd be right there. And who ever said I wouldn't volunteer? I have absolutely no real estate sales experience......but I have bought a house in my life. I know nearly nothing about plumbing..........but I have had plumbing done for me. Know how I felt comfortable in those business dealing? I checked the BBB...........not listed? Sorry Charlie. I'm sure John Plumber and Suzi Real Estate are okay..........but they did not "volunteer" anything to up my confindence. So they loose. Simple solution from a simple person (pun intended..........just so you know I'm not so full of myself as some are ) |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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03-05-2007 20:57
From: Jack Sakigake
1. My attorney law firm
2. My Mechanic repair shop
and surprise, surprise, none of them show up in BBB, so are they good or bad? Who else can I verify with?
Your attorney is a registered professional with the State bar, AND the DBPR all information on him is publically availible when you go in and have your car fixed, your making person to person contact, which is a luxury that SL doesnt afford us. And somehow I think you would rather SL stayed that way, still waiting for a reason why you personally wouldnt want to be involved |