Are Bots Disproportionate

Did you report this as a bug? Because it maybe just that.

Is this similar to the bug which causes 2 people to get charged for land if they purchase at the same time but only one actually gets it?

*Edit* Apparently the land buying process is in need of more checks and balances during the process.

Yes, it was reported.

No, it's not the same bug...I've experienced that one before.

And yes, even though the land floater confirmed the land sale was cancelled and the land is no longer for sale, the bots are still getting around it.

I think it is the same bug, different application of it.

Both are caused by land deals not being locked, as well as order of operations.

Here is an example of how land buying works:

Client Parcel Information
Submit Buy Packet
Server Gets Buy Packet
Server Contacts other server for funds withdraw.
Other Server respond posative or negative, as to funds being withdrawn.
Land Owner Changes.

Starting the transaction takes time, depending on how laggy the asset server is, as thats where your funds are. Several things have to happen, there such as varifying you status as a premium membership as well.

---

If 2 people send a buy before the funds are withdrawn and returned from one, thay both can loose there money.

Like wise, you cant kill a pending transaction as it enters the withdraw state.
So if you mark your parcel not for sale, after a transaction is starting the transaction will finish.
SL has no reverse transaction capability's, its always been all or vanishing money.

Smaller parcels don't go on auction - that would explain the bot runner's story of being at land with a Linden setting it at $512 for each 512, and the bots competing with each other as to who could get it first the instant it was set.

Guy Linden and the bot runners must be very well acquainted with each other by now.

I can't imagine that Guy would enjoy that job much. Seems kind of pointless.

coco

This is a can of worms alright Zed.

While all this is happening, LL confirms to the seller, the land sale has been cancelled, yet the sale process goes through.

This presents an interesting legal challenge, because as far as the seller is concerned, Linden Lab has verified the cancellation of the sale. So legally, it's an unauthorized sale.

In my tests, I had a reasonable expectation this would happen, so I experienced no loss and gained knowledge to an exploit. But on the other hand, anyone else who sets their land for sale, even for a second and realizes they made an error, cancelling the land sale is meaningless and/or inffective and what's worse, they have no recourse. This is why I brought it to attention.

Errors should be on the side of caution, not profit.

I would be very interested to know, if any resident lost their land in this manner, it would pose a very significant legal challenge.

Have you had a response to your exploit report on this? Usually exploit reports are dealt with almost immediately.

Not yet.

Although I've replicated it several times, I'm sure the exterminators at LL would want to do it themselves before reporting back.

Weedy-

I think it's pretty clear that you've crossed the line from "Asking for help" into "Trying to prove a point"... and whether that's trolling or just looking for debate, or trying to change SL for the better doesn't matter, it's material that's appropriate for a general forum...

Which Resident Answers is not.

--
There is no virtue in taking the low road to get to the high road faster.

Don't be so restrictive. Do you want this forum to be composed entirely of "Please can someone tell me how to clear my cache?" posts? Would you be happy then?

Anyone with any knowledge of philosophy knows that "answers" tend to be discursive by nature ...

Please, stick to the topic, and don't represent my motivations.

That's a task for the resmods, thank you.

It's been civil and germane thus far and I would like this thread to remain open.

I'm tempted to start a parody thread about seabots. Maybe spacebots?

*sigh* Very well.



AR'd:

Thread opens with biased rhetorical questions that the poster clearly already has answers (or at least inflexible opinions) for.
Thread serves no purpose except for the attempt to increase awareness of the "Landbot" problem. It is not appropriate material for Resident Answers.

Trolling, flaming, failure to follow specific forum guidelines, use of Resident Answers as a "General Forum."

Please AR me too, for not being friendly enough in my protest of this off-topic thread.

You initated an attack on me, now you AR me for kindly asking to stay on topic.

So? Elanthius makes a smartassed remark at the outset of the thread, yet nary a word.

The proponents of bots now are attempting to control the forums too.

Actually... YES, I would like Resident Answers to be limited to just residents asking residents for help. [edit: Clarification: I would like NEW THREADS in Resident Answers to be limited to "Residents Asking Residents for Help." as the guidelines implies is intended to be for SL usage and how-to's.]

It's one thing for the answers to a legitimate question to veer off-topic, or for there to be differences in opinion among the answers to a valid question.... but if we don't set a good example with what's acceptable as an opening question then we may as well just shut down this forum.

The line must be drawn somewhere.

Weedy has been around long enough and is savvy/smart enough to know full well she's bending the rules here.

If Weedy wants to bend the rules in order to castigate others for bending other rules... she shouldn't expect special treatment for it.

I checked the list of resmods, and you are not one.

AR'd for off topic, trolling, flamming and personal attacks.

I am quite done with responding to you. Take the last word, I really don't care.

Perhaps we both need time in the time-out box.

Given that the original post was nothing but an op-ed piece disguised as a poll and presented as suitable for Resident Answers, I'd say this entire thread needs a timeout. A permanent one.

No, he didn't initiate an attack on you, he simply pointed out that this thread is far too politically charged and biased to be appropriate for Resident Answers. And he is correct. That he is not a moderator does not deprive him of the right to point this out.



Nary a word, because most of us just silently nodded in agreement, and moved on.



Wrong again, in two ways. Jopsy, like myself, is a proponent of bots in general. I think I am correct to say we both have serious reservations about the particulars of Land-Buying-Bots. Further, pointing out that a given thread is inappropriate for the forum is not an attempt to control the forum. It's merely pointing out that a given thread is inappropriate for the forum.

I would add that your attempts to silence anyone who veers off your prescribed course of discussion, and I dare say veer foul of your prescribed point of view, is blatantly an attempt to control this conversation, and steer it back toward a direction which supports your original op-ed piece in post #1.

You clearly have motive here which extends well beyond that which is appropriate dialog for this forum. You have many folks on your side on this issue. Given the way you've attempted to control the dialog within this thread, however, I can't get behind you, no matter how opposed I am to "Land Bots".

I'm simply not posting to this thread because if i say stuff that is wrong i might get "inappropriate off topic reported" and I dont think that helps much just was being used for bumping the thread I think in an effort to keep it on top. In any event there are like 10 threads covering every aspect of the issue 2 dozen times and LL has its stand and the community has theirs. I think you will find the community doesnt want land buying bots in general its a no brainer conclusion based on the fact that people are complaining about being unable to get decent priced land.. so the threads are somewhat irrelevant at this point. Most people are aware of what bots are and land barons are and land flippers are and that the combination of the three put together makes it very hard to get decent priced land on the mainland.


meanwhile i see yet another anti bot poll has popped up. It will give a majority towards no bots because its not something which is a community friendly device. The poll is irrelevant the opinions of the community is known. The only thing that needs to be found out or dealt with is Linden labs position on bots which for the moment seems to support it. The only functional thing that can be done is to try to lobby linden labs if its that much of an issue. Posting 20 polls and threads on bots doesn't do much at this point and people are pointing this out. The fact that its not being heard or acknowledged is another issue and makes me wonder about the agenda of the thread.

and yes now i am evil and a bot supporter but there it is? (the fact I dont like these land bots is irrelevant only what i say with regard to the existance of this thread is and will have me coloured as an evil bot supporter this thread should not have been started but it is and until it gets locked people will post what they will post )

I predict that in the not very distant future the landbot code or some person's version of it is going to be released in it's entirety, as always seems to happen with issues this emotionally charged. Get ready for the ride!!!!

Who says we're not lobbying LL as much as possible? I've personally sent somewhere in the area of 50 emails to various Lindens, I've called, I've spoken to Lindens directly in world ... the only thing I haven't done so far is show up at the offices in person. And I'm but one of dozens doing the same thing. But the polls and threads you see as worthless do serve a few purposes. One, they make sure the issue stays alive in people's minds ... the public has a notorious short attention span, so keeping the issue in circulation will ensure that it doesn't get forgotten. Two, not everyone reads the forum daily, and many people just scan the first page. By keeping an active thread going we can spread awareness of the issue and hopefully increase the pressure on LL. Finally, in the event a Linden does glance at the forum, having an active thread or two about landbots will let them know that it is indeed an issue that people are concerned about and discussing.

It's all about pressure. The more pressure we can bring to bear, the greater the chances of getting something done about the situation. The forum is one of those avenues of pressure.

I see nowhere in the post i wrote that said you are not lobbying i said that the ONLY FUNCTIONAL thing that can be done is to lobby. By reposting topics 1-2 per day on this forum you are only really getting the same pairs of eyes over and over. If you want to lobby effectively set up a website post it in resident run sites and set up a group. Write form letters for people to download and sign and send to Linden labs. Posting to this forum is just like when the umm well that last issue with porn and kids came up thingy and definitions of certain types of conduct were discussed for days on end. It doesn't in fact help but it hurst because people turn off I know I have. I was interested in the first thread on the issue after that it became a matter of flogging a dead horse. technicaly repopening locked topics on issues is a faux pas on forums including this one and about 6 bot threads have been locked. Your being given a lot of latitute which is fine but also in your dealings you are loosing support by the way posters who are "antibot" are being dealt with in the threads.

Here is the message again these threads are becoming a "waste of space" there are two open threads on bots one is enough

Lobby linden labs set up a site and do it right it will go further this way then by continuously posting and reposting on the same topic which eventually makes people stop reading.

I'll say it yet again. No one is forcing you to read the thread. If you don't like reading about landbots, then why the heck are you reading this thread? It's typical egoism: I personally don't like something, therefore it shouldn't be available to anyone. IF YOU"RE SICK OF READING ABOUT LANDBOTS, THEN DON'T READ THREADS ABOUT LANDBOTS! Make sense?

I hardly think you're qualified to speak for everyone and say we're only getting the same pairs of eyes over and over again. I doubt you lack the omniscience to make that call.

Be well.

okay i dont and am not reading the threads the forums are flooded with them i am commenting on the fact there are too many of them and its going to and IS having a negative impact and as you can see from the posts in this thread about people saying too many threads its pretty obvious the same pairs or eyes are repeatedly coming to these forums remember forums have a very low readership in proportion to the actualy gaming population. So yes there are too many bot threads being started per day also not much common sense is needed with regard to saturating forums with a topic people just stop reading period. Again i'm not actually reading the thread I am opening the forum and seeing more bot threads and commenting on the fact that its overkill and your hurting your cause not likely helping it. In short its quite obvious you can't be reasoned with. Your on a crusade no one can speak to you guys about possibly more effective ways to get the message out when the bulk of the population is not here but elsewhere. If you have ever found a game or platform where 100% of the players who use the game regularly = 100% of the forum readers/posters then this would be a boon and I would give you a medal for being the first human being to achieve this.

So since your only hitting a very small percentage of the reading population who open this forum and see threads with "bot" in them littered down the page they turn off hence you get people who are tired of seeing new threads pop up on an dead issue with regards to this particular forum post such a comment IN the thread which is relevant. Its input which people have tried to give you guys in some cases peopel are more sublte then others.


SO again I would suggest a more effective means of getting the message out as you have done your job here and seem to fail to have commented on any of the suggestions issues i brought up other then the fact that the anti bot crusader forum group posts on average 2-3 threads on the subject per day.

Also since some of these threads are submitted for linden review lindens have indeed already seen the threads so your job there is done.

This is not rocket science but overlobbying has a negative effect on issues politically and you are in fact over lobbying and I wanted to point that out but you wont have it so there we are. I will join the majority of people who have posted and said that its overdone you need to become more effective in your cause and also point out that if you asked me to follow you on this tomorrow based on your forum methods and the fact that you overdo it I would say no because I dont want to help give negative exposure to a negative issue. I would prefer in light of the way its being dealt with in threads on this forum to say nothing because your hurting the issue at this point not helping it but you refuse to see this so go to it.

You could and would have more support if you in fact dealt with things more effectively and I will repeat posting threads and when people make their comments and telling them they are off topic and reported is not a way to gain support but to look silly and that is what has happenned here

/shrug

Trolls don't really care about issues, they care about grabbing attention on the backs of other's issues.

They don't care that people's livelyhoods are taken away by people who couldn't care less about SL other than to greed, but post about it on a forum, they scream bloody murder.

There have been several posts where the proponents of landbots claim to represent the average user while dismissing the claims of the anti-landbot lobby.

So to prove them wrong, a few of the questions were put to the population for answers as polls.

The polls have clearly indicated, the majority of residents do not like landbots and agree the use of them is selfish and disproportionate. When the reality of the facts slap them in the face, they ultimately resort to the lowest common denominator by suggesting we have no right to particpate in the forums.

Then when the polls really go really bad for them, they use the age old tactic of personal attacks and pissing matches to get the thread locked.