When To AR? (sexual ageplay)

Well that would be your choice but in such circumstances the chances are the bar would be threatened with closure. If the bar was in the UK and you bought that person a drink, you'd be breaking the law. Saying that there are plenty of bars in the UK where it's known that under age drinkers go, generally older people avoid such places.

It is not a good idea to make computer generated depictions of an activity illegal just to make law enforcement easier.

Where will it end?

In natzi Germany it was a crime to hide Jews. People were forced to report Jews even if they did not believe in the law simply to prevent someone else from reporting them.

Law enforcement would be a lot easier in RL if everyone was required to carry a tracking and recording device at all times, but that would cost to much so they try and make knowledge of a crime a crime so that everyone has to be a narc.

SL on the other hand is an interesting world where everything could be recorded.

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PS: Here is my new club policy's.

2. "Sexual Age play"

2.1 "Human" child AV's are NOT allowed in "Adult areas". Any "Human child AV's" will be banned.

2.2 "Furry" AV's are asked to have there "Species years" and "Mental equivalent age" listed in there profile.

Being small in size can not be used as a age indicator since animal species very greatly in size.

"Species years" are like "Dog years" and approximate the following equation (years * (human life expectancy/ species life expectancy)). The intent is to indicate how old the AV should look. (lines, wrinkles, hair)
The "Species years" should be equal or over 18 years.
Example "I am 23 lion years old"

"Mental equivalent age" is more complex and is intended to indicate vocabulary and social skills. They are equivalent to human years as indicated in the physiology text books.

If any doubt about filing the report enters your mind don't do it. I imagine the intent would be for us to AR things that are fairly obvious in their breach of the rules.

It is better to take snap shots and send them to the land/club owners.

1. The snapshot must include the UI so that we can read the names.
2. The snapshot must be directly uploaded and not uploaded from a file.

Heh, the "bad samaritan" scenario. As ever, I don't see any change to the decision making process here at all; the only add-on I would propose is a straight steal from drugs policy in RL. In most cases of drug posession in London and some other larger UK towns, there's a strong distinction between "posession" and "intent to supply". People who posess something are generally let off, because the authorities have realised that the suppliers are the actual problem.

I suggest something equivalent in SL: there's not much point in making a fuss about avs who have kludged up a kiddy looking shape & skin, but there is every reason to be very much on the ball about businesses who set up to sell stuff on that theme.

I haven't looked at the German video, and have no desire to do so. I'm not ever sure it's legal, in the US, to look at it (since that means havng a copy on your machine).

So could you quantify it a bit for the rest of us? It doesn't have to be exact, I'd settle for some range of 3 or 4 years (e.g., 15-18 and 12-14 seem different to me).

I'm asking because I'm concerned by the borderline cases. Kidd has only really been questioned once (right after the previous uproar a couple o months ago), and his response (23, if you must know) was accepted without question, so I don't think the majority of members would think him underage. But it only takes one who thinks otherwise to make trouble for me (and a fair number of other avatars who look college-age).

[Aside: I'm beginning to regret my choice of 'Kidd' as a first name, though it was chosen before I had any idea of this stuff going on in SL. But since Linden has made it available as a last name, I'm going to stick with it.]

On the German video, the Avs looked around ages 5 or 6 to me. The video should be legal to look at as it's a censored TV version with the 'bits' blurred out. I do think people should watch it to view an opinion on what has caused the uproar and to see that there is a little more to it than couples acting out private fantasies.

If I come across real life child porn, of course I will report it. No hesitation, no question about it.

What I will not do, is aid in the prosecution of consenting adults enacting any fantasy, no matter what my personal opinion of that fantasy is. If I see avies (whether they appear to be adults or minors) having sex on my land, which is public, I will ask them to take their play somewhere more appropriate, and if necessary I will ban them. But even then I will go no further. I will not be an informant for any kind of thought police.

So can one AR the self proclaimed moral police for harrassment if they are mistakenly reported for having an AV that appears young but actually is not? I think any false reporting should be punishable as well to reduce harrassment and make the "witchhunters" have to be absolutly sure before making their claims.

This whole ARing thing is getting way out of hand...

The way i look at it, if you AR someone just because something about them doesn't appeal to you, then your obviously only in SL to cause trouble for others. It's getting to the point where its as low as suing people. There are people IRL that go out of their way to find a reason to sue anybody. We have all heard of those who go to a all you can eat restaurant to eat everything, then sue the owner for not giving them enough to eat. Or they sue them for having debris in their food when their the ones who put it in there.

If I know what I'm thinking of doing is going to cause problems for others, then i don't do it. Thats called having common sense. It's something that smart people are born with. I just don't see any point in trying to cause other people pain. I get people doing it to me all the time and i can tell you it isn't fun being on the other end. So yea... if you do see a child avatar being molested by a adult avatar then you can do something.. If you see a child avatar walking around minding their own business, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

If you come across something that is a violation of the TOS or CC, by all means send an AR in the name of good citizenship. But don't go out on the prowl looking for stuff. Please.

If you AR anyone who hasn't personally harmed or offended you or anyone around you, or endangers the stability of the grid, depends on what type of person you are.

There's the type who follows laws and rules blindly and denunciates everyone who doesn't. Someone suspected to smoke marijuana, for example; I had such a neighbour once, and the police kicked down my door only to find the laughable amount of 2 grams of hashish, a non-addictive substance without any side effects, more harmless than the hard drug alcohol that my neighbour likely consumed without thinking about it. Such people usually end up monitoring the street from their living room window, writing up the license plate numbers of parking offenders and bothering the police with their hateful holier-than-though attitude.

And then there's the types who don't care about the harmless stuff, like a car parking in the wrong place or a neighbour smoking marijuana in the privacy of his home. The latter might even think further than the tip of their own nose and ask themselves if certain laws really make sense. Who don't behave like idiots that wait at red traffic lights if clearly no one else is around. Who wonder if it's ok to punish someone for speaking their mind, only because their opinion isn't politically correct, or if "freedom of speech" shouldn't actually mean real freedom.

Well, it's up to the thread starter to identify with either group.

I may actually know the avvie in question. The problem stems from not being able to change those first names. As well as her, you have had people with the first name "Nudie" and "KissesrHawt" in kid spaces. The latter two are nice parents, and have been otherwise heavily involved in kis spaces. One of my cousins had a mother with the name "Erotic." The first land I lived on was initially called "LoveSexy."

In none of the above situations were/are the individuals or locations engaged in sexual ageplay - let alone real child pornography.

Essentially, I believe the policy is largely a "sniff test," and is more likely to be applied to major infractions such as that viewed on German television. That said, the issue of names that might be viewed as inappropriate, coupled with other issues, are a concern. Consider the following:

1. Can a skin seller sell a skin for a child AV? Even one with "molded on" underwear?

2. Can a parent hug or kiss (chastly) their child?

3. Can a child AV say "I love you" to their parent?

4. Can a child privately take a bath, or go skinny dipping?

6. Can I be ARed out in public if my clothing does not accurately rez?

7. If a child sneaks into bed to sleep (and I mean sleep, not icky stuff) with their mommy, can someone cam in and AR?

I don't note these to be snarky, or find loopholes. These are, to me, legitimate issues that affect mine and other's RP in-world. My *suspicion* is that much of the above (except maybe #4, which is very gray) is on the safe side, and none of these examples get anywhere close to the stuff depicted that led to the AR in question - but it is still unclear as to where the line gets drawn.

Mari

Sadly there are some peoples that believe their duty on earth is to tell others what they are allowed to do.

Some people should understand that 95% of the populace when inside a lingerie store to redeem their voucher for a free outfit for noobs, would more then likely react negativly when a half naked obvious child (no not a midget,dwarf, or supernatural bean) wearing BDSM apparel. Walks in behind them. When that sort of thing happens on ones first week in SL it kind of puts most people off.

Yes the same people going around with their scripted genitals that reports you if you click on the wrong part of the screen

That child av is an adult.

So, can I shoot a child with a gun in SL??? is that a clear cut area for you too?

Should I be banned If I do?

Well, here is the sad truth of people that support banning / jailing/ fining other people for depictions of child sex (only visual, mind you... you can write about it all you want, apparently)....

And that is... we feel PERFECTLY FINE causing harm to others, REAL harm, when they have harmed nobody.

*That* is sick.

Seeing people here justify harming other human beings, and feeling justified in it makes me ill.

Same rules apply here for anyone else you shoot. They have every right to file a abuse report if they get pushed, orbited, spammed, or harassed.

So basically what you must do if you see something that you don't want to see, move your camera around and face the other way. Thats what the rest of us do. SL is a world where we are free to express ourselves. Some people wanna pretend to be kids possibly because they had a lousy childhood and want to at least feel as if they aren't missing out on a important stage of their life.

Given the way in which Linden Labs has decided to partially deal with the issue (cracking down on it without defining what it is), there are two ways you can go with it:

1. Report nothing, because you just don't care.

2. Report every single thing that could possibly relate to ageplay until Linden Labs decides it has had enough and gets more specific on what it intends to ban.

3. Report if you see quite obvious child brothels/clubs for paedophile fetishes

All I know is I am afraid to wear my "Who's your Daddy" shirt anymore.

Being used to follow the rules is a good habit. Not to mention that the technology has given us 2 related things:

- traffic lights that go red/green whatever depending on traffic conditions
- automated systems that should you ignore the red lights, no matter the reason for that, will have a nice fine delivered to your door

*locks*

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