Canceling Premium due to 300L stipend base

Bingo. I thought about getting a job. for about 30 seconds. I don't want that in Second life.I want some shing baubles, I pay for them,and go on my merry way. In the end, we all look for different things in SL. If you can't find them, then move along, enjoy Real Life, and don't get so upset over it.

It's great that you did well! But the SL toolset isn't "working your way up" in the same way. It's real business, and real business isn't fluffy. It requires a certain amount of artistic talent, which not everyone has. It's very hard for someone who has artistic talent to understand what it's like to not have it. It's the situation of just not having ideas. It's the feeling of wanting to create something but being unable to think of the details in a way that comes out acceptable. How do you decide which prim type to choose, or how far to drag the mouse when resizing? If by trial and error, how do you select the first trial, or work out what the next trial should be given your previous error? Remember, when you drag that prim, you have to drop it at a particular place and thus must have some way of deciding exactly where that is..

Even if you have artistic talent, if you want to make L$, you need to make things that other people want, which may not necessarily be what you want. And you have to deal with the fact that it's a competitive market; any market that's easy to get into and popular will quickly wind up saturated until either competition raises the bar so that it's no longer easy, or the social networks settle down with a particular company as the "official supplier" of that item.

The problem is that it isn't scalable: it isn't possible for everyone to earn L$ by making things. The reason why not should be obvious - if everyone was, there would be no US$ coming in, everyone would be desperate to convert their money to pay their tier, and the value of the L$ would fall through the floor. Now of course this isn't saying that people shouldn't be encouraged to try their best, nor is it saying that any particular individual can't manage it. But "making things to earn money" doesn't provide SL with a universal "working-your-way-up" activity in the same way that monster hunting provides one to WoW or other games.

That's true!

But..

.. (oh god, I am so going to regret saying this, because it's horribly harsh and mean to people, but I think it must be said... grits her teeth... gulps...)

.. you don't see many threads or comments complaining about it being hard to earn money. Even as a mentor and live helper I've never had someone actually say "it's too hard to earn money on this game, you guys should change it". But you do, however, see hundreds of threads complaining that the things that are popular with poor, unverified users (eg camping) are indeed popular. But, but, but, they shouldn't be popular! They should be doing something else! They should be buying L$ or learning to create things!

Are you sure they're the ones whining?

Can we have a thread about what you (by which I really mean "us", since I don't like camping much either) can do to stop new players wanting to camp?

This thread started as a complaint that some people are getting 300 and others 500. For those that don't wish to/can't afford to add extra money into the game after paying a set monthly fee, 200 a week makes a fair amout of difference in SL shopping terms over a month or more. How much it is worth in US$ is irrelevant.

As everyone is paying the same premier fee, surely they should receive the same bonus? Someone newer probably needs it more as they are just starting out buying their avs, clothes, furniture etc.

I think the reason its 300L now and 500L for older premiums is becuase they made a promise not to reduce it below 500L for a while.

Thus they dont want people (much like musicteacher's comments) Upset over them reducing their stipend.

So they are kinda stuck paying those premiums 500L a week

wheras it makes more econic sense to pay less - hence the 300L number on new premium accounts.

wanting to camp isnt automatic to the SL basic account expereince lol

It wasnt that long ago was no such thing as a camping chair.

Camping chairs are simply a way to game the traffic system. And if you dont use them youll lose the traffic contest.

Eliminate the traffic number - problem solved.

The new players will find other ways to make money.

Since SL logs people out for inactivity - the Lindens should technically be opposed to camping.

We shouldnt blame the land owners , though , they are just basically "paying the costs of doing business" which the traffic model dictates.

Thank you Musicteacher. I think I understand and appreciate your perspective a bit better. I am thankful that you continue to participate in Second Life and hope you stay with us for a long time to come!

First I didn't think that land owners were given traffic payments anymore, I thought they eliminated that.

2nd you sure should blame with the land owner if they operate in your sim, put up enough camping chairs and dance pads to max out the sim, and you can't access the land that you paid for...

Agreed. Nobody has control over that except the land owner. As for traffic, I've never received any payments despite owning in excess of 200 properties at certain points -- so I doubt they give them out anymore.

The only plausible use I could see (correct me if I'm wrong) is for the 'top' guys in the Classifieds who are all paying the full 100k weekly. They'll be ranked according to traffic granted prices are identical correct?

The only good traffic does now is to put you higher up in a places search.

Lots of discussion here. Here is how I see it:

The fact is, LL wanted into the money-selling business.

Since they create this money out of thin air, it is a very good business to be in. No cost at all, except the administrative cost. (Which they also charge for.)

As long as people are getting stipends, that cuts into LL's profit from selling them this money.

LL wants to sell you what they are giving you now, yet still charge you the same amount for your Premium account, which would then be nothing more than the right to own land.

The premium account is worth ever less than it once was, and LL has done nothing to make it more attractive. This is deliberate.

Many people will go for a premium account anyway, because they want to own their own land, even with NO stipend. LL knows this, so that much money's safe.

As for the ones who rent from a few land barons instead, that saves LL a lot of customer service. I think LL would prefer to have the vast majority of land-owners be large land owners, as that reduces customer service. So why make the premium account attractive to anyone besides large landowners? (To which the stipend is pretty meaningless anyway.)

Ultimately LL plans to cut all stipends, so that all Lindens coming into the system are ones they have printed and sold.

To increase this income even further, look for more sinks/costs, in addition to stipend cuts.

In short, they will continually charge us more for less. That is the name of the game.

That is how I see it.

All these arguments about "it's just a cup of coffee" mean little to me. Because I figure that it is a cup of coffee I'm no longer buying for myself - I'm now buying it for someone at LL. I really don't need to have my budget appealed to in a plea for LL to make more money off me, while giving me less.

coco

interesting -

Perhaps that indeed is their ultimate goal to eliminate entirely the need for premium vs basic accounts.

It actually could work.

The only ones that would truley be bothered are the ones who were premium in "the good old days"



More for less is relative -

in pure USD 300L a week is pretty close to the 500L a week was back when the linden was much weaker.

Also the ability to buy first land with the current prices is worth far more now than when land was less than half its current price.

Overall I would be in favor of having a fair premium account which was the same for everyone.

But I wont go along with the arguement that a premium account isnt worth 9.95 a month that some posters have been making.

I think one of the reasons that people feel this way is because Linden Lab already gives away so much for free here.

Think about it. Why pay premium fees when you already get full 24-hour access to the game, bottomless inventories and the ablity to store gigabytes of data on the asset server, plus unlimited download bandwith as the dynamic world is streamed to your PC. You get all of the features of a premium user - you just can't own land and you don't get free money.

It's like getting to play a very advanced version of World of Warcraft for free, but being told you have to pay a monthly fee if you want player housing and a couple pieces of gold each week. Pretty tough sell.

Linden Lab painted themselves into this corner with their "gonna change the world vision" (which I respect, but it does not make for a sustainable business model) and I suspect they will find a way out. I doubt that people that want a completely free experience here will be happy with some of thier decisions.

Hehe, good point. But you know whats funny. There are people that give up thier housing in Warcraft and EQ2 because there is a weekly in game rental fee, even though they pay a monthly RL subscription. LOL

People will look to take anything they can for free. Just human nature I guess.

Maybe this would help? Other MMO's charge 50% more for subscription fees, few enough of which offer anything even remotely like land to build on. Some offer guild-halls or bases but those are 'guild/group' owned not player owned.... and, as far as I can tell, always hidden away in some private instance where no one can see them unless specifically invited/allowed.

Another 'value' to premium is "control" ... not having to trust a landlord with control over your land and the ability to send all your "in-worldly" possessions back into your inventory. I have trust issues, control is important to me.

Even if I held little enough land to benefit from renting vs. owning, I'd still choose 'owning'.

--
My coffee habit is still significantly more expensive than my SL habit.

exactly why it needs to go

The places use their high traffic to charge higher rates on vendor space - or to s get higher percent of their employees tips.

I just have to have my own land, too, but it less for "control" (and not for "trust" at all ) - but for independence. A related concept.

But I don't have to have everything that way. I enjoy independence with my shop, but actually live in Azure Islands, where I "bought" land long ago, and pay tier to the actual land owners. I like that, too, but there is a very different feeling involved. I wouldn't want to not have ANY of my very own land.

Comparing to other games doesn't really work for me. I just think there is a basic problem with offering everything to every member for free, except for the ability to directly own land. I think there should be more to a premium than that.

I think it would also make sense to limit basics in terms of their inventory, etc., and some of the other ideas put forth. It would help the asset server, too, and cause more people to go premium.

But for some odd reason, LL doesn't WANT more people to go premium, it appears. (Probably the customer service thing.) And doesn't seem to care much if the asset server doesn't work half the time, either. To me it would be a no-brainer solution, though.

coco

Very good points. I think the biggest issue would be how do you change the policy mid-stream? P2P teleports caused a huge stink from the user base. And that didn't limit what players could do!

I don't think that LL was ready for the number of new people that came on board. They are still try to play catch-up with the users that they all ready have. If they did change what a basic user could do, they would most likely grandfather in all the existing accounts so those rules would not apply to them. That has proven not to work very well. I think all that can be done right now is to wait for LL to catch up to where the user has taken them.

I don't think it's that they don't want people to go premium. I just think that Linden Lab has painted themselves into a very difficult corner.

Driven by a utopian vision that virtual worlds can change the real world for the better, and that universal access is essential, they have rushed into some things too quickly - often without thinking things all the way through.

With regard to software development, Philip has said this approach is deliberate ... throw something new out there unannounced ... let the user base compain ... the things they complain the loudest about are tweaked in a subsequent release. We can debate about whether this works in software development, but I think most would agree this approach is risky as a business management model.

I share their vision, but I am worried about their tactics. The asset server and network infrastructure is being crushed by the weight of a rapidly growing user base that is 97% basic. Though some basics do contribute in a way that helps to support Linden Lab, it is clear that a great many do not.

This situation is not scalable into the future and something will have to be done before the entire project implodes under the increasing weight of their ambition and vision.

Whatever decisions they make, many people are likely to be upset. If their moves are too fast or too bold, there could be a contraction in the active user base for some time as people become adjusted to the idea that one cannot have all they want without paying at least some price for it.

The only other alternative that I can imagine is that Linden Lab finds a way to decentralize the asset server, perhaps open sourcing both the database and the server software in a way that spreads the cost of hosting and networking out to other businesses. This would make Second Life more truely like the Internet which does not suffer from such centralization.

The question is, can they get there fast enough - before it all collapses?

That's quite true, but my point is still that every time this comes up, it's always about what the campers or the Lindens ought to do to stop the problems with camping and the difficulties it causes... never about what the person actually typing can do. Now it is a big problem to work out what we can do about this, but turning around and calling the campers "whiners" in that situation just seems really out of order to me, and it's also avoiding thinking about how the problem can be dealt with. The one thing SL lacks, that it really needs for this situation, is a single entity with responsibility for a person's entire game experience - all the traditional MMOs have one. SL couldn't have a single entity doing that without breaking down the creative freedom of the world, but that doesn't mean that large numbers of people can't "do their bit" as it were.

The Lindens are interested in keeping new players. You can easily tell that just from their publicity - if you apply to be a Linden, you have to suggest how you'd improve the new player experience as part of your application. And the truth is, I'm sorry to say, camping is a positive experience for many new players. It's not as positive an experience as some new players have - but how can we make those more positive experiences more universal? It's very difficult, I know, but I think it's something that should be considered.

Eliminating traffic numbers will improve the quality of second life - (for new and existing players)

Simply put entertainment venues will survive advertizing and on their quality and reputations.

Skill / fun / impressiveness will matter - and simply put "WOW" will replace .. yay i can get lindens in this tacky pit of lag if i click this and go afk for 5 hours.


In addition -
populations will be dispersed more, combined with less accounts online /AFK camping will reduce asset server lag - thus improving peoples basic performance.

You're still asking the Lindens to do something. What can we, the people, do to make camping less attractive?

And, if we don't have traffic numbers, how do we sort Search?

This is an age old issue. How can you make the traffic numbers mean something? Most anything can be gamed, but I would think if you place more on the number of unique users and less on the time spent, the traffic numbers would mean more.

I was going to put in my 2 cents, but 2 cents became 500 bucks. My take is over here.

Please keep the discussion here on topic.

I concur with this. I struggled with it too, until I started adding up what I had paid to play WoW, EQ, etc. Multiple accounts, $40-$50 a pop startup for each account, expansions, etc. Then paying months of monthly subscription fees when I stopped playing, but couldn't bear to cancel yet. With all of that, multiple accounts, multiple games, I've easily paid well over $100 a month for gaming without batting an eye.

However, the fact remains that if you are a new player to SL, you are financially better off if you don't have a paid subscription (except for buying First Land, then selling it asap), but rather use the money you would have to paid for a subscription to buy $L when needed.

That's just wierd.

I don't care about the issue of new vs. old accounts or paying money for something I enjoy.

I think it's wierd that a game should penalize people for subscribing.