Canceling Premium due to 300L stipend base

Here's BORRRING!!!, but useful information.

The funny thing is ingame it tells me that i get a estimated stipend of 500... but i get 300. Not that it really matters that much to me, got premium for first land. The other confusing discussion i had a few days ago was people telling me to pay for a year to save money. I don`t like that idea for a few reasons: LindenLabs might close down (you never know the way things go now...) but more important i might not be interested after a few month, so i would have wasted money here. Its kinda the same logic to buying 10 Cars, cause you get a discount then

Well, I bought Lindens on Sunday, and I just checked again, and for what I bought ($40 USD worth) $200L is worth about $0.76. If you buy just $200L, then yes, it's about $1.05. So... I suggest buying in a larger quantity if you can.

Hasnt LLabs been trying to get rid of lifetime members this past year?!

Explain please.

Just curious. Premiums who are on 500L weekly. That remains at 500L as long as you keep paying your bills, correct?

As long I have an Premuim account I am getting 500L per week and what I have understand it will stay the way as long as I pay.

Morwen.

Of course as long as you say that present billing rate. But once you scale down you can`t never get that weekly pay again if you decide to be a full account again it wil be 300l instead of 500l.

Usagi

They could probably change it on your next renewal if they wanted to I guess.

I think now that the majority of SL users are probably not premium, and LL gets their money through the filters of LindeX and private island landlords (who take paypal from people, and pay tier from that to LL). So I expect it's not a huge deal.

And yes, a few months ago, L$500 wouldn't even buy you L$300

I think this is a perfectly valid reason for downgrading. Why should one make less in stipend just because they started later? It is insulting to be told that stipends have been reduced because there is too much money in the economy and it is bringing the value of the fake money down, the minority of people who want to make $$ off a fake economy are upset so reducing the stipend should help....however LL is going to put hundreds of millions more INTO the economy selling $L in the name of stabilizing the value of the $L when really they are making thousands on it. INSULTING! They really should stop selling $L before taking money away from the people.

Telling people that it's a better deal to buy $L instead of taking the handout from LL is insulting as well, not everyone wants to put more $$ into SL. I have never bought a $L, I will never buy a $L and the day they take away or reduce my $500L stipend I will downgrade as well, and when my $L stash is gone I will stop buying things because SL is a game to me and I already put plenty in with my quarterly membership and land tier fees.

To the OP, I support your downgrade fully, it is not fair that you get less than your friend because you are late to the game.

as for whether or not we will always get $500L, well nothing is for sure in SL, they have the right to change their policies whenever they want, with or without notice! It's in the TOS, they can do what they want, when they want, not be held liable for anything, and if you don't like it screw you! Sad attitude for a company that needs members to exist, but what can you do besides quit.

The ones telling people to buy $L are the ones that are trying to make money off the system, they need you to buy their $L so of course they support any reductions in stipends that LL wants to implement. Less money for you means more money for them.

Also I don't think everyone is interested in "making up the difference". Many people don't come to SL wanting to start a business, work a second job, or prostitue themselves just to have some spending cash. And btw yes I do believe we are entitled to some spending cash IF we pay for an account otherwise why bother to pay for an account? so that you can pay another $50US or more for a SMALL plot of land? Ok, I'm going to stop before I start going off on the land market...

Ok rant over, flame away!

Not all of us believe in this reasoning or even are part of it.......When i was inthe mentors we always told newbies the possible to buy monies. Greed for thise in the sellers market might and do like this..........

Remeber burn the "stipend " trash some big casino owners were pushing and try to break the back of the sl eco?? For what reason did they support this? Because its thelseves causing this mess, gesh its bad enough most people only comes to sl for the free money, but trying totally break the eco of sl? Or what about the Loony watabe land baron and is screw ball GF that tried to sell this own typemonies on sl? ANother example of a total disreguard for the users on sl. Its just no LLabs doing the BS here its the people that believes they are bigger then llabs themselves

When I signed up I read the situation regarding stipends. there are no surprises there.

Musicteacher, I think it is incredibly unfair that I can't get a lifetime membership with a tier-free 4096 because I didn't join in beta. The logic here was pointed out by someone else up thread: Google stock was originally offered at $100 a share, now it sits at $460 a share - terribly unfair that I didn't buy it back in 2004. I bought my RL house in Los Angeles before prices quadrupled, so now it's unfair to people who want to buy a home today but either didn't or couldn't back in 2000. Sometimes the spoils do go to the early adopters who are in the right place at the right time and that is just the way it goes, you win some and you lose some.

I think it's perfectly valid to look at the economics and decide that premium isn't worth it. I don't think premium is worth it. My land is on a private island and I'll buy L as I need them.

I can't fathom why I ever cancelled premium since at 500L you actually make a profit. But I did. C'est la vie. But the world is different now. It's not worth getting upset either way.

(I should say I have seen oldtimers recommending Premium as a great deal not realizing that new signups only get L300.)

considering how much non charter, "normal" land has skyrocketed - being able to hold 512 for 9..95 and getting 300$L isnt really bad deal. Especially if you wait to get first land when its there.

Its just a bad deal compared to the 500L stipend

Which in turn is a bad deal compared to the charter member 40 acres and a stipend deal.

remember if you put a store on that 512 - and make enough products to earn say 100L a day .. youd make 3000L a month - which actually is a proffit on the 9.95 even without considering the stipend.

My store was on a chunk a lot smaller than 512 for quite some time.

There is a big difference in giving a special deal to the beta testers and lowering the stipend so that they can sell $L's and this is not the stock market!

@ colette - hmmm....$3000 a month...that's:
-If you can create something that people would continually buy on a daily basis...very competitive market right now,

- it would leave you no room on your land to set up a house or anything just for you, which someone who joins SL for fun probably would want to do

- making products costs $L, texture uploads alone could eat up the $300 a week

- you'd probably have to buy a BIG chunk of $L in the beginning just to get the land since first land is so scarce, unless of course you want to wait a month or two for land.

- the profit would be quickly eaten up by placing a classified that might appear on the 25th page...

- what if someone doesn't want to spend their second life working? It's supposed to be entertainment, ie, fun, some people find working in SL fun, some people don't.

I brought up the business side due to the concern that the ability to hold 512 m^2 of land wasnt worth the 9.95 a month.

$100L a day proffit is within reach of many residents -
however my main point is that being premium alone open up oportunities that you dont have as a basic. Mall stores dont bring in a fraction of what a main store does.

Of course no one needs a store. And of course the OP is justified in his opinion.

I still see holding land even that small amount as worth the 9.95 - I see the stipend as a bonus. I do not think people should calcualte the value of a premium memebership based on how much their stipend is worth in USD.

Well, you can also look at the first land. I remember a time where if you sold your land for 2,000L$ it was a good deal. Now you can sell first land for 6,000L$ and you got ripped off.

That alone is about 20 weeks worth of a stipend difference.

Remember, things change over time. I want to buy linden at 350/1usd, but I can't because the market shifted. Many of us older players have been here through the thick and thin of what SL is. The problems of today are really minor compared to what has happened it the past.

SL is what you make it. It can be everything, but at the same time it can be nothing. How much effort you put into SL is what makes SL, well, SL.

To some extend you have a point. I value a premium membership based on how much I can buy with my stipend in-world. In-world prices are based on the $US value of the $L so in some way it's still the same thing.

The site is clear that you get $300 stipend when you sign up for a premium account now...can't really dispute that.

When I signed up for my premium I signed up for $500 stipend. I got great rating and dwell bonuses for a while and was pretty irked when they stopped those payments, but they weren't part of my agreement so I didn't leave when they dumped them...however if they EVER touch my stipend I will leave. Yes I know the TOS says that they can change that at any time and I agreed to that...can't play if you don't, but fact is $500 a week is what I signed up for so if that goes down I'm gone.

@ Dnate....nevermind I'm going to leave the land issue alone or it will be another 3 pages...yeah, it will probably take 20 weeks to find and buy first land...by then the value could be a lot lower.

as far as the problems now being less than the past...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Holy crap SL is soooo much worse than it was 3 years ago when I joined. The lag is worse, the bugs are worse, the land prices are worse, the bonuses are worse, the lack of rezzing is worse, the failed teleports are worse, the grid crashes are worse, etc....oh yeah, griefing is worse.

The only things that I think have been improved upon since then is animations, resident's scripting abilities, and overall avatar appearance. The ability to create animations is a change that took place way back in v. 1.3 or 1.4..can't remember which...the others are all resident driven (ie, resident's scripting, and skins, hair, clothing, etc) Most of the new "features" actually make the world less accessable in that they help isolate people rather than promoting community (ie, privacy "features"

Thats kinda a principle thing more than a value thing.

I think the textures really started rezzing poorly in 1.6 or 1.7 I remember we were grey for days.

i dont think lag is really worse than before most days
- although the asset server bogging down problem makes it feel that way - Lag is much worse during those times, that is true.

Theres a lot more vareity now and prices for clothes/objects is (generally) the same or lower.

Land has shot up - but realsiticaly the huge land spike up is Recent (since November it rose)

I remember a year ago peopel were complaining land was going down, Which is worse , really. At least with a rasing price you can cash out and not lose your money.

I mean no disrespect Musicteacher. I want you to know that I truly want to try to understand your perspective.

500 linden dollars is slightly more thant the cost of a large soda at MacDonalds in the US. Is your participation in this project called Second Life is so tenous, so hanging by a thread, that if Linden Lab even touches your stipend (which I assume means any amount of reduction up to and including its complete elimination) you would actually leave?

As somebody who is deeply invested here, financially (I own an island and have a business), intellectually (I am a huge believer in the potential of virtual worlds to improve upon things in the real world), emotionally (I have so many amazing friends here), and even spirtually (I feel connections to this place, my identity here, and my friends that are hard to explain without becoming somewhat mystical) I have a very hard time understanding things from the perspective of somebody that does not have these kinds of invesments.

Understanding the incredible burden every resident places on the central asset server (to store massive unlimited inventories for example) and networking infrastructure (to rapidly stream live dynamic content to us continuously and consistently) I have always felt we were getting a whole lot for our premium fees even without any stipend or right to own land.

Musicteacher, can you explain why such a miniscule amount of money would cause you to leave Second Life? Is it the principle that you signed up for one thing, and are now getting something else? Perhaps you are not in-world often, perhaps don't have a lot of close friends, maybe you view SL as a boring game with no significant societal impact. I would just like to understand why a dollar or two a week makes or breaks your desire to be here.

I've stayed out of this so far but have been reading the whole thread, however correct me if I'm wrong or have missed something but I don't think anyone has mentioned entirely leaving just downgrading from premium to free.

Musicteacher said both "I will leave" and "I'm gone." I would just like to understand why he feels so strongly about something that is really pretty small, at least from my perspective.

Oh ok. I agree, stipend is really a small thing, you can make more than that off one game of slingo or pizza or tringo, or whatever your game of choice is.

To be fair, Musicteacher also made this statement earlier, so it's not entirely clear what his or her reaction would be to the loss of the stipend. Perhaps "I will leave" means "leave the ranks of the premium members."As a mentor people often say to me "I do not want to put real money into a game." Leaving alone the argument about whether SL is a game or not, I think everyone would at least agree that SL is a form of entertainment. $7 a month in premium fees buys us the unlimited use of SL, its asset servers and bandwith. Seems like a really good value compared to the cost of going to a movie.

When people tell me they won't spend money on the Lindex, I always ask "But you have no problem renting a movie from Blockbuster?"

I honestly do not understand the difference.