Reselling Clothes that have Xfer permissions

I bought a PS3 at the store and sold it on ebay for $5000. Sony contacted me and told me I wasn't allowed to do that, and now they're suing me for $4401.

Wouldn't that be stupid?

I think it's crazy for clothes to NOT be transfer except in some cases. Some designers include 3 versions of a shirt (undershirt, shirt, jacket), so maybe they should always go together.

You should be able to sell anything that is transferrable, for any amount you want.

Yes, i treat people in the same manner they treat me, don't quite see any problem with it.

I didn't address your point that followed because like you say, it had no real relation to the original subject -- to which the OP already received their answer, but for reasons unknown decided to wave their flag a little; which i found rather silly because everyone here is quite well aware it's not about "sticking it to the man", but about doing some profit off the work of these very people one is at the same time complaining about.

Hence my comment regarding it, and if you found it "not contributing" then neither was the remark of the OP on which i commented... so perhaps you should lambast them instead, for making it in the first place.



I think a subtle but important difference here would be, people who sell their things and services through malls do it on their own in the first place and are perfectly aware of situation at hand. Rather than have said mall owners come to their shops, buy stuff, split and/or rearrange the original packages and have it repriced to make the mall owner the living. And then boast about it "look, I can sell your stuff for more!" to boot.

This isn't to say you cannot legally do it, but like mentioned earlier maybe it's worth thinking if ability to make few bucks off other people work is worth screwing things for the whole SL when people do indeed start setting their things to copy/no transfer. Something which is quite more likely to happen when you decide to do little victory dances and rub in their faces the "nyah nyah set your stuff to no transfer if you don't want it resold you bullies" attitude...

You do what you want with items you paid for.

These self-called "Designers" have no say so what-so-ever in anything, A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G once their stuff is brought and paid for by someone else. If it's transferable, do with it what you will.

It amazes me that these people, many who sell their stuff way over priced as it is, want to tell someone what they can and can not do with items they've already sold. This is bulls**t plain and simple.

I think many of these people have let this go to their heads and they actually believe they're rl designers. Get a grip!! You can not tell anyone anything, period!

I think the person who began this thread did more then enough to accomodate these makers of items. Because that's exactly what they are, clothes makers and item makers. Designers? Ha!! That's just a fancy name they've given themselves and nothing more.
Had it been me, after telling them I had already paid and brought the items from them in a very nice way of course, had they persisted in harrassing me, I would of told them to kiss my ass and that was it. Next step, ejection from my land and a banned to follow.

Clothes makers or makers of items sell their wares and that's fine. But once those items are sold, they can't say squat. All they're doing is showing just how greedy they are. They want everything for themselves because why else would anyone complaint over this?

I mean, be content that you sold the same exact item hundreds of others sell, you're no different nor are the items you sell from anyone else. You got whatever price you asked for, so be happy you did and move on. Don't worry what that person is going to do with that item as its now none of your business anymore, it was brought and paid for.

I have no problem saying that I was one of the designers at your store that night. I was IM'd by another that my items were for sale. At this point I did not have all of my shops open yet due to copybot. Many are worried right now about the long term effects and finding out we have possibly a full perm item we worked hours on being passed about. Anyway - I seen items for sale, that yes I designed that were parts of big PACKS. They were priced 6-10 times more than I sell them for. They were transfer/no copy, I knew at that point it was resale and not copybot. I have had items 'resold' before...big deal. Also if you remember - you were selling someone else's freebie...whether you knew it or not. That is the only item you were asked to stop selling. I did not tell you to stop, however Im sure I said something to the effect that you were ripping people off by selling it for so much. Im not changing my items to no transfer unless they are freebies/gifts. I don't mind items being re-sold that are 'second hand'... I am however uncomfortable with folks buying big packs and then selling individual for huge amounts - ONLY because someone is paying a lot more for the outfit than they should. Nothing I can do about that but set no transfer...which I don't need or want to do.

The attack you are describing - did not happen that I seen. If someone else made you change prices, IDK about it. I never told you to change the prices or take em down. You are making a big deal out of nothing. I never contacted you by IM, and had nothing else to say about the matter and I stated that and left. MY ITEMS WERE NOT TAKEN BY COPYBOT OR A FREEBIE - NOT ILLEGAL. It was more like you did some wholesale buying and resale. I was there to see what perms were on the items - not gang up on you. I also have better things to do than keep tabs on you and your resale shop. I do know that two other voices are not being heard that were part of this so called 'gang up on the little guy' event. I also do not agree with your perception of the event. The reason I came to say what happened is only after reading that you'll gladly tell who the designers were if people IM you...

I personally though the other designers were very respectful to you Rhaorth - they didn't attack you or gang up when I was there. We were trying to make sure we were not victims of copybot when you showed up asking if we had a problem...

My point of view.

Just a quick note - when you walked in & seen a couple designers there, you may have felt 'ganged up on'. I can understand that totally. We all feel and react to situations differently... I on the otherhand felt like you were having attitude with me the first sentence you said... which is why I had an attitude right back.

You were selling things I made that you bought, you still had my storename in the tag...you were not passing them off as your own - isn't that free advertisement for my store?

Just to reply to your comment - I DONT CARE THAT YOU GOT MORE FOR THE OUTFITS THAN I DO...I choose to keep my prices low so that more people can afford them. I also like to give a bargain for those who want the 'packs'.

You said you were closing your shop - no one told you to...you were only asked not to sell the freebie and you stated that you were closing all together. If you do actually open a store with you own designs Rhaorth (as you said), you will certainly get to be on the other side. You'll understand why you need check it out when you get a report of your designs for sale. With all of the texture theft and now copybot - designers and creators are gonna wanna check it out if you have a wall full of their designs. You bought my designs, you sold em...nobody told you not to.

I do have a store with my own creations and have had it way before reselling anyone elses

and yes julia you and the other 2 did tell I could not sell those items, I was told to 1 not resell them 2 not split them up, and 3 not to price above the original prices

I was not asked, I was told by ALL of you... yes I felt like I was ganged up on

it is all water under the bridge, at this point I have reopened and am selling nothing at all, prolly due to this thread.

I do not know the prices of the items, as I stated I priced according to what I paid with a small markup

As for the freebies, how can one be held accountable if they did NOT know it was a freebie?? That comment is just .... well unfair to say I was selling freebies as though I knew it was a freebie, and it was only one to my knowledge...

Anywho, the reason for my thread was to find out if I was within my rights to resell items I sold as long as perms allow it and yes I am... so I have done nothing wrong, yet you guys felt the need to get at me for pricing too high(in your opinion) and for breaking up sets and as one other designer said, reselling items that were not intended for resale... (yet marked resell)

Time for me to drop the prices and try to unload this stuff and just work on my mall idea and my pub.

I wish all of you (anyone who designs or resells) the best of luck in anything you do.

I think this thread has pretty much run it's course

I do not wish to see ppl attack each other (and I am seeing that in here)

the reason I stated I was rebuilding the resale shop was so those who suggested so, would know what I have decided to do. But that apparently did not fit into this thread in some way... yet was directly related to it as far as I could see.

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Americans in here, hope you have safe happy one.

I did not tell you you could NOT sell them, Im sure I stated that I didn't like my designs being sold for outrageous prices...but Never did I say you had to close your store down. Now when you came in, I was not waiting for you...I was just figuring out if I was a victim of copybot. You were IM'd by someone else to stop selling the freebie and IDK what else...I had already figured out what you were doing was not illegal or copybot. I think you and I are way too much alike in style and taste to be arguing over this - obviously we like the same clothes. When you showed up there - you were on the defense and sensing attitude, I totally admit I got one of my own...I had a lot of feelings about copybot that was stressing me out at the time. I apologize for some of my grouchiness being from that...you have to admit, rhaorth that this was bad timing...Im gonna contact you in world because I think we need to discuss the matter with eachother...We are bound to run into eachother and we should not be enemies.

It's their problem that they didn't put No Transfer on their clothes. They should have thought ahead.

Julia, it's easy to avoid the problem. Just No Transfer in future.

I make clothes myself and always put them as either Yes Copy, No Transfer or will put them as No Copy, Yes Transfer if specifically requested. Regardless of whether Julia did or did not tell you not to sell her clothes, if she has failed to put in place the proper protections on them (by setting permissions appropriately) then there is nothing she can do.

Sorry to be harsh, Julia, but you and your colleagues just need to chalk this up to experience and learn from it.

Conan, at this time I don't wish to change everything to no transfer. Im also NOT sure if I may have to in the future. I KNOW that people will resell things they no longer have use for, I know people will buy things to sell for more, soooo many people buy my packs to share with their alts...So I didn't fail to set the proper permissions, I want them to be transferrable. When I see things for sale that I created for ripoff prices it bugs me a bit but to me it's not worth it to set no transfer because of a few people doing this. I have learned in this world that I will be suprised by people's actions over & over again...

Yesterday I got an IM from one of my group members letting me know that while shopping, she came across a store that had items so similair to me that she wasn't sure if I had gotten them stolen by copybot. I went there and I seen designs that were really similair to mine, but all with their own flair added...but in most things I seen, it looked similair to something Ive made, in fact on a custom hillbilly outfit I made - this designer had something so similair it really freaked me out. So after looking around I said to myself I like her stuff, I bet my creations were an inspiration somewhat, and she's very creative. Im not mad, but somehow feel a little confused by what I seen!

We, as designers put lots of hours in our creations and I for one tend to hope that no one else will resell or copy them, but once their out, they are out! Im not gonna keep em to myself because someone might replicate the design, or buy wholesale to resell. There is so much happiness from being able to do this that a few little unpleasant experiences won't stop me. I love what I do Im trying to protect the designs with the right amount of permission restriction which may change to no transfer sometime in the future...

When I was an even newer Clothing maker, I had lucky chairs and raffle gifts - it helped me to bust into business. I did not have the proper transfer restrictions set, and I learned a big lesson over it...I did ask the people to stop selling the stuff, but really they could do as they wish...it WAS my fault for not setting those permissions. Now everything from my gifts, to raffle items, to lucky chair prizes are no transfer...It cut out a lot of headaches!

When this happened with Rhaorth, I had just got out of the hospital that evening, awake for over 36 hours, and still freaked about copybot and infact was going around trying to reset up my mall spaces...Im very sure I was meaner than I should have been to her, in fact I was the only one I seen that said anything rude. Whether she knew or not she was selling a freebie from another designer which definetely should have been a no transfer item. When a person is caught selling freebies, it makes them look bad. I bet Rhaorth has spent so much time collecting cheap and free stuff that she may not know that some things are freebies and rather than delete she wants to make some $ off of all this stuff...it's not for me to say how much she sets the prices for - and I NEVER told her to lower the price or take em down! Now that she says she makes her own clothes, it would be a good time to clean it out her inventory. I knew I could not stop her from selling them, I only told her it was wrong to rip people off and I stand behind that - again I have no control over it. Someone else may have told her prices to set their items at - IDK. I also know she was asked not to sell the freebie..

I know that Im an honest person, but I also know that perception of events can be quite different when your on the other side of the fence...I do wish her all the luck, creative ideas, and a steady hand to draw. Im sure she will better understand the mixed feelings a designer can have when seeing a wall full of their creations for sale. It's best to stand back and take it ALL in before you say anything to the person selling if you say anything at all. She just showed up asking if I HAD A PROBLEM?!?! At that point I got mad and told her what my problem was...I hope to patch this up with her though because ur bound to run into people in this biz and it's not fun to have enemies. Besides Im a lover not a fighter HAPPY TURKEY DAY EVERYONE!

"I bet Rhaorth has spent so much time collecting cheap and free stuff"

Nice comment, you have no idea what I buy or what I collect or how much time I spend doing anything in SL

I have not dissed you in any way other than to say I felt as though I was being attacked

and yes I did ask if you had a problem, nothing wrong with asking that.

When I walked in you and the other person were commenting to each other how I should not be selling your stuff so I asked if you had a problem

I did not have attitude, that is the problem with text chat, no emotions other than that the reader puts into it

I never get angry and rarely get frustrated, I am an easy going person who tends to not bother ppl and hates confrontation.

Hence the reason I just said I would close down, other than stand there being told what I could and could not do

as for the freebie yes apparently I had one for sale, and as soon as I was told I had a freebie I took it down

I came to my store with that other designer explicitly to remove the freebie due to the fact I did not know which one it was

that designer and I were very pleasant in IM's and nothing else was said by them about me reselling until we got to the store and you and the one there with you started telling me I could not (yes you said I could not resell your stuff and could not resell for that price and could not split packs) I do not recall you asking me to not do so. If I had known at the time that I was within my rights I would have told you I will do what I feel is right for me and moved on... however I thought I screwed up or something so closed it until I knew if I was in the right or not

Sorry to hear about your hospital stay, however it doesn't give you the right to make another feel like crap.. I honestly am sorry julia

We have actually met in game on occasion, I used to frequent your store, loved your designs.. we even spoke and were pleasant to one another

which is also why I was shocked with your (from my perception) attitude

As for now... I think it is best we just let this go, one I am being made to look like I am ripping ppl off which I do not think I am. just because the prices of a split set is more than you ask for the whole set, doesn';t mean I am ripping ppl off, maybe they only want one piece and feel that the price is fair to them

I am sure this looks bad for all involved, and instead of keeping this going on and on, I personally would like to see it drop, and we all move on

I no longer shop the yard sales, and no long look for stuff to resell, as soon as I sell off the stuff I have I will be shutting it down

I am having fun designing things for xmas and this is the first time in many many years xmas have excited me in any form.

I wish all I had was just a hospital stay to make me moody (not to downplay your situation at all)

remember behind every avi is a real person, and that person has RL problems just like everyone.

I wish you all peace in the coming years. If RL (at least mine) can not be peaceful at least I hope my SL can be peaceful

I ran a resale/yardsale place. I never had any problems with anyone, but then again, I made sure to check prices of the items in the designer's stores before pricing them myself. A quick way to see what you should price designer clothing is to go see a couple of the larger resale shops and see what they are selling for, but I still think the only way to be safe is to go to the actual designer's stores and see for yourself.
As far as selling singles that come in a package, I've done the same and personally see nothing wrong with it. None of the designers I went to had any notices saying I couldn't do it. As far as I'm concerned, if I pay for an item that is transferable, I have the right to give it away OR sell it, so long as I haven't purchased an item in a store that specifically says, do not resell our items.
I make clothes myself. I'm not a big clothing designer or anything, but I do make clothes. All my clothes are either transfer only or modify and transfer only. I do this so that my customers have the option when they don't want those clothes anymore to try and make a little back off of them. I definately don't mind this at all. If I did, I'd mark all my items no transfer and post a notice saying my items were not to be copied and resold by any means. If I found that someone was reselling an item higher than what I sell it for, I'd simply contact them with a request for them to lower their price. Even if they didn't lower the price, you still wouldn't catch me bashing someone period.
I personally find the bashing thing to be the saddest part about this post. Resident A makes honest mistake, so Resident B gets Resident C,D, and F together to all go and bash Resident A on their own property? I'm younger than alot of people in game, being only 21, but that's f***ing immature. If things went the way you said, I would like to contact you for the names of these designers because I don't know that I'll be shopping at those places anymore. It's one thing to request your items to be marked down over prices, but if they are sitting there on your property bashing the hell out of you for an honest mistake...well I don't make it a goal to shop at places where I know the designers are rude or immature about their things. I prefer to do business with people that are polite about a mistake I may make, as I am only human and will continue to make mistakes until the day I die.
Just my 2cents and definately not meant to offend a single person in SL.

person A did not contact person b and c

person a contacted me about a freebie I had for sale, unknown to me that it was a freebie, so I asked person A to come with me to the store to show me which one is the freebie so I could remove it

person b and c were already there and when I arrived I did ask if they had a problem (since I unknowningly was selling a freebie I wanted to make sure I was not doing so with their designs)

that was when person b and c decided to tell me I could not resell their items, that I could not split up sets and sell them and I could not sell them at the prices I had marked (which I have now cut in half)


last night I spoke with julia (she already posted here so it is ok for me to state her name) and she and I realized on her part and mine it was a huge misunderstanding.

Text is so hard to read emotions from, she thought I had attitude when I asked if they had a problem (which I had no attitude, I simply wanted to know if they had a problem) so in turn she got defensive and got attitude back towards me.

She is a very nice lady and yes I would happily shop at her store anytime as she has very cool stuff.

person a never really had much to say until person b and c spoke their parts so I would prolly shop there again too

person c on the otherhand has not offered contact nor apologised for the "attack"

Oh well...

I do not wish any of the ppl to lose business I just hope they remember this incident next time they need to discuss issues with someone and do it in a more business like manner...

such as julia and I did last night

anywho....

Hm. Thanks for the clarification.

I was fairly sympathetic til I read this statement.

I don't know the prices, so I priced them for the prices I paid plus a bit? That would obviously mean you DID know the prices and you DID know you were making a profit off other designers without thier consent.

Hey, I don't have a problem with people reselling with original store names at markups, that's someone's will, but call a horse a horse and a duck a duck.

She didn't buy these items from the actual designers. What she means is that she didn't know the price the actual designer sold them for because she bought them else where. I'm assuming at yardsales, but correct me someone if I'm wrong.

sae you are correct

my statement meant I bought them at yardsales sometimes already split up sets and I was not about to try to research the items so I marked them up (about 10 to 20 L per item)

as I said small markup

at this point I cut all the prices I had on them in half so am taking a huge loss but no longer care

if someone comes along and buys them and enjoys them then I am happy

If I had known this thread would have been a debate I would not have started it, I just wanted to know if what I was doing was legal and I was not breaking the TOS

huh?
first you have a problem with me making a profit off the the prices I paid then you say you have no problem with ppl making a profit....

and yes I did know I was making a profit off of someone else's designs... they gave their consent when they checked it to be resellable

oh well I was advised to not post here anymore since I got my answer and all I will end up doing is defending myself as per what usually happens on forums...

so at this point unless someone has a direct question to me, which I hope they would take to im's I will not be posting in this thread

To the one who suggested I stop, ty and now I will heed your advise... and yes I am seeing you were right (I know you are reading this and will give me a rash of crap in game LOL)

*hugs* where were you when I needed you LOL

Well, the request to offer separate "Give away" and "Resell" permissions has already been made.

Vote on it here. http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=2233

I too am a contnet creator if they were marked resell give away do what your partner suggested. Tell those who come round telling you not to do what they have already agreed you can, to bugger off. Don't back off, they have no right to even be on your property. Right click select more, then eject and choose eject and ban. No more problem. If they shout to you from where they get dumped if it is close by or IM you just mute them then you have no more problems with them.
As regards the freebies okay you made a mistake there but that is easy when you are unaware they are freebies. I would like to see Lindens put a check box that marks something as freebie so any buying it would see they are paying for a freebie.
A typical case was the jerk I saw at a welcome centre offering free guns to incoming newbs for 100L$. Thus creating griefers and ripping off newcomers at the same time, enterprising but one hell of a slime ball.

Just watch the freebies, reopen your shop and keep one finger on the eject button.

Femina