Age Verification Answers

I've said my bit, lets agree to disagee OK? There's always going to be two sides to a debate. I respect your opinion fully. I'm simply going by advice I've been given by someone I trust and someone who happens to be a Magistrate. Not saying either of us is right or wrong

I also thought it would be interesting to see what is required to join bud-TV.

It asks for your first name, last name, DoB and zip code. It specifies:



So obviously they are going to take that data you enter and compare it with some database they have like drivers licences or voting rolls to see if someone of that name and DOB actually does live in that postcode. Thats not going to make it very hard for teens to get access - they just need to enter a parent's name, address, DOB and zip code, all of which they know.

I wasn't sure how that was going to work, me being an Australian, because I'm pretty certain think they cannot get access to any such data on Australians (our voting rolls etc are protected by privacy legislation).

So, just to test the system I entered:

- my SL name and surname
- a made up DOB in 1979 close to my own
- a (four digit) Australian postcode instead of a US zip code

Now I thought, this is going to have to be rejected, no-one called Caranda Schreiner exists at that postcode with that DoB, and I strongly suspected that entering a postcode instead of a zip code would stuff it up anyway.

But guess what, it verified me. BOL! I now have a bud-tv account in my SL name. So much for LL's new age verification system. If it is so totally useless then I won't mind using it, but no way real life data gets handed out.

PS: just to prove I really could get into the supposedly age verified bud-TV, the video running when you log in is two guys in a cab called:

"Joe Buck and Abebe
Joe meets his sidekick and driver Abebe as they decide what to name the show, and the infamous squirrel puppet gets his name..."

TY for saying you respect my opinion but I don't think you understand it. LL is not the one getting your personal info with the new age verification stuff so your talk about how they can't be trusted doesn't really come into it, IMO.

Also, we don't even know what info the 3rd-party site will be asking for from UK people yet. It could be, if it's true that you must be 18+ to have a CC in the UK, that a CC will be enough.

As many have said, the details on how all this will work are vague. It's still too early to panic or start calling lawyers.

I do understand it fully. Do you understand mine? You said yourself we dont know who we'll be giving our details to and obviously LL will have a record of it. I'm not prepared to give out anything like that when LL already have proof I'm over 18.

Also theres this http://www.copacommission.org/report/ageverification.shtml Just to link one site that offers an alternative

Edit: I see your point fully now about "we dont know what kind of infomation will be required" If only LL could could let us know, might save all these debates

But we do know who is collecting the data - http://integrity.aristotle.com/ . And LL has already said that the only piece LL is getting is a yes/no on the age-verified thing. What we don't know is what data they'll be collecting.

Why post that link? It seems to be arguing for CC validation. Take that up with LL or Aristotle if you want - it's got nothing to do with what I'm saying.

edit: ok!

I'm not so worried about LL, I know their security is hopeless so I wouldn't trust them with any further personal data anyway.

I'm more worried about being asked to provide very sensitive data to a corporation whose main business (Aristotle) is the compilation and sale of lists of personal data and whose SEC filing warns about the state of their database security in these words:

That's just the required "cover my ass clause" that all public companies have to submit to. I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm not so much agueing for CC Validation, as I know many people cant get credit cards, I'm just trying to offer that as an option for giving out passport/driving licence/social secuirity numbers and what not.. Hope you can see where I'm coming from?

Maybe so, but its hardly a vote of confidence in their security.

Aristotle is basically a company that collects and sells personal data:



Their other products include "targeted internet marketing" - ie selling spam lists.

Of all the companies on the net did LL have to get into bed with one that does this sort of thing? We are supposed to trust a spam company that somehow our SL data won't get merged into their databases?

In the blog announcement, Jeska made the following comment in comment #38 (emphasis mine):

Welcome to the new world Privacy is monitored, phone calls are monitored, everything is monitored. So much for freedom. They can kiss my ass tbh. Where is Philip to answer all this crap? No need to answer that, we all know. he's got his pockets lined now

Doubtless that is what Aristotle told LL.

But, once again, its a matter of trust. You are trusting that a company that specialises in the collection and sale of personal data will not keep your data when you give it to them. And if they do, what are your rights? You don't have a contract with them, only with LL.

It seems fairly reasonable to me that Intergrity may offer various aspect or levels of verification, from which their clients pick and choose what they want.

So, for me, all this speculation is just that, speculation. We have no idea whether or not Anheuser-Busch and LL are buying the same "package".

I am not very thrilled that I am going to have to provide more info, but I am going to wait and see how this develops a bit more before I form a solid opinion.

Even though the verification is simple it creates a lot of problems, if it were flawless i would be all for it, but thinking macroeconomically won't cut it here.

please take the time to read this post about age verification.

/327/34/182060/1.html

Regarding the "they can just use my CC to verify my age, that's how it's done on the internet!" thing, there's interesting tidbit of info on the Integrity page:


(http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=46.html)

So it appears "the way it's done on the internet" may have to change 'net-wide.

Of course there's the whole another issue of why LL wastes development time on (integration of) verification system which doesn't in fact --like already pointed out-- ensure or verify anything, but that's another story and not the first instance of coming up with completely misguided solutions, so meh.

Ok, here is a question: How is this going to stop underage players from seeing adult content? I can subdivide a plot in a mature sim and mark it as adult leaving the adjacent plot unmarked. I can then fill the adult plot with every conceivable sex poseball and every bit of porn that can fit on it and set up some nice chairs in the unmarked area. I can then have a continuous orgy in the adult plot and invite unverifieds to sit and watch in the unmarked plot. As long as the area isn't visible to the sim in general, there is no TOS violation and yet the unverifieds can see into the adult parcel and see every bit of adult content on that parcel. What exactly did we accomplish?

Also, countries vary the age at which they are considered an adult and some countries do not prohibit adult material to be seen by what is considered a minor in the US.

Am I going to be denied access to my own land if i don't submit my verification to this third party?

I have been on SL for 3 years as a lifetime account holder, I pay additional fees for land using my credit/debit card through my bank. If I had been 15 when I started I would be 18 now and any material I shouldn't have seen, I would be jaded to it by now anyway. Why the hell do I need to verify my age through these nimrods? Why do I have to pay anything at all even if it's less than 10 Lindens to verify what Linden Labs knows already.

I've seen several people make the "I've already been verified by LL once, so I shouldn't need to be verified again."

"Verify" is a transitive verb, a verb that requires an object. It doesn't make sense to say "I am verified," unless the context provides the missing information as to what about me is verified. What LL has done in the past is verify our payment information, presumably to encourage us to spend money in SL. What they are now proposing to do is verify our age. It is possible that at some point yet to come they may want to verify other things about us.

Credit cards are not ideal for verifying age; minors may purchase pre-paid credit cards in some countries, or be issued debit cards that carry the Visa or MasterCard logo and work online as if they were credit cards. More to the point, recently the credit card companies themselves are seeking to avoid chargebacks, avoid liability, or gain new revenue streams by insisting their cards not be used for age verification.

Integrity is also not ideal for verifying age, and it can be hacked in several ways. However, they are willing to provide age verification for a fee, and willing to assume any liability that may arise from incorrectly verifying someone's age. For the purposes of avoiding liability, this is just as good as being ideal for verifying age. (Let's forget for a moment actually caring about exposing innocent minors to shocking and graphic adult imagery.)

Some people will probably end up being excluded from areas of SL flagged "adult," being unable to verify their age through the channels accepted by LL; I guess LL is willing to accept this. In a similar way, some people are excluded from owning mainland parcels, being unable to acquire a credit card (whether due to geography, poor credit, or limited means). Heck, a lot of people are excluded from SL entirely, not having the equipment or bandwidth required to log on.

I'm a philosophical libertarian, opposed to taxes, national ID's, etc. But I've had to make peace with the world I live in, and I've chosen to give up my privacy for convenience many times. I respect my friends who live off of the RL "grid," but they and I recognize that SL is just one of many things they forego for choosing out of all those government-accessible databanks; and SL isn't even the most important thing they have to give up. I think most people will verify their age without a second thought; some will never verify their age, again without a second thought; and a significant number will agonize over the decision and end up verifying their age or not. We're all free to make the choice that fits best with our world-view and life goals.

Well that's not the point i was making so not sure why you chose to quote my post but whatever. What i was getting at is, this new system doesn't actually verify in any way that the person connecting to SL with provided data is actually the rightful *owner* of this data. In this sense it's not really different from a "yes, I'm an adult" checkbox on the sign up page -- at the bottom of it all it's all based on hope the person supplying the information isn't lying through their teeth.

Very good point, and if they follow the patriot act they may be required to store the info. by the Govt.

I don't trust this at all.
It does not protect anyone if it is as easy as BudTV.So what is the need?
If physical ID is required to be sent as I am not in US then I am out of SL.

Can't go to my own sims.
Can't split my Sims to part PG part mature.
Kiddies can cam into a very very X property on mainland even talk shout across border.

I know they say that credit card is not enough but that combined with a typed statement by the applicant
"I Jamie David was born 5/may/1965 and I am an adult by the laws of my country/land."
would be more than is needed.

But truthfully if I pay with creditcard that should have been enough.

For COPA and collarme.com the below seems to be enough
"WARNING!THIS WEBSITE CONTAINS ADULT-ORIENTED, AGE RESTRICTED MATERIALSYOU MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OLD (21 YEARS IN SOME JURISDICTIONS) TO ENTER THIS WEBSITEBy entering this website and/or submitting the information below, you agree to all of this site's Terms & Conditions. You further agree that the laws of the United States of America shall govern this transaction.
To enter this site, you must certify and affirm, under the penalties of perjury, your actual date of birth in the following Birth Date Verifier™ form:"I hereby affirm, under the penalties of perjury pursuant to Title 28 U.S.C. §1746, that I was born on the following month, day, and year:""




Once again a knee jerk reaction not thought out not honestly beneficial to any one but company that runs it and gets all these neat verified addresses. OOO the Super Voter List verified by Linden Labs and you know they want those lists for 08.

Look at their Web site closely I see serious conflicts of interest for US citizens. For the rest of us who do not live in US which is most of SL this is going to be very hard and interesting. Consider that there are more Germans than Americans on SL now according to comScore.

I'm going to address just this one point:

VISA prohibits merchants from using their credit card as proof of age. Link

Why? Visa Buxx reloadable gift cards, usable just like a regular Visa credit card, are marketed to minors. There's no guarantee that the person on the other end of that Visa logo is really over 18.

Simply having a credit card is not sufficient for real age verification, regardless of what the porn sites do. I suspect they will also be moving away from credit cards as proof of age.

I havent kept up with the thread since I started it yesterday -- real life ya know. But I am seeing that people are confused about how Integrity is really working.

When I signed up on Bud.TV yesterday, all I entered was my name, date of birth, and zip code. It looks at first glance that Bud.TV isn't verifying my age at all, doesn't it? But guess what, in the background, in the few seconds it took for me to be verified, Integrity went out, checked databases of public records, looked me up, and found I have a drivers license that matched my name, date of birth, and zipcode, using that to verify my age. That's why they requested that info.

So, it really is easy. But it at the same time is really checking my age. In other words, I got carded on the internet.

If you try to fake this, the info you enter won't match your public records, and you wont verify. You could use someone else's information, pretend to be them, but if you get caught, you will be in for a world of hurt -- I'm sure identity theft will carry some very heavy consequences, at least in the US. Is that risk worth trying to get into SL adult areas?

Carry on with the questions, y'all, I'll try to check in again tonight -- doing RL yard work today!

Not sufficient lol.. if anybody steal the documents of his/her parents, that shall sufficient for you?

No big deal..

And the european players?