Island Fee Increase

I was about a month away from buying an island together with a bunch of people in a non-profit, cost-sharing arrangement. We were going to build us some beautiful island homes and, above all, a close and friendly community of neighbors.

Now it will likely never happen, because I doubt we can justify suddenly paying 50% more for the land, than we originally figured. This makes me very sad.

I feel yall...... I too was saving for our 3rd residential sim- we mainly do it for fun there is no real good profit involved. I was at 1k and had all the homes for it built (Luckily, the 3rd was to be nowhere near as complex as our current 2- so the homes took about a day each to build and i can just sell them as prefabs at my shop)...and then this happened. As dnel stated- I too could have just wated awhile more to make the new "set up" fee and id be fine; but this new price of 50% increase is just insane!

Also, i know this was stated already but ill just echo it- in 3 months LL has said that any older island transferred will be under the 295 tier fee. i feel that not long after that we will get an anouncement saying that those islands which had the 'grandfathered' pricing of 195 will raise to 295 in x amount of time. When this happens, i will no longer be able to keep our residential community unless i considerably raised the pricings. I guess most others will do this too.


chung a bung raised all hers by 30% and she has the old tier- either she didnt know the prices would be grandfathered and played it safe, she knew they would be but also knew that more islands would come in and ppl would charge a higher price n wanted to be able to charge higher too, or she knows that her 195 fee will soon increase as well..or all of the above

If you're a content maker your choices are clear.

Concentrate on avatars and not sims/furniture/prefabs/custom builds.

Invest less in land and more in a webserver to do content promotion and delivery. The web just got a lot more attractive for hosting your store, folks. On a website, you don't have to care what the person on the next parcel does to you, and the prices for webhosting are far more reasonable than a sim investment for your shop, even with the custom scripting and programming involved.

The change will happen, and I am very unsure its going to be to LL's benefit.

Thats actually may be a good idea. have a small shop with some products and list the rest on a site you can deliver them out of like slboutique (who btw no longer takes a percentage of your earnings)

someone mentioned they go there and shop when the grid is down.

I personally dont use it much to shop at all

but it is an idea. I still think having a store inworld is beneficial but non the less...they will be hard to come by ppl wont want to pay outrageous land prices, and people wont want to pay outrageous product prices; i sure wont.

yeah, but think about it, the stores I see mostly are huge ugly boxes with boxes along the walls. Most stores are not aesthetic in the slightest. That's something that a 2d store can do much better, and search much better.

I don't know, I am on SLX and boutique, and my complaint mainly is they are so damn hard to search. When I compare them to 3d content sites like Renderosity and DAZ3d, they don't hold a candle to them. I think perhaps integrating their links to your store would be a fab idea, though. That can save prims in a big way. Or perhaps developing a custom delivery system like theirs, is another option.

Keep a store in world - but keep it small. There's just no way now to compete pricewise with a new sim, so now's the time to investigate new options is all. And who knows, it may be to everyone's benefit, long term. I know I am going this route now. There's just no way I can justify a sim's expense when the web is so much cheaper and can take over so much of those sales functions.

Not quite true Hypatia

I agree the information SOURCE was Linden Labs BUT it was also made available to the financial media (Stock Market news services) under the epic code "sold"

I reproduced the article from the financial news service provider www.advfn.com which has some legal connection with the UK Stock Market and hence the FSA (UK) and the Securities and Exchange authorities (US)

I accept that may appear academic to you but the legal significance is that if there is any inaccuracies or omissions in the article there may possibly be legal redress, although you should take your own advice on this matter

Finally in reproducing this news I gave credit to all connected parties (copy write) and reproduced it without alteration

Regards

John

(sorry to be pedantic) -

its copyRIGHT and it's a press release. I am unsure why you believe otherwise, when it states that right on it. PR Newswire is a wireservice for press releases. The website you linked to is a financial site, but what you have quoted is a press release they have simply retransmitted from the PR Newswire, originally submitted by Linden Lab. It's not a Reuters or an Associated Press, not a Fortune or a Money magazine - who has actual journalists working on articles and doing research beyond what the companies simply tell them.

Yes, my uncle was a financial journalist and editor (since retired) for a couple of the major financial magazines so I have SOME CLUE what I am talking about. Please don't patronise me, thanks

Youre pretty much right; exept there are content creators that are making hundreds a day who are not moved at all by this. reading some of the blog posts its clear many underestimate just how much some content creators do indeed make.

Currently for me and my business i can cover the cost of the old sim tier in 2-3 business days on average(note i do not own a sim for my business) . with the new price increase of 50%, it will take me twice the amount of days to cover sim cost- that would be too much of a loss for me. a lot of people creating content and selling dont make a HUGE profit while owning a sim; but there are still those who do- and who can afford the new prices. I guess for the rest of us we do have to find other options or take the knife in our back and let it twist

I just dont get it though, in time every old island and mainland is going to go up- it has been hinted at in their vague responses. at these costs many are going to have to raise the prices of their goods- just how much are we willing to pay for virtual items? The prices on some things were high already and just on the "wishlist" of some folks, whats next?


Many also provide sims for people to visit free of charge. and many of these builds are anything but junk- i imagine those will all come tumbling down too when the 'grandfathering' wears out. and yes, it will happen.

I am not patronising you no disrespect intended.

The distinction I was trying to make is that because it came from a financial source rather than a financial publishing newspaper or magazine, is that some financial people may possibly rely on that article to be the literal truth.

Although I accept that distinction is blured with Reuters.

I think the problem with BB posts is that it is easy to give the wrong impression as 70/80% of all human communication is non verble. I trust you now accept that was not my intention.

And yes I work in financial services and am currently authorised

Regards

John

I suggest you invest in a spellchecker. Yes I can be brusque but when I see something that is clearly wrong I am oftentimes likely to point it out.



It did not come from a financial source. It was found by you on a financial website, reprinted from the PR Newswire (http://www.prnewswire.com/), which edits NOTHING that goes over it - it is simply a subscription service for press releases. The wireservice source, which is PR Newswire NOT the site you list, is stated fully on the press release, along with the phone number and name of the PR contact that LL uses. I am sure if I called the phone number, I would get Linden Lab's press agency contact, who would then likely confirm that he or someone else in his company wrote it personally.

That's not saying that its not part of the entire story, but it IS LL's release about their new CFO they hired, and nothing more. There is more to the picture. The second quarter profits of HouseValues was less than stellar, and that's not mentioned in LL's release.

There are many websites that do nothing but reprint raw press releases, and I agree they can be fun to read, but they are not the entire picture. One of my very favourites is ScienceDaily. But I do balance out ScienceDaily with other publications such as Science and Nature, and read what other scientists have to say. Oftentimes the press release is padded to look good to investors, and is not the entire picture.

I often write press releases for companies (specifically TECH companies) so take it from the horse's mouth. The money is paid to make it look pretty, not necessarily to tell you the entire story. I don't use anyone else's sources other than what the company gives me when writing a release.

PR is advertising, it is not journalism and may it never be so.

EDIT:

One more thing I forgot to redress:

"BUT it was also made available to the financial media (Stock Market news services) under the epic code "sold""

Eh? Wha? Are you reading the same press release I am?

SOLD is just the NASDAQ acronym for HouseValues. It was mentioned in the press release as his last job.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=sold

yes I see prices going up, I am unsure how I will deal with that. I currently rent on Caledon and also maintain a bit under 10k on the mainland between two groups. I tiered down a great deal however - I used to maintain not quite half a sim on the mainland, between my boyfriend and I.

I will see what I keep when push comes to shove when prices rise. Probably its going to be the Caledon land, as the covenant prevents people from doing banlines and antisocial builds. I am well situated at the teleport so no problems there either.

My planned build was going to be something not-for-profit and educational in the main, I could organise a nonprofit I suppose and come in under that pricing but my head swirls at the paperwork involved :/ I'll see over time after I finish the build, as I will build it anyway offline, and then decide if I take it to SL, or licence a different engine and make it stand alone. I do have options coming up, so I am keeping a lookout.

I'm not sure about that - just because someone can afford to tier a sim, doesn't mean they're going to want to. As I mentioned in a post on Linden Answers, the result of this is that the successful businesses will stay on the mainland - which unfortunately isn't necessarily a good thing, because that means they're stuck within the mainland 40 avatar limit, and so if they attract large numbers of customers they may ruin the rest of the sim and there is nothing they can do about this no matter how good a neighbour they are.

I can see the grounds behind the startup price increase, since it brings the cost of an island into line with what you would pay from a land reseller (it comes out at about L$6.9 per sqm at current exchange rates) but the tier increase can only be penal.

To jump into John and Hypatia's debate:

John, if I sub to the wire service, I can pass a press release stating that the planet Earth is going to explode in 33 days. Everyone who carries the feed for that wire would run the story, because 99% of the time, it's a direct feed that comes out.

Say I was on PR News Hokey Pokey Feed. CNN.com, FoxNews.com, Wired mag, Science.com., Mattel.com, Wal-Mart.com and Ford.com all carry the RSS from the PRNHPF.

It would show on their site, and because of the way it's embedded, it shows up as a link to their own page (keep people in their realm). I sent out the press release, and they run that the sky is falling. Does it make it true? No. Does it make these companies endorse it? No. Does it mean the source is any of these sites? No.

It means I put out a press release on whatever I wanted. Does it mean I may be laughed at? Yes. If I put out a press release that Madonna is dead, could I get sued? Yes. But it still doesn't mean a thing to these other sites that host the feed.

The same goes for the release you quoted. Source = author/business affiliate of the author. I've dabbled in PR, so I know a bit about it. Dealing in finance has nothing to do with it, unless you wanna break apart the words and show that that PR has nothing but fluff in it.

Oh no, I understand that- that is not what i was indicating at all.


Take me for instance, with my shop I personally could afford the tier but the profit left over would not be worth it to continue. and just because i can pay tier this month- does not guarantee i will be able to pay it next month.. Apparently someone read my post in here and mentioned it on the blog about me saying it takes 2-3 days to make my tier. Well, LATELY that has been the case, but it is not always guaranteed. she said "LL has every right to raise prices if ppl are making that type of profit"- So does that mean whenever the citizens start flourishing LL will cut that ability off? pls. i certaintly do not want to pay thehigher fee. atleast not a 51% increase.

Now, with my residential land- I make next to no profit and with the tier increase I will more than likely have to shut down, but first I will try raising rental prices and seeing if people stay

after all- tier is going to be raised everywhere, so I assume all land will be going up in price.

didnt anshe raise hers 30 percent already?

ACS price changes are a little more complicated. There are two ways of obtaining parcels on Dreamland. You buy (you pay an initial outlay for the parcel followed by monthly tier) or rent (you pay monthly tier only). No arguments about the terminology please. That's not at issue here. I'm unaware of monthly rental price changes but with regards to buying:

1. Initial parcel outlay doubled. So a 4096 previously priced at $20,000L is now $40,000L. Significant because the ACS price for a 4096 on the mainland is more in the region of $30,000L.
   
2. Tier for most parcel sizes (for customers after October 28th) increased to the same as, or within a dollar of, the mainland equivalent. Previously, it was $5USD lower at least for anything above a 2048 parcel. Not anymore.
   

Therefore Dreamland parcels are no longer more desirable than mainland parcels on the basis of initial parcel outlay or the saving on monthly tier. Zoning and community arrangements (like Dreamland Pride) are the only attractive selling points I can think of but given the lack of security people feel when buying/renting in private sims (particularly now) will they be enough to attract new customers? And if tier on existing sims does eventually fall into line with the new ones, I wonder how ACS will sustain Dreamland at all. Unless mainland tier is also increased of course.

Seola, what I was trying to say was there is a distinction between factual news that is released by a publicly quoted company into the stock market and good journalism, such as for example the economic commentary you get in the Sunday Times in the UK.

In the UK that function is carried out by RNS (regulatory news service). It is expected to be factually correct but it is not journalism, AFX News carries a similar function. Information here is controlled by the FSA and the stock market, is time embargoed (at least it should be!) and tends to move market prices. It also is relied upon to be legally correct.

On the other hand some Journalists comments can also move markets. In the US for example a lady known as “The Money Honey”, Maria Bartiromo a financial Journalist working for CNBC recently commented about US Interest Rates following on from a dinner conference with Ben Bernanke. See Google or similar for full story.

So the comments I made about the CFO was information carried by such a RNS/AFX news provider, and from such a source should normally be viewed as factually correct.

I hope that explains any misunderstanding that might have occurred.

Finally back to Linden and Second Life, I note that everyday news from Linden and Second Life is reaching stock market and other financial news providers. That has not really happened before hence my increasing personal interest.

Quite happy to meet you in Caledon Cay to debate this further if you wish.

Regards

John

I am seeing many people who now have the same concern regarding islands that I do. Seems like posting another question in the Linden Answers section will not be productive, so I am asking here in case anyone may have already gotten an answer or heard a clarification.

We were originally told that all Class 4 server islands will retain their $195 tier for now, even if transferred. And that this policy will be reviewed and possibly changed (dependent upon the review) on February 1, 2007.

Now I see that in the comments section of that blog post, there was a statement that all Class 4 islands will be subject to the higher tier upon transfer effective immediately.

What we need here is IMMEDIATE clarification. And if the latter is true, those who purchased based on the former assertion need to be given the right to cancel their orders immediately.

This situation is unacceptable. The constant changing of terms is unacceptable. What will LL do about this?

Please see here:
/139/e9/146795/1.html


It doesnt matter anyway unless they have a change of heart. You figure- they are extending the date and making people think their tier is 195 SO GET IT NOW. they are giving these islands on new class 5 servers too,some on class 4 yes. and all for the same price? not really, in the next few months EVERY ISLAND will raise. those who rushes now thinking thed be safe in the future, only have a short while before they too are plagued with the 295 tier fee


excuse my sp mistakes and such

How many people are going to leave because of this? I mean, how many people have sims and can just about cope with the $195 fee, who are now going to close their island? I reckon easily 25% of all private islands are owned for fun, places like Furnation, the Apollo gardens and so-on, and that any profit they make is a small amount of L$ donations on-top of rent.

Haravikk Mistral-


When the rent goes up I fear my gf and I will be closing our well built, hawaiian-themed rental community.


I wonder about other places too who are more for viewing then just a nice place to live- Bliss basin, etc.......... Doesnt sheh ave a ton of much visited sims? its going to be hundreds extra to keep running.

"donations"dont always work either as when ppl donate they only do thinking lindens, theyll throw in maybe 50.thats a nice amount in RL, but 50 in lindens is what? a few US cents

I have carefully paged through all the posts in this thread. Most of them relate to making up the cost (or not) of the newly introduced and potentially increased tier fees. All resonable arguments, all understandable worry.

Earlier this year, I made the leap, when the 3/4 of a mainland sim we owned was still so lagged by a few inconsiderate jerks to the point of unusability, to purchase an island and move our roleplay experiences to it. --Darkrose Island by the way (shameless plug).-- It has been a task, to say the least, to build something worthwhile, and still hold down a more than full time career, family obligations, and other interests. We have a market, and even some rentals; but a true roleplaying experience cannot be overshadowed by financial considerations. If a person needs a room or a house for a week or a month, then they need a room for roleplaying reasons, and it may not last more than the storyline. Neither will the modest income generated by the rental. The marketplace is an adjunct to our island, to encourage others who might not be aware of what we do, to see it first hand; it is certainly not a financial fallback by any measure; in fact, it is rather empty right now (another shameless plug).

All of this is to say, I invested the time and the effort for ROLEPLAY reasons. To provide an environment. Linden Labs has not given anything to me or mine (I entered SL the month Dwell stopped, go figure), and yet we struggle against packet loss, griefers, teleport failures, object rez issues, no image issues, grid attacks, unexpected and damn lengthy downtime, among other frustrations, all to engage in a story or two, all to say hello to a friend every evening. Allow me to repeat - I have invested approximately $4000 in this 'hobby' and I pay tier from my own pocket every month, so others might enjoy the experience that we have tried to create.

I completely understand the frustration. Will I pay the increased fee of $295? I am struggling with this right now, for it comes straight from my bank account. I do not earn but $10k in linden a month from rentals and the market, and that is given to new players who visit (500) clothing for the girls (3000) textures (1000+ some months) cool items others have created that simply --must-- be seen in Darkrose (shameless plug) (2000+) and loans, gifts, or other incidentals to friends, family, lovers, and adversaries.

I would hate to give up the rich environment that we have tried to create, and evolve, and maintain. I justify $200 a month for my 'hobby', but it sometimes hurts the wallet, and all the stress that comes with Second Life right now, it hurts the heart as well.

I simply do not know, right now, how to justify $300 for a virtual 'hobby'.

Really, I completely understand. Oh, did I menton, my wife thinks I spend...uhm... about $75 a month on tier? If she saw the bank account.. Whooo boy... *chuckles nervosuly*

I only wanted to throw in another perspective, one of a content creator that fully funds this experience we call Second Life, that others might enjoy the possibilities.

I think you are misunderstanding the source of it all. The site you indicated reproduced the information. It quotes the direct source of where the story came from which is:

/PRNewswire-FirstCall

Which is just simply a wire to use for PR firms to release that info.

The site you said which has to be correct by law, includes a disclaimer, which nullifies that:

8. ACCURACY OF INFORMATION : Neither ADVFN nor any of its Data Providers or affiliates make any warranties expressed or implied, as to the accuracy, adequacy, quality or fitness for any particular purpose of the Information or the Services for a particular purpose or use and all such warranties are expressly excluded to the fullest extent that such warranties may be excluded by law. ADVFN, its employees, Data Providers and affiliates may or may not hold investments in the companies referred to in the Information and Services. You bear all risks from any uses or results of using any Information. You are responsible for validating the integrity of any Information received over the Internet.

There's tons more jargon about them providing 3rd party content as well. 3rd party content is not regulated by anything and they agree to provide it, but disregard the source for taking responsibility for it's information.

TThis means that they posted from the 3rd party feed and is NOT considered to be an RNS/AFX news provider, but rather a reproduction for informational and entertainment purposes.

In any event, the article lists where ADVFN got it, and at the end where the PRWire got it, which indicates LL.

Anyways, they've extended the chance to buy sims at the old price til the 15th in an 'overwhelming resident response'. But I'm thinking this response isn't so much as 'Hey I want more time to buy', but more as 'I can't believe you are raising it that much!'.

Here's to hoping to a LOT smaller increase.

Gabriel, I remember your castle well, even if I wasn't the most appreciative of neighbours. However I sympathise with your plight as you, and no doubt many other sim-owners, look to the future and see a 50% price hike coming your way. While you've still got time, it would be an ideal opportunity to ask around your DarkRose RP group and ask your group members if any would be interested in contributing a monthly share towards the tier. The response might not be earth-shattering, but every little bit helps to ease the financial burden you're carrying at the moment. A burden which could quite easily ruin the fun for you and the other members of your RP group.

Hey everyone. I just bought a sim/private island about 3 weeks ago and before the price change. They billed me the old price. A week after I bought it, the prices went up. So while I was still waiting for the private island to be built, the price went up and I hadn't been contacted yet about the completion of my private island. I finally got it 2 days ago. So, my question is, what price am I paying for tier? Since they upped it in the middle of building it, do I pay the old tier? Or do I pay the 295 now? For this month do I pay 195 and then 295 next month?

Thanks everyone

You'll keep getting billed at the price of $195/month.



If you want absolute peace of mind, email the concierge or ask on the Linden Answers forum .