Now I might need a passport to play SL?

Then don't complain when you find your minor daughter on the main grid/msn or whatever sexually involved with an older man?

As parent you have your responcibility. And yes, it is impossible to check everything, but that doesn't take away your responcibility to what you can.... and concerning computers/internet you can do a lot with simple rules.

But most of all... and that seems very hard for some parents... get involved with your children. Know what they are busy with.... what they are interested in (yes... even if it is sex... we had here some very open en honest discusion about that here).... guide them... be there for them.... Your child is more worth then the loan for the third car or that second house at the beach.

Morwen.

Agreed.


---------*speaking generally here*---------------

Especially when your child is AWAY from your home, you really would be surprised what some of them get into


Lots of kids do have computers in bedrooms these days, I think its best to keep the computer in living area where theres a flow of 'traffic'...But thats off topic, isnt it.


We live in a society where many parents -both- work their butts off to bring in an income. A society where children stay on video games and computers all day. Its harder and harder for parents to be "involved"..and even so, your children need privacy..and thats where the 'secrets' develop sometime.

Whether you want to believe it or not, theres a chance your child is up to something sour you have NO idea about, no matter how involved you are.

This is so true Morwen here in Holland if a child those something that against the law parents
are held responsible for there child's actions.
Anyway parents should not let children on computers without precautions to prevent them
to see "adult" stuff.
There is enough software on the net to help you do this, or hell even windows helps you with that by password protecting access to the computer.
Hell most computers can be password protected at startup with the BIOS.
There are so many ways of doing it, is it fool proof no sorry nothing is 100% fool proof
but it is a start.


Wolvie

I know Wolvie, I am Dutch as well. And I think that it is good that an parent is hold responcible for the actions of a child.

My youngter used to have a computer on her bedroom (for homework), but no Internet access. For Internet she could use the computer that used to be in the living room.

On both computers she had limited rights, so she could not install things and alike. There were content filters installed so could not get on certain sites (also on her own request).
If she wanted to buy through the Internet and a CC, she came to me. We discused it and I made the payment, not she.
We often talked what about what she busy with (on the Internet, but also of cause about a lot of other things too).
Set rules about the time that can be spend behind the computer/on Internet. Children should not sit all day behind a computer (which was here never a problem, she likes to much to be outside).

And as said, you cannot check everything. And no, you cannot look inside a child head... but if you are involved enough with them, you see when they are up to something or when something is wrong.

Well, now she is 18... and what we builded to over years is now for a big part hers to manage... giving and taking responcibiliy. And still so often she comes to me to talk about things and discus them... or just wanting a listening ear .

Morwen.

Terms of service section 2.1 states:

"You authorize Linden Lab, directly or through third parties, to make any inquiries we consider necessary to validate your Registration Data."

yet further down they state:

"you acknowledge that Linden Lab cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information submitted by any user of the Service, nor any identity information about any user."

and section 2.2 states:

"Linden Lab cannot absolutely control whether minors gain access to the Service other than the Teen Area, and makes no representation that users outside the Teen Area are not minors. Linden Lab cannot absolutely control whether adults gain access to the Teen Area of the Service, and makes no representation that users inside the Teen Area are not adults."

It's a Double bind.

The validity of personal information is still questionable even after all is said and done.
A quick snoop into their parent's wallet/purse or tax forms will give them all the information needed to continue playing on an adult grid.

Agreed for the most part my son has his own computer to play games with no internet access atm when he is old enough let's say 16 then maybe i will give him internet access.
But again with software that will filter away stuff, want to install software cool then come and talk to me i will install it.
I even will install software that will monitor him what he does (yeah big brother is watching you well i don't give a rats ass what you think within my home I decide what they do on the PC)

Still I know they find ways to see "adult" stuff if not at home then they go to a friends home.
And maybe this sounds harsh what i just wrote but i did my part as a parent to prevent as much as i can.
I he want to talk to me about the birds and the bee's well we gonna talk about it, openly
In the end i know he will be subjected to "adult" stuff so be it but as a parent i did my best.

Wolvie

Well all i can say that's the best way it has to be done
And it sounds so bloody familiar to me it's something i discussed before with a parent

Wolvie

That isn't going to work , cause most under age kids can go in their moms purse or dads wallet and get their drivers card or SScard and give to LLabs ..

So how is this going to stop the under age coming into adult areas in game ?
Jeez you all don't think like most kids think . having children my ownself you have to think like they think to go around how they have access to many things in RL ...

I remember when my own daughter came to me one time and said, Mom I need your SSN: for school on this paper could you fill it out . well right then and there my own daughter had my SSN . then I also had to put some other information on this paper for school . there was much on that paper . So just like here in game kids in RL have access to anything they want now days;

so doing this age and Identity verification isn't going to stop the under age coming in a adult game . Sorry LLabs you need to come up with something better then this to stop kids under the age of 18 ...

Everyone I ever saw getting started on the net developed an addiction that takes some time to fade. Unleashing the net on a 16 year old with raging hormones is not something I'd like to try.
For that reason, I started my kids with access before they were 5. They have no interest at all in surfing adult sites, spending all day chatting up guys on MSN, joining "social" sites and having profiles etc. By the time they are old enough to be interested, the net wont be something shiny and new to them and they'll know how to use it safely.

Well if LL had said this is a optional way to get verified with out the use of a CC great!!!
But to say it to prevent under aged peeps to see adult stuff.... sorry i have to agree with you and as i posted before it in the hands of the parents to do so... not LL

Wolvie

Well that is also a way of doing it.
I will not argue on ways to do it best every parent has to decide that them self.

But as long as the parents are involved with the process that is great!!

Wolvie

"I don't get it. People have been asking for a verification system. LL gives us one, and everyone is up in arms? Think about it, how can a griefer keep coming back if he must prove who he is? It keeps teens off the grid"

Have you considered the possibility that these are TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE rather than one which has changed its mind?

Did you all give Yahoo and Google your SSN, license number, passport, address, etc? Do you realize your kids can easily access porn on those places in seconds? Are you prepared to offer this information to those places so that you can surf the web? Of course you aren't. We accept that parents are responsible to monitor what their children do. This is no different. SL has even been lauded on these forums and in the media as the "next generation" internet.

I think some of you are going to be shocked how empty the grid is about to become. You think you've been experiencing a slowdown in sales? You haven't seen anything yet.

Hmm. It looks like I'll have to correct myself. I've been pointing out that age verification is optional; in reading more carefully, it is only optional on the main grid. All Residents in the Teen grid must verify their age:



Let's see...many minors don't have driver's licenses, passports, etc.; thank goodness the IRS has been requiring Social Security numbers for people of all ages lately! <--sarcasm

As one that does not have a Passport, nor a Drivers Licence, and does not live in the US (live in Australia), can some one explain to me how I would get age verified? We don't have any national ID card here, so that idea is out also.
Seems to me I won't be able to, which means that I will be banned from my own land (OMG I have poseballs), or have to knowingly rate my land wrongly just so I can access it. The whole idea is laughable.

That I would not want any internet company having my private records is a moot point here. Fact is SL will become restricted simply because I have had no need of a passport, do not drive, and my country does not have a national ID card.

Ama

it´s very simple, i will NOT give any of these data to anyone over the net (and especialy a us based company... lol). i allready prooved that i am adult when i signed up. i will just withdraw my lindens and quit... bye bye

I'm in the same position, just in the UK.
SL isn't going to become totally restricted, we'll still have the choice of disney level (PG) and disney level (mature), just not the none-disney level (mature + adult)

I'm seriously considering selling my mature land before the prices drop.

I am concerned about what constitutes "adult content." The blog says to use common sense, and that is fine for an overt sex-shop or something, but what about grey areas? For example, what about a private residence where the homeowner happens to have a sexgen bed? As we all know there is no way to really prevent someone from entering your home.

Or what about people walking around with prim genitals set invisible? An underage player could still see the genitalia by setting view invisible, so does this constitute adult content?

No, it sounds like people wanted insta-create, throw-away accounts abolished as they abetted griefing. A minority of people have expressed concern "for the children" or even from having their own eye offended, but this doesn't seem to be a significant portion of the forum writers.

I've known other boneheaded LL policy changes that have yielded more strife than the "disease" they cured. Should "verification" come to pass, it will be another. Unlike many others, this initiative has a much greater potential to hit LL's foot.

Subdivide a 16m² parcel where the bed is and mark that as adult, and leave the rest of the house as non-mature on mature land and you'll be covered .

this is interesting.

I suppose thats to keep adults away from the teens - theres a fair amount of parent paranoia on that subject.

It also says something about whether they are planning to merge the grids.

Griefing is the most overblown issue in Second Life.

Couple of thoughts:

Age Verification will definitely lower the SL unemployment rate.

Lower Land prices.

Kill the traffic of adult business venues. (lower camping)

Reduce the conncurrent number of people on the grid.

Slow the rate of signups.

One of those is the cure worse than the disease questions though.

LL say in the recent blog entry on this: "Landowners are morally and legally responsible for the content displayed and the behavior taking place on their land."

Well Ama even if you do rate your land wrongly just so you can access it, you will then be open to 3rd parties (probably ones who can't get age verified either and so can't get into Mature-flagged land to do this) having SL sex on your site, an abuse report being filed against you and LL throwing you off the system thus depriving you of your land. I hope you don't own a lot of land. For large landowners (and self-evidently enough most land in SL is owned by large landowners) the risks become much higher. If I own 3 sims of land and someone else has a sex party on my land, I am open to an abuse report. The only sanction SL have I'm aware of in that case is banning someone. If I own 3 sims of land that amounts to US$10000 loss. What will I do? I will rate all my land Mature to protect myself. EVEN PG SIMS. Once 50% of a sim is Mature rated, it will be impossible to navigate for non-verified users. I think this logic is fairly inescapable and it means within a month or so of these regulations coming in most of the grid will be unusable for non-verified users.

Some people CANNOT get verified like Ama, so will not because they resent the privacy invasion. What will happen to their investments in SL?

yep i totally agree SL's userbase is goging to drop dramatically because of this
and thats going to have a snowball effect on business's and the ecconomy




its not the fact that they are implementing verification its how they are doing it
and the fact they are making us pay for it
it's not like Linden Labs are a top notch reputable company look at thier background
in here they are providing an unstable service and treat us like gunea pigs now we have
to pay more for that and also risk giving out personal details that if got in to the wrong hands could be used for fraudulant use




i'll proberbly be leaving aswell, along with thousands of other people,
Linden Labs are all about take take take they give nothing back its just a one sided ride
im beginning to see that now






LL do you see a pattern forming here ?

How can you tell it's Friday night? LL made another vague new policy announcement with just enough information to stir up lots of questions and controversy then left for the weekend.

Great timing too -- a day after their town hall to address the open letter, and a few hours after some "network issues" caused a grid-quake that shook most people off line.

Will I verify? (again? I thought I verified when I went premium?) I don't yet. I don't know enough about it to know whether I will or won't. I'm outside the US and the moment I'm not thrilled about having to provide sensitive personal information to an unknown company in another country who doesn't have to abide by the same laws I do.



What concerns me is this half-baked concept that I have to bear the ultimate responsibility for what people do or see on the portion of their server that I'm renting. I pay them for a private island... but their doublespeak says I 'own' the island but I don't own anything. I bought it but I didn't buy it. I paid for the island but I really paid for the service of them setting it up. It's mine, but it isn't. However, they expect me to be able to police it 24/7 incase someone comes and does something questionable?

I suppose if we take bits and pieces from this, and bits and pieces from the earlier blog post about estate owners having the option of self-governance or whatever, could private island owners declare autonomy from LL? After all, if I'm responsible for all behavior that occurs on my island, that means I must have some way to control said behavior. And if I choose to receive the abuse reports, and choose to excercise more governing powers... well why can't I just write my own TOS and CS for my island?

That's what they want in the end, isn't it? Just to collect our money, provide the servers, and let the residents / landowners take care of everything else?


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