Ripped off by a bot

Hi,

I have experienced something really, really annoying a few minutes ago.

My fiancee had bought 2 parcels of 512 sq.m. each next to our house. She wanted to offer one to me to put my shop on.

She put the parcel for sale for L$1, but forgot to choose a specific buyer (i.e. me). Then, a bot named "Mysore Masala" popped out of nowhere, immediatly bought it and put it back for sale for L$5038.

Now, here's the problem : why is Linden Labs letting this happen ? What is the point in releasing the source code if it allows people to do that kind of things ?

In my opinion, they should have never released their source code. Second Life implies real money. I wouldn't mind losing "virtual money" if I didn't pay for it.

Is there anything that can be done to avoid this in the future ? Is anyone going to prevent this ?
Please, answer with constructive comments. I don't need any "you should have...", I know we did a mistake, and I know what I shouldn't do, now.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

um ... nm you know (coughcheckbeforeyousellcough)

and its not the evil open source, ppl were already debugging and hacking the data streams way before that, and not only in this system just a fault of sending information accross a public medium

Yes ripped off and LL will do nothing about it.

Maybe the landbot operator will sell back because its an obvious mistake. LL should do something about this and not allow 1L land sales to "anyone" and gray it out unless you specify a person's name. Is that so hard to ask? People are going to continue to make this mistake unless something gets fixed while the people that bought the land get a quick 20 dollars.

Hi Mechant. This is unfortunatly a common problem now so don't feel bad. Send a message to the person and ask for your land back. Usually they return mistakes like that.

In the mean time I have made a proposal to help protect people who get caught in your situation. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-431

If you like this proposal just log in to vote for it. The Lindens have already noticed it so now it just needs community support to move forward.

I agree it is ridiculous that a bot can instantly take your land if you make this common "mistake", and telling people to just not do this rather than put better safe guards in is just silly.

Good luck getting your land back. I hope you do.

You can: actually stop and heed the confirmation message that comes before the land is put out for sale.

There's also a reasonably well-written sticky on how to sell land without getting hit by a bot on this very forum, in addition to the warnings in the sell intrface itself.

It sucks when it happens, but it isn't as if there aren't warnings. The best you can hope for is that the bot operator is kind. LL has said many times they do not intend acting as a plice force, except in cases where grid stability is threatened.

First, if you admit you made a mistake, why did you title the thread "Ripped off by a bot"? When you set land for sale at a certain price (and incidentally the dialogue windows figure the price per square meter for you and give you a chance to change your mind before confirming), how is it ripping you off when someone buys the land you set for sale at the price you ask?

I am interested in hearing what the landbot operator says when you ask for your land back. So far these landbots have a pretty good track record for returning land when a mistake has been made, but not all of them do.

I think the reason LL lets people buy land that is set for sale by the owner at a price set by the owner is they want us to have our own little economy in SL. They also let us buy clothing, scripts, buildings, etc. from people who want to sell them at prices set by those who want to sell them.

It may be you will be happier with other virtual realities that aren't so free--for example, ones where you are assigned your space by the corporation or can only buy from the corporaton.

As for advice for the future, I honestly don't think you or your friend will make this mistake again. "Once burned" and all that. Although, come to think of it, it has happened to me more than once.

I was expecting this kind of comment...

Do you really think my fiancee wanted to sell the land to a bot owner for L$1 ? What I mean is something should be done to avoid these situations. People aren't perfect and do errors.

There 'are you sure?' and 'are you really sure?' prompts when selling land. She WAS warned that she would be selling it for L$1 to ANYONE. Yes she made a mistake, and unfortunatly it was a costly one. I don't really know what else LL or anyone can do if people do not heed the warnings and dialogues.

This could have happend to you if a third party was standing there and grabbed it too. It's just that the swiftness of the landbots tend to make you pay for your mistakes faster and sting a little more.

Unfortunatly to the uninitiated there is no "dialogue" that says Danger Danger! If you proceed with this sale a bot will come out of nowhere and instantly take it!

That why it asks to confirm before you do it. Once she clicks the confirm button, it's a free for all.

Which is why I proposed a delay in the time it is actually listed in the system. So during this delay only people in the sim can see that the land is for sale. it isn't an unreasonable safeguard. hell I remember a couple months ago when the listings were delayed due to lag. LOL

I don't know about you but reccently sold 512m2 lot and when I went to check transactions no name was listed in the website. Can you even see who bought the land accidentally by the way?
Anyone else experienced or notice no names showing up in transaction history?

And it is not only land that is being ripped off now. the bots are grabbing prims too.

See my separate thread on Automated Burglary

It is sad it happened. But this is not a "rip off". Someone made a mistake, that is all... and yes, there are warnings given.
As the system administrator here at the company I work for always says: "When a message pops up... READ IT! There is a reason it pops it."

Morwen.

Why do we keep slamming people who are alone in an area and are not perceiving a threat and assume that they have 30 seconds to complete a transaction, so they do so? Not everyone reads this forum with regularity. Not everyone knows about the bots.

Two words - due diligence. Why take the chance? What if the buyer crashes and someone flys over while the seller is waiting for the buyer to get back on, and proceeds to buy the land? What if the sim crashes and someone gets to it before either of the original parties can get back? There are a million reasons to do it properly that have nothing to do with bots. Take you time, make sure its right, fill in all those boxes, read the pop ups. Due diligence.

Think of it this way, you have $20 (thats about what a 512 is worth these days). You wnat to give the $20 to your friend. Would you:

A) Throw it on the ground, and expect your friend to pick it up, and hope no one grabs it first,

or

B) Hold out the $20 in fron of your friend, and only releaseing it when they grab it.

A is using the land tools without much consideration of the consequesnces and B is using them properly.

I'm sorry, it is an unfortunate and honest mistake, but I just don't have a lot of sympathy since it could have been avoided, the tools are there. Chalk it up to experience, god knows I have enough times in SL in my two years.

Exactly my point. It's the unexperienced who have these things happen to them. Just like I lost land to a swooper when I was editing land back before editing land made it automatically not for sale. I do have sympathy for those who make the mistake of thinking if you are alone in an area, you are truly alone in an area. Sadly they learn the lesson that SL is not like RL very quickly (in the amount of time it takes a bot to complete a transaction).

In addition to what I said before.... If I get here on my work an popup that I don't understand or don't trust, I do not press "OK".
I will reread the message in the popup and if I still don't understand it I will call for help (which will be often the systemadministrator over here).

Even being unexperienced in something doesn't mean you don't have to read what information is given.

I am not slamming the OP. It is just a bad mistake, that is really all... and there has not been a "rip off". Just bad luck.

Morwen.

I believe the system already prevents you from selling land for zero lindens to everyone, and only allows it to a specified person
Since the 1L$ mistakes happen so often, and warnings do not stop it from happening, it should also prevent anything less than say 10 L$ on sales made to everyone.

This problem has existed long before land bots came long, and as far as I can see the only people who oppose the protection would be the people who hope to make a profit by other peoples mistakes.

An ideal system would be to prevent transactions set to everyone for amounts less that say 5 L$ per/sqm and give you the option to change the amount its less than in edit-preferences.

Disagreeing with the terms used (bots are always thieves or "ripping off" the innocent) doesn't mean people disagree with more protection.

This was not a rip off, and neither was the case in the other thread mentioned. The ultimate responsibilty is with the people setting land or items for sale at 0 or 1 L$. LL cannot protect you from your own mistakes no matter how hard they try.
That doesn't mean they should stop trying, just that people should stop raging against the bots when they make a mistake. Take some responsibility for your own actions and you are less likely to make that mistake again.

In the bad old days, you could sell your land to anyone for 0L. LL realised this was causing issues and so made it so you could only seel at a minimum of 1L, in order to break that cycle. Setting an arbitrary higher minimum sell price will only repeat the current problem at a higher base price, but still at a price low enough to allow for complaints of being ripped off.

The only real solution is education to make sure people know not to click through without reading and understanding what they are agreeing to.

It should be changed to this.

Its far more accurate.

they could set the arbitrary base price at 10L / SQM though.

OR 20.

Then youd need to lower it intentionally.

Rip offs would be less damaging if someone steals say 2048 Lindens on a 2048 plot than say 20,479.