PS3 Home: Sony's answer to SecondLife?
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Doing Something
Registered User
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 120
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03-08-2007 06:16
From: Ace Albion It needs to have the ability for people to put up pictures of their cats in their apartments. Otherwise I can't see it working at all. Yes, they've got that covered. They clearly spent time exploring SL and realized that photos of pussy are quintessential.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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03-08-2007 08:07
The graphics look about on par with SL apart from the cast shadows. That's what we want here, that would be the single biggest graphic improvement. With shadows and more consistent performance, SL would remain virtually unbeatable!
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Peekay Semyorka
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 337
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03-08-2007 08:08
From: Argent Stonecutter With the open source viewer, it's technically possible. It would be an insane amount of work, though... it would basically be a scratch port to a new OS. The port itself wouldn't be that bad. The biggest problem is non-technical: money. Joining the PS3 development program, entering into a licensing agreement with Sony, and getting access to the SDK (plus test hardware) is a very expensive proposition. So, such work is not doable from an "open-source community" perspective; it has to be a strategic decision on the part Linden Labs to take on the effort and probably contract out the work. From a technical perspective, the biggest issue is the code's moving target. There are many expected changes re: the underlying protocols, the graphics system, the user interface, etc. These things must be tied down solid when you're targeting console platforms. -peekay
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Doing Something
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Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 120
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03-08-2007 08:41
From: Conifer Dada The graphics look about on par with SL apart from the cast shadows. That's what we want here, that would be the single biggest graphic improvement. With shadows and more consistent performance, SL would remain virtually unbeatable! Those shadows will be baked/pre-rendered. SL could display a building of similar quality now. Although SL uses streaming 3D which sucks terribly and is becoming slower each week. Because of this, SL will always look asthough it's struggling. Sony's Home is very likely to pre-load world data before displaying it. Similar to Unreal or Quake. Sony's Home will look and feel much more professional. Yet I imagine it will also be a lot more predictable too. There wont be any flying peni to help liven the parties up. The good thing about SL is that you never know what's going to appear on the horizon next. Anything can happen! 
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Dennis Bertone
Whitewater Nutcase
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 164
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03-08-2007 09:18
What about the important things like Strokers Toys...Think Sony will allow the adult content like SL does or is it too much to risk for such a mainstream company. I know SL is not all about sex...but come on... 
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Shirley Marquez
Ethical SLut
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 788
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03-08-2007 09:43
From: Christalys Voom Second Life should look like that now...the engine it runs on is ancient, archaic in regards to 3d. SL doesn't need a face lift, nor a makeover, it needs a skeletal transplant. If that happens, I and many others will never have a need to leave.
If we were willing to require that every user of SL has a computer with the computing and graphics rendering power of a PS3, we could have a Second Life that looked like that. As things stand, if LL were to implement something that rendering-intense, about 98% of the world's residents would have to buy a new computer or upgrade, and there would probably be NO laptop that would be suitable. (Maybe some of those 9 pound desktop replacement behemoths would make the cut, but I don't consider those things laptops.)
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James Copeland
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Join date: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 19
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03-08-2007 14:16
From: Shirley Marquez If we were willing to require that every user of SL has a computer with the computing and graphics rendering power of a PS3, we could have a Second Life that looked like that. As things stand, if LL were to implement something that rendering-intense, about 98% of the world's residents would have to buy a new computer or upgrade, and there would probably be NO laptop that would be suitable. (Maybe some of those 9 pound desktop replacement behemoths would make the cut, but I don't consider those things laptops.) I disagree. A tremendous amount is possible with a decent laptop or average desktop these days, SL just can't make use of hardly any of it in its current state. That said, PS3 home looks graphically pleasing but utterly dull otherwise. If SL could get on with a newer engine, which would require more processing client side and still keep a dynamic environment in sync, not only would it be revolutionary for mmorpgs, it would be fun to hang out in, but especially to develop content for.
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Bree Giffen
♥♣♦♠ Furrtune Hunter ♠♦♣♥
Join date: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2,715
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03-08-2007 15:32
I think that Sony Home looks pretty awesome! Sure there's no building stuff of your own but it's basically a gamer lobby for all the online games on the PS3. It's a place where you hang out and look for people to play against or with. Much better than seeing just a list of people. I imagine there's going to be a lot of trash talking in this place.
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Snowflake Chaika
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Join date: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 22
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03-08-2007 16:29
Agree with Bree. The idea behind this is probably much less ambitious than it seems at first, they're not trying to create the next SL. It's a place for gamers to hang. And as such, it's a really neat idea. Like a full blown 3D replacement for XFire where you could have a little house for your guild to hang out.
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Shelli Sheridan
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 4
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Let there be (better) light!
03-09-2007 01:48
So we all seem to agree that PS3 will never compete with SL in terms of user generated and adult content. And I will *never* buy a console, so that's another sure point for SL.
But since I joined this world early this year, I have been literally repelled by the hideous graphic quality SL is offering. Although I got surprisingly used to it meanwhile, it still is the main drawback of SL for me. Seeing the video about PS3 Home made me think that this is the graphics SL *should* have by now.
So, where's the difference? It's not so much in the details or textures, but mainly in the lighting! What SL badly needs is a more realistic lighting that includes proper shadows with smooth edges and a more sophisticated local light system with directional lights and objects actually blocking the light.
And I don't think this will close people with less powerful computers out, because - like local lights, rippled waters, etc. - you could turn that on or off in your preferences.
So I sincerely hope that there will be better light in SL soon!
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Flint Beika
Bandwidth starved kitty
Join date: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 64
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03-09-2007 02:11
SL does look dated compared to a lot of other PC games, but that's not just due to texturing (which can actually be exceptionally good if you visit the right builds), but more due to the prim based nature of the engine. This is of course essential to be able to keep the data levels manageable, as detailed meshes being streamed realtime to clients would probably cripple even the best broadband connections available today.
As for a console port, I don't know about porting to PS3, but I'd certainly be interested in an Xbox 360 port using XNA. I think the biggest problem there would be network access, I'm not sure how open network communication would be, otherwise though I don't see why a port wouldn't be doable. The use of custom HUDs and so on would be all but impossible, and inventory browsing would have to be completely rethought-possibly using some kind of spiral menu system which I find works quite well in console management games.
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
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03-09-2007 02:17
I saw the videos of Sony's lil' "Home". Looks sweet!! BUT.... it's no Second Life.
For one, as someone said, User created content seems limited, very limited.
Two: Its only on PS3. WOW!! I get to chat using a control pad!! On a system that costs me $600 and is hard to even get!!
Three: Its a console. In 3-5 yrs, it'll be replaced by something else
Four: Consoles suck. I'd rather use a Computer for EVERYTHING- not just games. Can't play a console game? Just use an emulator!!!
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Doing Something
Registered User
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 120
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03-09-2007 02:57
From: Shelli Sheridan So I sincerely hope that there will be better light in SL soon!
It wouldn't be practical to have real-time soft shadows. Your framerate would drop dramatically. Even Sony's Home wont use real-time lighting.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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03-09-2007 03:52
From: Shelli Sheridan But since I joined this world early this year, I have been literally repelled by the hideous graphic quality SL is offering. Although I got surprisingly used to it meanwhile, it still is the main drawback of SL for me. Seeing the video about PS3 Home made me think that this is the graphics SL *should* have by now.
So, where's the difference? It's not so much in the details or textures, but mainly in the lighting! What SL badly needs is a more realistic lighting that includes proper shadows with smooth edges and a more sophisticated local light system with directional lights and objects actually blocking the light.
The problem is that games can mostly "cheat" on this sort of thing. If a game has a fixed landscape, all the locations where light falls can be calculated in advance and saved on the game disk, so your computer doesn't have to do that. If a game has an editor that lets you make things out of prefabs only, then each prefab can have its lighting properties calculated in advance and then combined at run time. But SL, where you can make any arbitrary object you like, everything would have to be calculated on the fly, and even modern hardware would have trouble doing that. 3D rendering software can still take 10-20 minutes to produce a frame, and although game graphics aren't as sophisticated as what rendering software produces, the basic processes involved are still the same.
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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03-09-2007 04:29
Home is like a incarnation of another virtual world in closed beta called Kaneva. Its got better graphjics then kaneva but its the same premise. 3d spaces for all users but its more like a 3d mysspace then anything. Its not an SL killer or an answer to Second Life. Its sony's answer to Xbox Live and was the most exciting thing announced at the keynotes from sony. microsoft and nintendo at the GDC. Regardless of most of these big companies dont get what SL is about and will never really be able to replace it. As my partner said to me yesterday it would take something exponential to replace Second Life. Balance of content creation, social structure, freedom, a split between people under 18 and people above 18 is also important in these spaces (mabye add an interum area for folks so they can buy appropriate content from the other side and vice versa) Most people get the social part and sharing content (like photos etc) but they dont get the fact that they arnt open and have little if any type of content creation. Home diminishes any type of diversity as you can only be human and you also run into it being more of a Sim's like structure as far as building. Sure you can design your own 3d space but its stuff sony themselves provides.
However its far from Second Life. Sure it looks better thats about it. We can do all this stuff in SL (although some kinda link to outside sources other then quicktime would be nice for video > kaneva uses a youtube like thing and that connects directly to the game..) Anyways any company that comes up has alot to conquer as far as beating SL content creation is important to the vast majority of us and it will need to be open to the extent that SL is or even more so.
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Ace Albion
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Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 866
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03-09-2007 04:41
Hooray for cat photos! I like building, but let's be honest- the majority of SL people aren't into creating things. I think there are statistics on that. If Sony's doodad give you a virtual apartment with a nice lake view and the option to bring your friends over to virtually lounge around before going off and playing FIFA or something then people will dig it. Of course, joypads take two hands to use, so SL still has some advantages 
_____________________
Ace's Spaces! at Deco (147, 148, 24) ace.5pointstudio.com
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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03-09-2007 05:14
The major draw to SL is more then content creation but thats whats going to make or break SL and thigns like it in the long run. Content creation = more customization and things allowed. Which is a big thing for people when your limited like you are in Home its rather limiting. That and the whole its on a console thing.....
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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03-09-2007 06:26
It will be a cold, cold day in hell before I go and spend that kind of money for a console. Sorry. That is just me.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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03-09-2007 07:38
I'd be happy with fixed shadow directions, I agree that lengthening shadows as the sun sets would be more difficult.
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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03-09-2007 08:08
From: Lee Ponzu Second Life is betamax. It will lose to some VHS eventually. HAHHAHA thank you that too much 
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Peekay Semyorka
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 337
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03-09-2007 08:33
From: Lina Pussycat (Home is) sony's answer to Xbox Live and was the most exciting thing announced at the keynotes from sony. microsoft and nintendo at the GDC. Which begs the question: what will Microsoft do? Evolve Xbox Live to incorporate some of Home's features? Create a new system encompassing both Xbox Live and Windows Live? (with MSN & Vista integration?) Try to acquire Linden Labs or a yet-unknown third party? If Sony has Home, and Microsoft enters the market, Apple is looking to be left out. The battle isn't about consoles (or MMOGs) but to decide which company will control the multimedia / entertainment center in your home. -peekay
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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03-09-2007 09:03
A console never really can replace a PC period as the technology evolves we will see more 3rd party people aside from LL pop up but until that happens to make something as intermediately successful as SL to any degree they will end up having to face the same hardships that LL does at the moment. There currently isnt a better way to do this an allow the openness of SL. I also feel a big company will ruin the parts that make SL great and many other things. Content creation being to regulated etc many things to consider when developing a competing system is to develop it to be better then the original. The things currently in development while they may be graphically superior fail in any type of actual diversity. They take out the content creation creative expression and openess of SL and its just boring as all hell....
Kaneva, Moove and things in development just really dont cut it. Metaverse which some people think will be a repalcement for SL doesnt cut it. Your average user isnt going to be able to learn most of it without mass tutorials and alot more time and some pricier programs and learning more extensive coding etc. Most places i find (and i watch and test development of virtual worlds on a constant basis) are lacking arnt cross platform and have no creative outlet short of sharing pics,videos,music....
Will the next incarnation keep people around for almost 4 years will it offer everything that SL can. Whose to say but i wont leave SL till something that is truly better actually comes along. Cant replace graphics for a lack of the other area's!
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Peekay Semyorka
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Join date: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 337
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03-09-2007 09:24
I tend to agree, which is why I think things like the PS3 Home (or the PS3 vs Xbox battle in general) isn't really about PC replacement or even the consoles themselves, but rather about your living room's entertainment system. We all know this from Sony's bundling of BlueRay, Home's planned ability to share music and HD content, Microsoft's push for HD DVD (and even the new HD image format to replace JPEG), Apple's AppleTV, etc.
So it doesn't matter at all if PS3 Home will never be "as good" as SL, as long as Sony through these types of applications will be able to gain share in the "entertainment center" market vs. Microsoft, they will have reached their objective. To these players, the real money is selling music, (HD) videos, game licensing, pay-per-view TV content, etc.
-peekay
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Alastair Chamerberlin
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Join date: 22 May 2006
Posts: 70
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That video looks AMAZING to me.
03-09-2007 09:32
The day that SL can look like what I just saw in that video is the day I never leave my house again. WOW and WOW. Where are the shadows in SL? That ocean view and mountains outside the window!?!? WOW. I do agree though about the user created content. That would be a minus for me.
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Niamh Suisei
Queen Of Shadow
Join date: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 9
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03-10-2007 03:55
I'm not so sure about the user-created content. Seems to me that UCC has become SL's reason for being - making and selling and buying. Take the UCC out of the equation and you'll get much more of a "community" thing going - which is Home's selling point. And besides, you let ANYONE create ANYTHING and you get nukes and penii and bananaphones.... I'm sure Home won't have such griefing tools.
That being said, limiting it to PS3s is a big mistake - I can't see everyone in the world owning a PS3. SL's strongpoint is that anyone can download the client and take part (unless you're running Vista *cough*). But, the bar has definately been raised with this - time for the Lindens to upgrade their graphics engines.
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