About Police forces...

ok... I'm really not comfortable doing this and I must warn anyone who tries to flame me after reading that I really am not trying to bring prejudice to anyone in SL...

with this out of the way..

a friend of mine started an "agency" or police force... either way you want to call it, and I joined her, her ideas are good, and I thought in asking a Linden about the possibility of creating a real, sanctioned police force, much like the mentors, that could assure everyone's "freedom", that could teach people the specifics of "self-defense" in SL, that could really settle all the matters that I keep seeing in SL that could really use a hand...

So I have a few questions for the ones who care to answer, as this seems a very democratic way to put it, and was suggested by the people I talked to...

1- Is a "real" police force necessary?

2- If it is, how should it be organized?

3- What means should be allowed to use in dealing with people who don't respect the LL rules?


A police force that patrols sims and teaches people would be a great idea in my opinion, they could give as much help as mentors do, probably reducing their workload, and deal with teaching the specifics of security and how to deal with attacks, that sort of stuff, not overpowered, just well informed. Also I think that could be a easy way to drive the several existent police forces to unify, and work together instead of the current confusing state of things.
But that's just my opinion...

And here we go again.....


The answers would be:

1. NO

2. It shouldn't be organized at all.

3. Landowners and their assignees have all the tools they need to handle griefers, MORE TOOLS than any self-appointed "Police Force". And without breaking the TOS or risking being labeled as griefers themselves.

Max

A "police force" that advised on how to deal with griefers might be useful for newbies and new landowners. For example,handing out notecards about how to file an AR, how to deal with push attacks, how to use freeze/eject/ban etc, could be a useful function. Although that info is fairly easily available, especially in these forums.

However if it comes to enforcing TOS or CS, or taking any action against griefers directly, forget it, leave it to the landowners or LL.

So, more like a mentors group that gives specific info about that sort of issues and less like a group that can take direct action. which takes us to the state of having several "militias".

Short answer, no.

Long answer, noooooo.

Yes, exactly.

To be more exact... if I would find anyone, accept some trustees or Linden, trying to "play" police on my land, I will show the powers of a landowner... after a decent warning of course (which I give out of being polite, not because I have to).

As said, leave maintaining the rules to the landowners and Linden. They have the ways to do so. And aside from the TOS and alike, you have no way of determine which rules (inside the TOS) that go for my land.

Morwen.

*giggles*
Could you explain the long answer please in more detail????

Morwen.

Precisely, although I don't see why various "militias" could not combine and co-ordinate their efforts.

The idea of a police force comes up regularly, and always seems to meet with an overwhelmingly negative response, even where, as I'm sure is the case here, it is someone who wants to help the community. The problem is that self-appointed "police forces" all too easily become vigilantes and bullies.

As Morwen says, apart from the TOS/CS, you have no way of knowing what is acceptable or unacceptable to me on my land. Within the TOS, on my land I am the law, and I will deal with anyone who I deem to be acting unacceptably.

What you are thinking of is more a "Security Consultation Firm" than a "Police Force".

The reason you are seeing the strong "NO!!!" responses here is because, no matter how well the intent of the founder and begining members, griefers WILL creep into your organization at some point if it is a "Police Force" that goes out and actively tries to prevetn griefing.

A consultation firm, helping residents understand what ToS compliant tools and actions are availible to them, and how best to use them will recieve a much more friendly outlook. Keep to the principle that the group will take no active stance, only a passive one.

Landowners do have a vast array of tools from LL. However, even these can fail at times. It is an old addage that "Anything that can be locked, can be unlocked."

Residents who don't own land have less to protect, but also have less means to protect themselves.

The problem with both is maintaining the adherence to the ToS. A lot of the "protection" items out there are blatent violtions of the ToS themselves, or are ineffective.

In short; Education is fine. Action is not.

~Jessy

self appointed "police" are instructed to disarm themselves when entering any property I control. If not, I consider them greifers, and they're banned. Zero Tolerance.

I'll go so far as to build a system that will mass ban all members of their groups, if I have to. Last thing I need in my store, is some punk-ass thugs in black uniforms with ak47's escallating a minor greivance with a noob, into a shooting war.

VIGILANTES ARE NOT WELCOME.

Hi Vlad - this thread speaks volumes as to the general feeling about such a thing.. it's a pretty good read, and should bring you up to speed pretty quick..

zk

If a property owner wishes to hire Private security, that's his/her business. otherwise, a World police Force.(Team America, anyone/) is not needed. Aren't linden Labs ultimately responsible for policing SL?

My opinion is land owners usually bring in their own people to enforce security upon their land. They make those people part of their staff. I do agree having a linked connection throughout SL Sim Owners and Estate managers, sharing information to protect each other is a good plan. We currently have groups for that but only few know about them.

Vlad for your police force ideas, you sound like you'd make a great mentor. I've been involved in a few police groups and some of them used tactics that made me wana leave. Others tend to be too restrictive like a army. I left them because I'm a free spirit and they just made things intolerable for me. I know most the posters here refuse police. They have good reason too.

Most people IRL have had ban encounters with police. Even if they weren't the suspect. Some of them believe that no ordinary resident of SL should have control over them, that it could easily be abused. Personally i like your ideas of what a police force should be. I hope that your able to arrange something like that. Just make sure it doesn't turn out like the others. I recently left my last police group due to them being inactive and small.

PS: If you do organize something, it's better to call it a security firm like one of the responses was in this topic. The word police brings too much attention to yourself, plus can turn the stomachs of many people. Like that response said, griefers eventually will sneak their way into your ranks and destroy you by using your group to attack random sims and abuse the power you gave them. It will make you look bad.

The term 'Police Force' suggests the potential for yet more violence, which enevitilbly esculates (see the real world for point of reference and further details).

If the ability to cause violence can be removed, and it certainly can in a 'coded' world/programme, then the problem is no longer.

'My gun is bigger than your gun'... 'oh yeah, well that was then, this is now, my gun is bigger than your gun'...'oh yeah, well that blah blah'.

I thought the name over the door to SL was community?

That leaves only verbal violence... thats what your mute button is for.

Hm, interesting, but in my personal queendom I prefere to choose myself who to empower with such capabilities.

I would be opposed to any Linden Sanctioned Police force

I would be opposed to any non Linden Sanctioned Police force.

I would be opposed to Landowners banding together with private secuirty forces.

In fact anything more than the largely RP function of bouncer - I oppose.

The so called police force would cuase more grief than every griefer in SL.

Not to mention the fundamental shift away from our freedom here.

The biggest problem with any well-intentioned attempt to create a "Police Force" in SL is that it is simply impossible, by any means other than engaging in TOS-violating griefing yourselves, to enforce any code of conduct on anyone's land but your own. And even on your own land, SL simply isn't set up to allow any effective enforcement of 'laws'. There are no universal "Laws" in SL to uphold.

The best you can do is to control access to land that you own. Groups like BanLink can do a good job of sharing information on griefers and troublemakers. Someone appears in Sim A and raises hell, shooting and caging and orbiting innocent victims, and gets banned from that sim. You trust the admins of Sim A to only ban people for infractions that you would ban people for, such as weapons use or other intentional griefing. So you can set your own security to accept and add their bans. Suddenly 'breaking the law" in one sim might cause the griefer to get banned in 20 others, as well, automaticly. And for those parcels and sims that don't like such sharing, well, they can do as they please, and don't have to use that tool.

But when you come onto someone else's land, without invitation of sanction, and try to enforce a set of behaviors... It's asking for trouble, I am afraid.

Add to that the fact that griefer groups love to style themselves as "Police" or "Military" groups, and are known to attempt to infiltrate and take control of other such groups... I'm afraid that any group that does more than just advising people to "Sit on something and AR the griefer" will not be trusted, or well accepted.

100% up to the landowners to control security on their land. There are many cheap yet effective security scripts available on slexchange.com.

Anyone who comes on MY land and uses force of any kind on any AV, regardless of the circumstances, is a griefer.

I don't care how pure your intentions, if you usurp my control and judgment, then YOU are part of the problem, not a solution.

Vigilantes will be banned from my land.

I take it a step further. If you even have membership in a "police", "security" or "investigative" group displayed in your profile, whether the group is active in your titler or not, you will be banned as a preemptive measure. I have seen far too many of these people attempting to insert themselves uninvited into an ongoing rp.

/seconded

I am not fond of self-titled police. I will not go so far as to ban one automatically from land I have control over, but I will give one far less leeway than I would someone who isn't a member of one of these groups.

The moment s/he tries to assert "authority" over me, however, they will be banned, and their group notified that they are no longer welcome.

I would definitely be interested in such a script.

First, there was Superman. Then Lex Luthor showed up.

Then, there was Batman. And then The Joker came to town.

After them, there were a couple more and they formed their own super team in order to deal with other "evil super teams" who formed in response to their heroics in the first place.

Silly as it is, I think you get my point. Who wants to deal with organized griefers fighting so-called police forces on their sims?

And who's in charge of choosing and hiring members of a police force? Last time I heard, democracies had elections of officials who organized and managed such things. I'm sorry... who are we voting for again and when's the election?

Excuse the comic book quote, but "who watches the watchmen?" The Lindens? Yeah, right. They're got their hands full elsewhere.

Besides... what's next? Start policing sex sims because the self-appointed "police" think a minor might've somehow gotten access? Start policing Gorean sims because the self-appointed "police" think RPed slavery is wrong? Start questioning anyone who belongs to a radical or controversial group in their group listings?

Self-appointed "protectors" smack of fascism or vigilantism. If you want to do this, go play Punisher or Starsky and Hutch on your own land.

And then talk to a shrink about your control issues. That, or sign up for the police academy in the RL.

Unfortunately the Lindens have chosen to ignore their duty of care re: age verification - something I hope they are forced to fix frankly - and thus, the whole 'police blotter' system is a waste of time. People bent on griefing don't give a damn about what you do, because they can create a new account and do it all again.

Give me the ability to determine someone's IP address and ban it - and the entire subnet it's a part of - and I'll finally be able to have some control over the land. Anything else is half arsed.