About Police forces...

Agreed, there is only One authority on my Property, and that is Me. If you want to Play "Cops and Robbers" do it on your Own property.

Angel.

i agree with the majority of people on this- there are sufficient tools in place for people to combat griefers surely.

If people want to spend their time witnessing and reporting abuses and offering genuine, factually correct advice to others on what is and is not a violation of the TOS and how to avoid/report it, then that's fine. They can make a group for it if they like and share information and experiences.

Running round with cagers and badges with some assumed authority? Get off my land.

Everyone who's posted here seems to have the same notion - that a police force can only function if a large group of people give it the authority to act on that large group's behalf.

The idea of creating police forces and militia's - and it's a popular one - works on the erroneous assumption that there is such a large group that would condone the actions of a police force or militia, and such a large group simply does not exist. There is no foundation for authority in SL to support such a social construct as a police force, and any group that claims such jurisdiction is self-delusional at best, a griefer army at worst.

Information sharing between landowners on griefers is another matter entirely - yet, it is still up to the individual landowners as to how to use this information, or whether to use it at all. And nobody can argue that this is their absolute right.

Educating new residents how to deal with, or at least cope with griefers is a *GOOD* thing.


Having a group posturing as a security force, however, will only provoke griefers.

Perhaps call it the "Self-Defense Academy" or something that more clearly implies education and self-empowerment?


In the heat of conflict, griefer victims can be taunted to the point where they threaten with something like "I'm abuse reporting you! You're gonna get so banned for this!"

They AR the griefer thinking they're dialing some magical SecondLife 911... expecting a Linden or Liason to not just magically appear in seconds, but to also immediately understand the situation, side with the victim and unleash holy retribution on the griefer.

When the calvary doesn't show up, and seconds become minutes... the target's threat rings hollow. The victim feels betrayed by LL, the griefer, delighted by their victory, continues the attack or moves on to find a new victim.

The only effective ways to deal with griefers is to to stay calm.
Your rage = their victory. My usual method for dealing with griefers
includes:

- Recognize likely griefers and defuse the situation before it escalates by greating them warmly.

- Politely and encouragingly suggest areas that might be more appropriate or interesting if they're interested in banging pixels or gun play, (there's an adult area just east of here if that's what you're looking for...) or

- ask them to wait a few minutes, you're in the middle of something. (I usually ask them to not shoot my unarmed guests, but if they give us a few to finish what we're doing we'd be happy to arm up and fight back for a few minutes.

- Ask politely for them to stop interrupting...

- If all that fails, ban&eject or mute them. If they persist, after being asked politely to stop... relocate.

- If they, somehow manage to track you down and make a point of harassing you a 2nd time... AR them.

this sounds like a SL neighborhood watch

Id be agaisnt this too, since I dont condone spying on people.

Tho I suppose in more public access areas if they are a sort of 'professional witness" it would defintely be preferable to a Police force.

Many people enjoy wearing uniforms, carrying weapons, and threatening others. That does not give them any authority of any kind over other players. Period.

Since it is located in the state of California, Second Life already has a government, laws, and a police force. You may disapprove, or believe them inadequate, or accuse them of failing in their duties. But the government is what is it, not what you wish it might be.

Private security is good enough if available.

What is needed is some form of moderator like you have on forums.

Land owners should take some time to get to know the people on their land and if they prove trustworth give them ban/eject powers so that they can act as a type of moderator. or maybe friends are given powers. reguardless there should be a designated safety person

this is especially needed in popular areas.


the reality is that no police force will be big enough to cover enough areas or have enough power to make a difference.

I got shot by a griefer out in a tiny mall and i doubt police would of made a difference since it was a pretty empty area.

My experiences with these self appointed police forces have not been good. They like to think they have power and authority over you and it inevitably goes to their heads. I once had a gun pulled on me by an 'SLPD Officer' because I refused to extinguish my cigar in a night club! Outrageous behaviour! No, these police forces will not do SL any favours and a unified force with greater powers would be an absolute disaster. I dont mind people playing cops but I dont want them having more powers then the rest of us.

This may be a good opportunity for some clothing sellers to sell some Brown and Black shirts...........

Naughty! Bad! I approve.

Colette, I'm not against people forming up groups and doing what group people do in groups. And like I said, so long as they're only ever going so far as being passive witnesses or giving genuine advice based on the facts of the TOS etc then that's something anyone can do anyway.

That's about as close to my personal "line" as it gets, though.

First stop for "police" is not to break the law ... so any kind of action taken would break the TOS ... so it's a contradiction in terms.
Vigilantes = griefers

Bear in mind that there ARE a number of police/law enforcement groups in SL that are entirely rp-groups in conflict with other, criminal rp-groups. They don't interfere with people who are not roleplaying. Be careful not to confuse police-type roleplay with vigilante "police".

Not entirely true. There are the Terms of Services you need to respect. on your own land as much as anyone else.

So LL, ultimately, is the authority. They have adopted a hands-off approach but the minute they decide to take a more proactive stance you'll probably start to see LL police flying around. They will be called something else, something friendlier but will be mods like we have here on the forum.

But I do agree that any resident initiative to establish some kind of authority will not work.

What would be more fun and possibly more useful would be some kind of unofficial secret agency... mafia style. hehehe.

Lhorentso- Linden Labs having authority over the land as well does not make her proclamation any more valid. She can ban weapons and any form of violence, and anything she desires from her land.

does banning lindens work?

Just a thought that occured to me.

woah we are way off topic now...banning Lindens?!?

Its not as off topic as you may think. A couple posts up someone suggested there will eventually be Linden sponsered police under a sort of feel-good name. Maybe some land owners dont want these on their land.

I wouldnt let the real police in my house just cuase they said "hi , im a cop" they better have a reason or a warrant.

Police operate under the authority of a government. The Second Life governement is, at best, an oligarchy. (Ultimate power rests with the owners of Second Life.)

In a constitutional republic, such as the United States, ultimate power rests with the citizens (whether or not they, in practice, excercise it wisely).

A Second Life police force would be operating to advance not my interests as a customer (equivalent of a citizen), but operating to advance the interests of the Second Life owners. Their interests are to transfer money (First Life money) from me to them. Any protection the police may or may not offer me will be tied to the Second Life owners' bottom line.

Besides, First Life police officers often struggle to do their jobs well despite having signficant training beforehand. It's a tough job (for which they are often overworked and underpaid). I am wary of potential Second Life police officers, whose qualifications might be watching "Cops"* on television, reading an online faq, and having a personal sense of justice.

Given the Second Life set-up, leaving security matters up to the individual landowners is probably the most efficient way of maintaining peace. Because most Second Life citizens are also second class citizens, they still do not have a force working to secure peace for them. However, there are enough landholders competing for traffic to encourage them to set up security on their lands to make as many citizens as possible feel comfortable there. The best that one should expect from the Linden oligarchy is to provide the technical tools to allow the landholders to secure their lands.

If one is aware through Second Life of a First Life legal violation, don't report it to the Linden oligarchy alone. First Life legal violations always need to be reported to appropriate First Life law enforcement.


* "Cops" a/k/a "America's Funniest Civil Rights Violations"

Groups only have the authority that we, the citizens, voluntarily give them. Any group that pretends to have such authority and acts on that basis, but does not speak for the citizenry by direct and specific declaration by those citizens is acting without the consent of those citizens.

Now, it's amazing to me that this fact needs to be pointed out to those people who want to start their own police or anti-grief groups, but apparently it does. If you are trying to assert authority you don't possess, you are in violation of the Terms of Service and/or the Community Standards, because you are attempting to force people to do things in Second Life you have no business forcing them to do.

That having been said, there are police forces that are supposed to be out there doing that work, after a fashion. Anshe Chung, think of her what you will, has a group of estate managers that take care of things on her sims. And the owners of islands may opt to have all abuse reports written on their islands sent directly to them instead of the Lindens - they have that much power and control over what happens on their islands, and so are recognized by Linden Labs as being the sole arbiters of propriety on their own sims.

Police forces are not the means to produce a viable, stable social environment. This is done instead through community, and agreement among peers.

Police forces are the end result of that process, not the beginning of it, and at this stage of Second Life's societal development, the time simply isn't right for police forces as a general concept.

Lol -

I thought this was the resident answers forum.

Is it possible to ban a Linden from your parcel?

And if you do, can they unban themselves if they have probable cuase or a warrant?

lol.

This may seem silly NOW.

But in a couple years when theres a couple hundred thousand online at once and SL is basically like a large city. This might matter a lot.

William Godwin is rolling over in his grave....


Anarchists unite.

No.

A couple of months back, a griefer left a bunch of self replicators in my sim on linden reserved land. I called for linden help in getting rid of them. One arrived within seconds.

A landowner on the far side of the linden land has the red-ban lines up (access list only). In the course of searching the sim for any that he might have missed, he crossed onto that land, right thru the ban lines as if they didn't exist.

So at the current time, while the Police have a limited number - they have unlimited search and seizure powers at their discretion.

I think this is fine as long as the Lindens remain employees of linden Labs and have rules to follow.

But a larger Linden sponsored police force would need more constraints.