Avatar overtakes Titanic as top-grossing film ever

I ran into a Pandorian the other night, too...interesting...an avatar playing an avatar from Avatar.

this is my avatar from the movie avatar..i figure someone should represent the people of earth..

I liked the special effects in Titanic. But the story was just annoying and I was hoping the two main characters would just jump off the boat in the beginning and spare me the torture. My mom bought the VHS tapes. I would just watch the second one because that's when the boat sank. Yes,I am morbid.

Avatar, I have no interest to see at all really.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was annoyed by Jack and Rose. It's just like War of The Worlds. I had no sympathy for Tom Cruise and his family, they all annoyed me. I was rooting for the Martians to get them the whole way.

If I were to make a fictional movie of a historical event, I would showcase several real people in the movie. Not just one fictional couple. There were actually quite a bit of famous,interesting and prominent people on that ship they could have had side stories about. They basically made the "romance"I've known you for one day and now I love you foreverrrrrrrrr ) the main plot in the story. When obviously, it should have been about the ship.

This site has passenger lists and such. Interesting stuff if you are a dork like me. http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/

i have a first edition of the titanic that was printed in 1912 i believe....the first thing i did when i saw that movie was to see if they were on the ship..soon as i saw they were not, i didn't like that movie the rest of the way through hehehe

More proof that Canada hates the USA.

I did eventually happen across 'Titanic' on TV one Christmas, and it did what it said on the tin. It was all very decorative, and I *did* get choked up by the sequence where the boat got ripped in half and everyone died - because, yes, hideous disasters at sea are not hugs and puppies. Jack and Rose I found spectacularly uninteresting, but Kate Winslet looked pretty, and Billy Zane is always a delight to have on my screen, especially in formalwear. (Winslet and DiCaprio are both perfectly good actors, but this wasn't exactly a movie that cared about good acting.) I'm glad I didn't pay to see it in a cinema, although I dare say that was a more powerful experience in terms of spectacle. Also, I loathe Celine Dion. Loathe loathe loathe.

I saw 'Avatar' in 3D a week or 2 ago, and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I didn't have any particularly high expectations, and didn't know anything about it beforehand except that it featured blue people, and was supposed to be all woohoo cutting edge FX. I think that may have helped - it's always better to see a film without a big build-up. Still, I do think it's a perfectly good little movie quite apart from the FX spectacle. (And I did love the FX spectacle - diehard SF/F geek here, and that was some gorgeous world-building they did.)

No, it wasn't a wildly innovative plot - but you know, lots of movies (certainly lots of Hollywood movies) don't have wildly innovative plots. God knows Star Wars is about as derivative as it's possible for a plot to be (intentionally so - Go Team Joseph Campbell!) but I still love it to death. (Do not speak to me about the prequels. They can suck my pixilated c*ck, thank you very much, and choke on my gorram midicholorians.)

LotR told a huge, sprawling, complex story over several movies at the same time as giving us arguably the most well-rounded and elaborately built 'verse we'd experienced in the cinema up to that point, and I love it for that - but that's precisely what renders it inaccessible to casual cinema-goers. Heck, plenty of people find the PotC trilogy inaccessible because the story stretches over 3 films, rather than being three self-contained stories. I don't have a problem with 'Avatar' keeping the story simple; I think that it's simple enough that my Dad (never a sophisticated cinema-goer, and generally not very keen on SF/F) would be able to find engaging, and which pretty young kids can follow - and yet it isn't a stupid movie.

I don't think it's likely to have the kind of iconic impact upon a generation of movie-goers that 'Star Wars' had, despite the fact that it's essentially a swashbuckling hero quest, because the hero isn't a cypher to the extent that Luke was. He isn't an innocent everyman for wide-eyed viewers to project their fantasies onto (there's a whole digression here about how 'Twilight' is 'Star Wars' for the trainer bra set, but I'll not mount that particular soap box right now). He's a very particular hero, is our Jake Sully, and we see him being pretty flawed and un-heroic, with the whole spy/double agent/good little soldier thing. I liked that, though. And I liked that Sigourney's character was so layered, and not particularly likeable - and that the princess in need of saving was even more prickly and badass than Princess Leia. And that the head of their little mining outfit wasn't a cartoonish villain - he was just a businessman, doing what businessmen do. I liked that too - but it means that the story isn't evocative in the ways that Star Wars is, in that whole fairytale larger-than-life fashion.

And for all that one can easily dismiss the film's themes with soundbites like "treehugger" and "Dances With Smurfs"*, the fact remains that there is a huge body of US cinema and literature that celebrates the opposite paradigm, the Brave And Righteous Cowboys, the White Man's Burden, all that colonisation-justifying crap - to the point that it's embedded in the American Dream and impacts upon many facets of foreign policy, and very very few movies that cast us (Western imperialists) as the villains.

THINGS I LIKED:

- The world-building, both in terms of concepts and FX. It really was a pretty pretty film.

- The acting - Zoe Saldana is a terrific young actress, and I am LOVING her career so far. More work for Zoe, damn it! I thought she was thoroughly charming, and heartbreaking, and kick-ass. She rocked my socks. And Sam Whatsisname was very good too, I thought. I found his plotline engaging, for all that the character was being kind of a d*ck to the smurfs.

- The message - if this was 'Pocahontas' (and let's just take a moment to remember that the version of THAT story which has endured is a lie, and one designed to make the white people look good), I loved that this was a 'Pocahontas' story where the princess doesn't betray her people. (Or, alternatively, where Dido doesn't get used and then deserted by the stranger she's trusted with her heart.) If, instead, we look at it through the lens of current affairs, and think of it in relation to the appalling exploitation, slavery and destruction we're currently responsible for on almost every continent (and particularly if we look at our involvement in the Middle East at the moment, and the frantic need for oil which has coloured much of our politics) then I think this is a surprisingly brave film to come out of mainstream Hollywood. (Thinking about it, I'd also be interested to see a compare'n'contrast on 'Avatar' and 'Dune'. Or indeed 'Avatar' and 'Lawrence of Arabia'.)

- The gender politics - oh, man, HOW much did I love that there were various strong, complex and interesting characters, and some of them happened to be women? In fact, I think it may even have passed The Bechdel Test. Possibly. By the skin of its teeth. And if not, it got a damn sight closer than one can usually expect for this kind of thing. (I pretty much whooped when Sigourney got out of her little cryo thingy the first time - had no idea she was going to be in it, and I hearted the shout out to Alien like burning!) Loved the helicopter pilot, and the inclusion of women as well as men in the crowd scenes of humans and smurfs.

THINGS I DIDN'T LIKE SO MUCH:

- The white guy saved the poor little primitive people of colour. (!) I know, I know - it's optimistic to hope that a studio movie would do otherwise, but it's still a trope that sticks in my craw. (Not least because the Avatar movie I HAVE been reading about is the "Last Airbender" one. Based on the animated series, in which everyone is clearly Asian. And yet in the movie? Magically, our heroes are all white people. After fan furore at the total bleaching of the cast, the white guy originally cast as the villain/antihero got replaced Dev Patel - which is kind of awesome, because yay Dev Patel, and Zuko's the best role...but it's still giving us a movie about a bunch of white kids fighting against a wicked brown guy. Which...really, I don't need to see that. Ever again.) So - yeah, I heart 'Lawrence of Arabia', but it's still very problematic in this day and age.

- The happy ending. I mean - duh, obviously Our Hero, after going through all his rites of passage, is going to lead his tiny force to victory against all the odds. This is Hollywood. But there was a moment there in the final battle where I had a sudden longing for the movie to shock us with a display of truth - for the feisty, victimised, valiant little underdogs to be crushed like bugs, to have their holy places smashed to paste, to have their world torn apart and fucked over by the big rich corporation. Because THAT is what happens. That is what always happens, time and again, all through history. It's not pretty, and it would have left cinema-goers shocked and angry and resentful, but it would have been a more truthful piece of art. Of course, I know that was never going to happen - this is a swashbuckling space opera by the guy who gave us 'Titanic'. But still...there was a moment there where I could see that other ending stretching out before me.

*C'mon, SOMEBODY must have used that smurf line? I'm sure I'm not the only one to have that thought?

You want them to leave shocked and angry? Hell, a lot are already leaving depressed, it seems.

Thanks for that synopsis. I was going to try to see it today, but I can wait for it to show up on HBO now. I'll go see "Extroadinary Measures". I'll take Harrison Ford and Brandon Fraser over Evolved Smurfs any day.

Well, I think that if the film had gone there (not that one would ever expect it to in a million years) then that would have been some terrific story-telling and drama - and it was a viable narrative choice. Not a commercial one, but in terms of the structure of the story, that would have been very powerful - and clearly a lot of the criticism in this thread hasn't been about the commercial sense of storytelling decisions, but rather the narrative value. So I mention this, because it did cross my mind as I was watching - that I didn't believe the jeopardy, because it was clearly the kind of film where one knew the hero was going to triumph in the end. It would have been one hell of a powerful twist if at this point the film maker turned around and showed us that, no, actually this WAS a film about the corrosive impact of consumer culture and imperialism, rather than just paying lip service to that idea. As it is, this isn't a very powerful film; it's a hell of a lot of fun, gorgeous to look at, and the plot is engaging and satisfying, but it's not deeply moving.

I mean, I enjoy escapist fluff well enough, but art isn't just for escapism - GOOD art holds a mirror up to nature (as some bloke once said) and startles you with truth. Good art *isn't* comfortable or reassuring.

...I'm astonished that people are walking out of this movie depressed. I walked out of it grinning, with a spring in my step!

I can only assume that the people who are finding this film depressing watch nothing but RomComs. I mean, I know that Hollywood movies are pretty relentless with peddling the whole Shiny Happy People Good Times Good Times saccharine crap but...really, if audiences are feeling depressed after watching this, then heaven forfend they accidentally stumble into 'The Deer Hunter' or 'Precious' or 'Hamlet'. Or find themselves inadvertently watching the News, and noticing some of the stuff that's done by their government/big corporations in their name.

No, no. They aren't depressed because of the content of the film, they are claiming to be depressed because they can't live in a world like the movie depicts, or some such nonsense. Mostly psychobabble if you ask me.

*Waits for the first court cases where people blame their misdeeds on "Avatar".

I have a sister who's a Head Shrink. As far as I can tell- its all BS, and most shrinks are as screwed up as their patients.

She's on her 2nd Divorce and doing marriage counselling too. WTF?????

Of course if it wasn't for us "Western imperialists" most of the peoples in the world would be living in the stone age. Just like with Haiti today, they can't build a society so who do they call to pull their chestnuts out of the fire, us evil Western imperialists.

you have to love the excuses people make in the world to be lazy and to get the most attention they can..
whatever happened to people taking responsibility for their own doing instead of having to be a victim of whatever they feel they are a victim of??

Omg i wonder if my insurance will cover my meds cause avatar made me an even weaker wimp than i was before i saw it..

\o/ oh lody why habs those forsaken me N stuffs
LOL

"No, no. They aren't depressed because of the content of the film, they are claiming to be depressed because they can't live in a world like the movie depicts, or some such nonsense. Mostly psychobabble if you ask me."

:tares::

Oh! Oh, well, okay - that makes more sense, kind of, whilst at the same time making me want to hurl crockery. Or, upon reflection, to feel really REALLY sorry for these poor, imagination-less souls who have to be spoon fed a virtual environment by CGI and 3D FX for it to consume them.

:: points at bookshelves::

Hello - happily inhabiting virtual worlds since...well, pretty much since I learned to read. Still not any closer to living in the Shire, or Cair Paravel, damn it. Or to being an Old One, or getting sorted into Ravenclaw. Or stake Edward Cullen through the heart.

::thinks::

I wonder if all these depressed people will come to the Na'avi colony in SL?

EDITED TO ADD

Chris, I was on the brink of responding to your post seriously when I saw your little tag line self-descriptor. I conclude that you're a troll, although I suppose it's still possible that you're sincere, and simply blessed with neither heart nor wit nor education. Either way, I rather doubt that I'm up to the job of fixing someone quite that broken via a posting board discussion.

Congratulations on the accident of birth that saw you born where you were, rather than in Haiti. Stay classy, pal.

I doubt it, because it wouldn't be representative. As I said, the film very well shows the problems with virtual worlds in the way it's had to be made. Let's take a look:

1. Nobody from the outside really knows what they're for. We're told that the whole Earth involvement with Pandora is about Unobtanium, although it's only mentioned twice in the whole film (probably because James Cameron was embarassed that it had such a silly name). We're told it's incredibly valuable, but not _why_. And it has to be that way - if we knew what Unobtanium was used for, we could start thinking about tradeoffs between the exploitation of Pandora and the consequences of not having it on Earth, and the film-makers don't want that because the humans have to be the bad guys. Likewise, everyone seems to be sure that virtual worlds are the next big thng, but nobody is really sure what they are for; and if we actually knew, their development would be very different.

2. FIC. Jake doesn't just get to be a Na'vi - he gets to be an awesome and exceptional Na'vi. It's pure chance that he happens to be where Neytiri is, and then that she doesn't decide to shoot him on the spot (which implies they _would_ have happily shot the other Avatar diplomats?). Even that isn't enough, and - without spoiling anything - halfway through the film they have to use a really horrible cinematic fudge to make Jake even _more_ awesome and exceptional. And this is what really bothers me about the "avatar blues" - because the film doesn't show you what it's like to be a Na'vi, it shows what it's like to be awesome and exceptional. It's a real thing called "the focusing effect", which is driven by the media and is probably responsible for a _lot_ of general depression in the world. Some with virtual worlds. All the adverts and claims about defining yourself and building a world can in practice only apply if you turn out to be exceptional. Otherwise, you'll probably be fitting into someone else's world.

3. What now? I can't say much here without spoiling, but, well, what does Jake do after the movie ends? It has to end when it does, because the interesting story has concluded. Not good for retention..

4. The quality ghetto. I know that in any film, a certain amount of stupidity by the baddies is inevitable, but come on. In the first big attack on the Na'vi, there was absolutely nothing they could do about it. Then, when he realises that the Na'vi might be about to strike back, our evil general chap decides to attack with.. a much less effective method. Some with every current virtual world: when compared with reality, it falls apart, and so a kind of mutual blindness develops to keep the extremes of reality out.

Pardon???

What makes the movie powerful and somewhat depressing from my PoV is that the characters on both sides are all easily identifiable. The typical modern person can see themselves being any one of the villains, and yet wishing they could be like any of the heroes - all the while noticing the thing line between the two sides is not really a line the people in the story chose, but one of circumstance.



/AGREE

Anytime I even mention that I am Amazonian in ancestry, whites love to jump onto a list of evils of my people - even if I have done nothing but simply mention what I am. They seem to feel entitled to say how 'you folks are really evil' simply because I exist and identify myself in their grand presence.

Its nice to see something depicting the positive ends of my cousin's many cultures without making the characters into cardboard stereotypes.


Hoping she goes places. Especially as unlike Carrie Fisher Zoë Saldaña actually likes science fiction as is unlikely to blame it as the cause of any personal issues in her life.


Yep. I do believe that Pocahontas lived the end of her life in England.


/AGREE
Hollywood needs to get past that. Though you later reference Airbender as all Asian. And coming from Japan, that's just the same thing. Dominant cultures making heroes only out of the majority-empowered race of their particular people. The US has managed a few non-white hero movies, usually using blacks in certain kinds of roles...


Yeah but... tired of living that in the real world. And native people in the Artic, Amazon, Palestine, Oceania, Central Africa, and elsewhere are all going through it right now today as well... which frustrates even further.

So I can accept a happy ending to a story that I read daily and see a very different result to.

The hero didn't actually save them..Eywa in the end did..I guess he was the one to ask but he wasn't the one to shift the battle in the end..
they were about to be crushed then Eywa stepped in with sending everything but the kitchen sink..

It was a great movie...anything that has so many people in so many places pissed off beyond belief has to be worth watching..

seriously the movie is great ..all the hidden meanings everyone is finding to trash it just shows what a screwed up world this one is..

we can choose to go though life slowing down to look at the car accidents or we can choose to slow down to smell the flowers..just depends on how we choose to look at life i guess..

"Though you later reference Airbender as all Asian. And coming from Japan, that's just the same thing. Dominant cultures making heroes only out of the majority-empowered race of their particular people."

Oh, true - generally I'd agree. But you know, 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' isn't Japanese - it's the product of a couple of white American guys - it's not anime, although it's heavily influenced by anime storytelling. So the fact that this homegrown Nikelodeon kids' show has a cast in which NOBODY is white, and in which all the different fantasy lands are clearly based on different Asian cultures - in which all the heroes are people of colour (and not just generic Asian, either - there are various different races, but they're all clearly based on Asian peoples)...well, that's pretty big, I think. And it's a terrific wee show too, with rites of passage, character development, narrative arcs, moral ambiguity - it's a little gem.

It was a great opportunity to make an original American fantasy movie with a cast of Asian Americans of various flavours - or, hell, Asian Asians of various flavours. Instead of which they cast white kids. I presume it's not going to be Mickey Rooney in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' level awful, but it's still depressing.

I happen to agree with at least part of Orlando's estimation (of that particular post)...

it was classist, presumptive, and arrogant.... then again some of that same arrogance was in Orlando's "fixing someone"...

but I also feel some of the frustration Chris probably feels, when every media outlet you turn to is going through this big song and dance to "save the people of Haiti"... yet when the disaster happens in the states it's oh so quiet outside the borders... and where were these fuckers when the tsunami hit SE Asia... damn sure didn't see the same kind of publicity.... never mind I've had 3 people on the street I live on in RL die this winter for lack of basic necessities and simple medical care that an EMT could provide... I've got no malice for the people in Haiti, but I've got plenty for the sorry bastards who let the same thing happen in their own backyards, without so much as a peep, because there's no "disaster" to publicize how "oh so kind and generous" they are...
/rant

[ontopic]
damn, why didn't I think of smurfs... that's awesome... dances with smurfs gully....
still it had spectacular effects and technology... and I can see where the sadness comes... getting so close to a dream of something beautiful, and not being able to stay.... full on depression over just that though... pfft, whatever

That is why the US needs free medical care for all like most of the modern world has.

We have the best medicine in the world for the 0.1% that can afford the top ends of it... but the rest of us are screwed...

You can hate all the 'taxation' of the Democrats all you want... but at the end of the day, if you aren't super wealthy -AND- a religious wacko, they're the party that's backing at least some of your vital interests.


When I saw the Na'vi in Avatar, my impression was "Oooo, a Neko movie!

it would be nice if there was a way to actually be able to get free medical care that was any good..but it's not gonna be free..someone will have to pay for it..
just happens to be the ones that are still on the edge of losing their homes at the moment..
it's not gonna dent the rich one bit but it will the ones that have been hurting the most from all this bank bull crap..
lets just hit them some more cause it's in every ones best interest but theirs..

they are going back to work at 40% less earnings than before they were unemployed..how the heck are they gonna be able to pay for insurance for those that can't afford it when the working class won't be able to afford it themselves..
all this is doing is making more poor and answering nothing to fix the poor getting into a better situation..

in the end the rich will just keep getting richer and the poor population will just keep getting poorer and more populated..

we need to concentrate on becoming a more self sufficient country like before rather than one that is dependent at every turn..

the honest truth ..we need to get off the two party system and bring up some parties that will actually do some good for the people of the country..cause the two there now are no different than each other..

If you got up toward the screen and looked away from the screen you wouldn't see a rear view of the 3D stuff that appears to be in front of the screen, would you?

===============

I wonder what, if anything, one could do with a 3D projection system that used a spherical or hemispherical array of projectors.

I'm neither, and I want no part of the snake oil they are peddling. They aren't serving my interests.

BTW, Chris is neither uneducated nor a troll. He is...Chris.