I feel ripped off

wonder if this wil be the case, might be alot less then tthat price soon.

I've upgraded my account a few weeks ago and I'm waiting and looking around. If first land becomes available, so be it. If not and I spot a good deal, I'll take it. I think patience is the keyword here.....

Mandy C

Spending a good chunk of real money in SL requires some research beforehand. Just like in RL. If you make an impulse buy, or an uninformed one, learn from the experience.

I made a VERY bad decision in RL real estate some years ago that cost me over $5,000 in penalties. I lost that money because I was in a hurry to get what I wanted, didn't do my homework and didn't consult a lawyer. My fault entirely.

In SL, I've just bought 8056 of land, when land prices were (as it turns out) at their peak. Ouch. But I was more or less aware of the risk because people have been predicting a bubble burst for weeks. I bought anyway because I found exactly what I wanted and I had a boatload of building projects I wanted to get started now, not at some indeterminate time in the future.

So, can't really say I'd do it differently, even if I'd known what was going to happen.

Deceptive advertising practices? Scam? What exactly have you two been smoking, and where can I get some? Wow.

As long as I live, I don't think I'll ever understand why some people constantly feel the need to blame their own mistakes on others. Then again, I guess if they weren't the type to do that, they probably wouldn't keep making the mistakes in the first place.

Look, here's Linden Lab's description of how the First Land program works. This is a direct quote from the "Get Your Land" page of the main Second Life website. It is quite clear in its wording:



Wanna tell me where in there it says unlimited quantities of land will always be available at all times to cater to all the tens of thousands of newbies who arrive literally every single day? Wanna tell me where it even hints that server deployment is not an extremely labor intensive process that takes real time and there's no way around that? How about pointing out where it suggests that hardware can never be back ordered or that suitable hosting facilities can always be found? Come on people, can we please get real here for a minute?

Even if you're imaginative/ignorant enough to assume that all those suggestions were present, even though they're clearly not, or that real world practical considerations shouldn't apply, even though they have to, how in the hell did you possibly miss that glaring "subject to availability" line? It's not like it was in fine print. It's square in the middle of the first paragraph. Wanna tell me what exactly is "deceptive" about saying "subject to availability"? Like I said, come on.

I hate to have to say this, but grow up. Take some responsibility for your own actions. Read the bold print since there's no fine print to be found.

No,you're not being scammed at all.You've been victim of your own impatience and lack of interest for retrieving useful information.Get over it...NEXT!

Lets put it all into the real perspective here. IT IS A GAME!!!!!!! Get it? G - A - M - E.

L$ NOT = USD$. You may CHOOSE to buy L$ with USD$. But that is YOUR CHOICE. L$ are points in a game. Nothing more. Nothing less. If you lost L$ on a bad deal, you just played the game wrong. Learn from the experience and move on.

It puzzles me that just because Linden Labs bought a fresh batch of servers and is releasing land at a faster pace, people automatically assume that everyone who holds land currently is going to panic and dump it on the market for less than a 10th of what they paid for it. Really, the way that new residents are entering the game, I doubt that prices will stay rock bottom for long. Remember that virtual land resides on real physical servers, and those take up real space.

You're correct to disagree with the OP, but you couldn't be more wrong on your reason why. SL is absolutely NOT a game. Games have objectives, specific tasks to achieve, opponents to defeat, rules of engagement, etc, etc, etc. Where are all those things in SL?

SL certainly has games within it, but the platform itself is not a game. It's much broader than that. If all you see is the gaming aspect, you are sooooo missing the point.


Would you say the same thing if you lost chips in a casino? After all, casino chips are just play money, right? You may have acquired them by trading RL money for them, but that was your choice, right? You shouldn't feel bad about it then right, since it was your choice and all, right? You just played the game wrong, huh? No big deal?

I say to you what I said to the OP, come on.

Now, one of the great things about SL is that if you don't want to care about the virtual economy, you don't have to. Don't go around blasting those who do though. Many of us make our living off of SL. I happen to get paid in US dollars for my primary job (which is as a full time content creator), but I also have a secondary business, which deals in Linden dollars, like every business in SL.

I sell avatars and clothing, and the procedes from those sales go 100% to pay for the land on which the Sci Fi Museum sits. The museum exists as a public service, and it's enjoyed by many. Were I to lose Linden dollars, the existence of the museum would be in jeopardy. If that happened, should I just chalk it up to "playing the game wrong" and not care? Again, come on.

I also know several people who make a very comfortable living entirely off the products they sell in-world. Should they not care about losing money either?

How about Anshe, who's now a RL millionaire because of Linden dollars, and the others in her business who aren't far behind? Should they not care?

Look, the OP was absolutely wrong to cry scam, but he had every right to be upset about losing money. Anyone would be. Well, anyone except you, I guess.
It's nice that you're so rich that you don't care how much slips through your fingers, but the rest of us aren't. How about you step off that gilded horse for a minute, take off the crown jewels, garage the Rolls, and give the rest of us a little break, huh?

Once again, it's NOT a game. Even if it were though, there would still be plenty of reason to care about losing money.

I will acknowledge that we have different definitions of games. Not all games have "winners and losers" or all of the aspects you have described. RPG's don't necessarily have that. Some are just activities of fun that have no other goal than to inspire the imagination. That is where SL fits in. I agree, you can make it whatever you want it to be for you. It is nevertheless virtual. That is not you standing on the screen. It is a cartoon character created by you to represent you in the virtual world.



See my comment at the end about this. But I can't totally buy this comparison. Casino chips are in effect legal tender. L$ are not, although some folks do treat them as such. But, look at it this way. If someone walks up to you and offers to sell you a $2 casino chip for $5 and you bought it, were you scammed? Some might say so, but I say NO. Why? Because you had the information available to you to know the chip's value but you bought it anyway. That is what we are talking about here. The purchaser in this case bought something that was overpriced. That is not a scam. If the product was not delivered, then it was a scam. But he agreed to a price and mad a transaction. Pure and simple.

As a side note, I do not go to casinos becuase I already know I"d lose my a$$ .



I did nothing of the kind. In fact I envy those that make a living off of SL. I would do so myself if I could match or better my current RL salary. But that does not change the perspective of what SL really is. Those that have been so successful at it that they have made it their RL livelyhood have my admiration..and envy. I think it is safe to speculate that most players do NOT make a living at it.



I actually think my point may have been lost on my definition of SL. If the original poster had L$ STOLEN in some way, that is a whole other matter. At that point, I absolutely agree that LL should step in and take corrective action (and I believe they would). Just as if your loss at a casino was based on cheating as opposed to you just not playing well, action should be taken. My original point was that the gamer that was complaining was not scammed. He simply made a bad decision and should learn from it and move on, rather than yell scam.



Had you read my earlier post, I think you'd realize we are in agreement on this point. I was simply making the point that losing money (or L$) on a bad deal is not the same as losing money on a scam. I don't see a difference in our positions here.

Am I missing out here? Not that I have not seen these rumours before in the comments on the blog, but I have not seen any 512 land under L$6700 so far.

Land prices on auctions is raising again. The last 8 sims, a total of 512688m2 went for a total of $ 28961 USD. The LindeX today sais that equals 7712657 L$. This gives me a gross landprice of L$ 15,04 m2 ! Give they sell in one month, we would need to add 8 x $ 195 USD trier to this cost price, which make the actual land price L$ 15,85 / m2.

To make the calculation easy, I did not take into account any trading cost and creditcard/paypal percentages.

Linden is releasing land at high speed at the moment. The new continent is about yellow if you enable land sales in the search window. So, prices are dropping vast just to hope for the new sim owners to sell enough in time to trier down, as at the moment you see them selling even under their own cost prices.

When I entered in December and got my first land, all parcels in that region were selling between L$ 13k and L$ 15k per 512m2. Now prices are more around L$ 9k per 512 m2.

I just don't buy that people are going to stay selling land under their buying price and even drop to under half the price they have to pay.

Besides, I do not thing it's fair of Linden to try and archive those low prices again. Who benefits from that?

People who have land and sell it over time make proffit. Newcomers just pay more than people who entered 2 years ago, but if prices keep raising, as they do in RL, they will in they end also make proffit.

Having prices realy drop to those levels in short time will cost a lot of people so much money, they will drop SL completely as the risk/profit profile becomes too high if this happens. After all, you still have to come up with trier every month.

And this trier is somenthing I personally find way out of proportion for a game.

And where does it say this? LL does not PROVIDE anyone with First Land, they make it available on a limited basis to first time premium account land buyers. They make no other promise.

ummm

Doran, It sounds like you may have jumped in with both feet when you should have waded in one toe at a time. I don't think this constitutes LL scamming you. But, I feel bad for you, for what it's worth.

Linden Labs is using an unethical and in some places illegal tactic called Bait & Switch. I've been in sales and marketing for years. I've seen it time and again. They make an offer to get you in the door only to find out that the offer presented doesn't exist. And as everyone knows Land Ownership is one of the primary if not the only reason to upgrade your account from the Freebie. Once you get in as a premium member you start to see that they misrepresented the availability of 'first land'. Of course they cover themselves in the fine print by saying subject to availability but the truth of the matter is. They know that once they get you into a premium account the desire to own land will take over and you will buy from another resident. Ensuring that they never have to deliver on one of the bennifits they taught as available. LL would rather sell giant chunks of land on the Auction block for 2000 - 3000 USD than give the land away.

Currently there are 14 Plots of land on the Auction Block that are greater than 60k m2. All of this land is owned by the Lindens. Any of it could be made available for First Land Purchases, but the little guys don't matter to the lindens. Just so we're clear, thats 1640 premium residents that COULD have first land if LL gave a crap.

What i say to do is this- Ditch your premium account, and go rent a plot of land on a private island with a TRUSTED/known PI owner. Im not sure if he is still renting out land but try the guy who owns "Houses that jack built" (I forget his last name). Before I owned sims i rented a plot from him and had 0 problems. I had modify rights on the land, built what I wanted....etc Was nice. And for me, renting on a private island (Not the ones with 50 other islands attached to it) has MUCH better performance than the mainland.

LOL! Hey Jesse! I just finished a post in another thread sayin about this same thing.

I obviously think this a sound piece of advice

~Pal

And this makes you an expert we should respect, how?

Anyone can join SL for free and see just how available or unavailable First Land is. Before you start making accusations of "Bait and Switch" which could land you in serious legal trouble you might want to actually know what you are talking about. You might want to investiugate the laws covering slander and libel before you go spouitng off your knowledge of advertising law.

lol! Hi Pal That it is.

I have been a premium member for nearly six months now. I log in almost every day, and each time I do I do a search for First Land. I have never seen First Land available in six months of trying.

If you want to quote what LL say, try this:

Acquiring Land:

Acquiring land in Second Life requires a Premium Account. From a tiny parcel to an entire island, the pricing structure is extremely flexible to suit any need or budget!

The above is simply not true. You do NOT need a Premium Account to acquire land, you can buy land from private island sims, such as Anshechung, with a basic account.

Amen to that.

It's a good time to buy now, in my opinion.

Yeah just bought some land in new area last week, I think is new class 5 server mainland area.
There was several lots for 4890 to 5100 yet even while I was buying someone or a bot swooped in and bought and up the lots for 9k and up.
They were only that price for few days soon all the lots in entire area were much, much higher.
The land traders I assume have to sell at certain price to make a profit.
If I sold anything at this point I would probably not make any profits that would be worth by time or the hassle but that my choice and decission to buy land in first place.
In long run we would be effected if people quit buying land and paying teir eventually not that people would they are too addicted
Thinking myself about looking for vr land buyers rehab clinic myself.

Maybe you should read the thread again before making impetuous comments; we're talking about First Land availability, which applies only to LL mainland parcels and Premium account holders...Your point, please?

You might want to do the same, as well as to consult a dictionary in order to figure out which of those terms might reasonably apply (hint: one's spoken, one's not), before you tell posters expressing their opinions that they might be in "serious legal trouble."

Honestly, my experience was, "Wow, First Land!" followed within 24 hours by, "Uh, now I'm surrounded by stupidly ugly buildings and red ban lines, there's no zoning, and... great, is that a dance floor?" I felt foolish for not admitting to myself that a 512 m2, 117 prim plot was inadequate for any sort of building enjoyment, though I don't think I realized that there would be no zoning whatsoever in any First Land areas opened.

I didn't feel ripped off, though, because I had (after a lot of work) gotten what I had been told I could get. That it wasn't worth it, and that there were much better options in-game (such a renting land from a decent landlord without bothering to pay for a Premium subscription), was something I had to discover. However, I don't hold Linden Labs responsible for telling me before I bought my Premium membership (which I am not renewing) that much of what I'd find on the grid is puerile and ugly and ignorant and unfair. Like others have said, that's something that just a little bit of investigation in-game and on this forum would have shown me.

The ban lines on 512 parcels are hellacious. Not only for land owners, but for anyone who wants to visit on that parcel or anywhere near it.

It's still worth getting though because you can sell it and use that money towards a nicer place.

Man, you think 8k is HIGH? I bought my first land a couple of weeks ago and was IM'd by 6 people all wanting to buy it off me within about 1 minute of me purchasing it - offers ranged from 6k to 10k! Needlesss to say, I did not sell as I wanted to build but what DID annoy me was the fact that 2 ppl bought plots next to mine and immediately put the land up for sale; resulting in my having 2 huges twirling red "FOR SALE" signs right next to my plot! IMHO, I think there should be a time limit set on the re-sale of first land too, to stop money-grabbin gits makin a killin! How many ppl rant on here about wanting first land to RE-SELL rather than to build on? LMAO