Thankyou Lindens

Theres always a thousand messages on here about how Second life isnt what WE want or how WE would like the place to be ...

but very rarely do we say thank you for the small mercies that are placed upon us.

In my real life job ... im an IT systems manager and have to support multiple servers of various different configurations and locations, I code in C++, Java and Kix and have a very large user base.

Linden Labs "attempt" to have Second Life running on multiple different platforms with multiple graphics card variations.
There are users with a basic laptop with 256 mb ram and on board graphics to the PC "enthusiast" with high level everything....
Nor does the Lindens exclude the Mac users or even the linux community with even Solaris being developed.

To the MOST part ... it works, the same argument has been used between Macs and PC's for years ...

Most say MS is rubbish ... and MAC is king ... but just like SL , Microsoft give you an OS thats designed to accept any old crap that you have as hardware. MAC have everything hand picked from the cables to the screen by apple themselves who then design an operating system around it for maximum compatability.

If you walk into a PC store and pick up a game and it says..

Minimum spec
2ghz P4
2 GB of Ram
512 MB Graphics card
300 MB hard drive space

and you didnt have that you wouldnt try ...... right ???

So we have a world that we can design our our little part of the virtual universe, a place where we can build our own goods to sell and make REAL WORLD money if we are good enough and maybe even sell if its NOT that good enough. We can overcome the restrictions that we might have if we dont fit into what is the "normal" social stereo types. We can even live out some fantasies..... ranging from Gorean.... to furry.... to being a club owner.
Yes like EVERY society we have the people that we wouldnt like in our real lives depending on what you personally find distastefull but for the MOST part religious, cultural, ethnic origin and social status are ALL what YOU want to be accepted as .. not what other depict.


There are many that have said that SL is "flakey" well that unfortunately is the truth ...

but ... would you berate a baby for not being able to walk .... a child for finding thier limits as to what is right and wrong .... or even a teenager if they dont comply or understand WHY they cant go out drinking till 3am or drive a car.

Second life is moving ...constantly in a state of flux, you could say that its a constant beta version, with new ideas...technology..opportunities being delivered with each new release.

I certainly dont know what the new release will give us ... with sculties etc .... but what I DO know is that the REASOn why SL has a large turn arround of users is becasue that people come on and expect something that SL isnt ...

Its not the answer to all your personal issues .... as they follow you where ever you are.
Its not easy money ..... becasue skill takes time and learning, something that many arnt prepared to do.
Its NOT a private club for the elitists or early adopters.

Certainly the Lindens arnt your personal friends who you can call on for a little bit of "muscle" when things get out of hand.
We all want that we are allowed to do what WE want...WHEN we want it ...
but dont want others to do what THEY want when THEY want it.
Your World ...Your Imagination

Infers that the Lindens arnt going to give you a "sony approved" world where you buy their products....... the Lindens are ACTUALLY saying ... we will give YOU the ability to create YOUR world. Sometimes YOUR world might be something thats illegal... and SL isnt a hiding place ... as the law IS the law everywhere ...regardless of each countries interpretation of that Law ..... I hear many times that Linden Labs is American so american law applies. Unfortunately Linden Labs is now international and has an international userbase, It doesnt matter wether its Europe, USA or Australia (just examples) Tolerence of others cultures, societies and beliefs are paramount to what gives us freedom in the REAL world.

We ALL know that there are teenagers in the Main Grid... in this day and age 15 IS pretty much an adult these days, I agree Mature content is just that.... but I dont believe that MSN has age limits .... it expects YOU to know what is appropriate with a minor and even then ... what we call a minor is down to each countries depiction. Here in the UK .... if your 16 your well on the way to adult hood ..... 18 is pretty much adult. In the US different laws apply.

Maybe the way to go is to lower those walls ..... allow the teens in the Main grid and create more PG areas and less Mature areas. Personally..... I have land in both Mature and PG sims and none of my content is Mature rated. With age verification we could stop the younger users pretending to be older and restrict the mature areas to the same criteria as the internet ..... as many call SL Web 3.0 should we now start to treat SL as such and allow the vast differences of RL to come together ....

SL isnt a Eutopia ..... nor does it claim to be ....
SL is a thousand servers whiring away in a couple of datacenters ..... what makes SL is YOU ... the users ...

If its laggy ....... look at whats around you, if its full of Adds, then maybe its server load ... if its a club with a hundred lights and 50 people all running dance scripts ... then thats a load, do we say ... " hey I want to be here" or do we sit and complain that a "young" virtual world that pioneers the format is having difficulties and we will struggle through.
We expect that everything should run EXACTLY as we want WHEN we want ... unfortuntely life isnt like that ...second or otherwise... land is expensive .... clothes dont always make us look thin or sexy, we dont always get a bit of "afternoon delight". What we get is aplce we can meet other people in what is essentially a white sheet of paper ... like our children ... we come into SL with nothing but the shirts on our backs .. we make the world around us and our world influences others.

Look at the Hogwards sim ...... look at a LOT of the gorean sims

I say ..... Thank you Linden Labs.

For creating the format that WE can make how we like ... allowing the flexability for us to depect how that world looks ...feels and interacts with those around us.
Giving us the ability to allow people with limited PC abilities to still interact and explore thier own creativity.. creating a forum that allows us to voice our opinions .. good or bad.

Remember SL is massive .... and continues to grow... Land isnt in short supply any more.. of course LL want you to have large tier fees .... but thats the cost of Second Life, Land Barons will be looking to offload expensive tier fees for land that is lowering in price daily.

The future is in content.... and the content is YOU...

YOU are Second Life......

You are the Future of Second Life.....

Now wheres that bloody update .... its 20.30 UK allready *lol*

never posted here before ...but.... HERE HERE !!!! well said

We ask for descent customer service, not the Holy Grail.

and at the end of the day all linden needs is john carmack. because he can do anything ll can do and he can do it better!

boo hiss boo hiss .. thought this was a thank you thread ... if its not a thankyou go create a hate thread instead

John was the Pioneer of many of what we deem today as the First Person shooter ... with games such as doom and quake.

I remember a computer with 16k of ram and loading software on tape ....

thank GOD we have moved forward ........

Sloppy code is king *lol*

there are already too many hate threads hey.

as a fellow IT Director, i agree with the op 100%!

here here!!

Thank You LL

john would rather put a bullet into his own head than to release bugs. he has been known to bin months of work and start something over from scratch rather than release dodgy code.
carmack is god.

John is an amazing programmer and designer. But he has faced none of the challenges that Linden Lab have faced, and will face in the future. I trust John to create the next visually stunning 3D experience. I will leave the rest up to the vision of Philip and his team.

Ooh no no. Microsoft isn't non proprietary, you're getting confused with Linux! We won't get into the Gary Kildall debate and as for PC's, IBM screwed up with that.

so lets not turn this into one

challenges other than being a starving geek while refusing millions of $ for his code? or the challenge of launching an entire genre and bringing 3d gaming to the masses? coding awe inspiring and revolutionary things in his bedroom with his lunchmoney for a budget? he puts the lindens to shame.

John has not attempted anything on the level of Second Life. The things that frustrate us all about Second Life and Linden Lab, have almost nothing to do with 3D rendering. I admire the man too. But this comparison is kinda silly.

im not arguing the Mac, PC, OS argument ... im just giving an example ...

And designing a game for a single machine ISNT the same as a multy platform ..... multiplayer ..

Imagine SL with ONE user ... YOU ... on JUST your machine ... with the rest being autobots that only had 4 different looks ...,

As said before .... this ISNT a hate thread .....

Its not about whos best ... its about what the Lindens are gingin us NOW .... its about what technology is available NOW ... now who invented the web ... or arpanet .... or who invented pong ... which btw WAS pioneering.

Its about what we have ..... where we are ..... and that allthough we shouldnt be ever so humble and accept bad service ... we should attmept to understand ... that a massive user base with limited funding ....


If you are all going to sit here and whing and moan ... about YOUR problems ... then I suggest that THATS maybe WHY SL isnt doing it for you ...

I dont know .... but if I was all bitter and sour in RL withour small mercies ... then my life would need a THIRD .. FOURTH FIFTH life .... becasue I would never be able to find the peice that i need...

To me ... SL fills my time .... and my need to create ...

It is what it is ....... give it time and patience

Maybe when we get

Microsofts Second Life
Google Second Life
Mc Second Life

When theres large customer servie bays all sat waiting to take your call (and your money) things will be better...

but for now ....

Second Life ... is .......

_________________________________________
Please enter your view here....

lets see, each sim is a map with 40 players in a 3d environment, just like quake... its not as different as you propose. and quake is multiplatform as well, and had 4 updates in 5 years...
limited funding are you for real??? we pay tier and inject money into this company every month!
and it seems a lot of people have the same problems as myself, so.....

The Grid Is Up

and just for the recond ..... John came from a pretty well off family ...

His dad worked in TV ... and he got arrested at 14 for steeling apple computers from a SCHOOL .... (nice person eh)

he was then a freelance programmer ..... NOTE freelance .. i.e NOT a struggling .. poor starving programmer.

The guy was a thieving towrag which as Wiki says

"and sent for psychiatric evaluation (the report mentions "no empathy for other human beings". "

If you want to know struggling ... I put MYself through University ... while holding down a job 7 days a week and having a small baby... my wife and I literally STARVING struggling to make ends meet with no support from the state ... or family.

I live my life NOW giving IT jobs to people who wants thier first start in the business ...

It doesnt make ME a hero ..... it makes me a normal responsible person who wanted to better himself...

Im here supporting the efforts the lindens are doing to make a better system .....

Trying to bring in new users .... with more tricks, bells and whistles ... becasue WITHOUT those bells and whistles ..... SL will crumble due to lack of funding

If only Second Life were as simple as Quake

But it's everything that SL is above and beyond Quake - the other 95% - that makes SL such an amazing experience, and such a difficult project to manage.

I agree with the sentiment of the OP. Hat's off to Philip Rosedale and Linden Lab for being so ambitious and visionary, even if you sometimes fall short of your own goals - and our expectations.

Er since when has Quake had streaming maps? Quake maps are precompiled, preloaded and are, for the most part, static. SL sims are streamed, dynamic and editable in real-time.

Where's the similarity?

Nina ..... Quakes engine was pionnering at the time the same as dooms ...

Im not arguing that issue ...

But we DO need to put things into perspective ...

If I took a picture of a sim over a month ... it would change DRAMITCALLY

and believe me... i KNOW about servers... and I know about coding and have built more than one linux cluster at uni....

Games technology has grown and developed significantly, I know that his engines are running Half life etc.

You can not relate the two systems and compair as it really isnt about that ... its about bringing something pioneering to the masses and atempting to keep the business model viable.

Yes we all pay tier...... do you suggest that SL should be free ... and that the lindens should run it as a free service to all....

What in reality is the expectations here outside good customer service.

the bandwidth requirements for SL are MASSIVE ..... server costs are emmense as are staffing.

Sometimes I just would like to hope that people stay for the game ... the experience

I certainly hope that people can be constructive ... critise ..... thats what being FREE is all about, slate the lindens etc .... if thats how you feel ... but in all honestly ... I think this should be about giving praise to SL creators and developers ....

In caparision .. lets all go to chruch and slag off god for not ending illness ..... and how can he bring new people into the world with out curing the problems of Life ver 1.,15

We .. like everyone else ... are just trying to get on with what we have ...

We have HUNDREDS of negatives ..... just trying to balance

In fairness to Nina, I think there are a lot of people - perhaps even most people - that think of SL as a very simple product, similar in many ways, and perhaps inferior to, a packaged 3D shooter like Quake. These people have no real idea just how complicated all of this is. And that is why you see such anger when something goes wrong.

Now I have been known to vent some frustration here from time to time myself. But I always try to temper that with the understanding that this is a massive and pioneering effort that is virtually impossible to do perfectly.

The fact is, nobody has ever done anything like this before. There is no comparison.

I think Persephone MIGHT relate to this ...

In IT ... I get requests for software etc ... or reporting a "fault"... and the question is "when will it be done" ... of course we can never answer becasue this is not a case of how long will it take to build a brick wall ...

The variables in the IT sector ESPECIALLY in software design etc ... are without comparison, The lindens DO listen to your issues ... but in reality ... how many "I cant send group IM's" do they NEED to hear without saying "piss and and let me work on it".

Phillip Linden went on the record as saying that the REASON he closed down the Linden help etc is BECASUE of all the negativity that HIS staff ... which he HAS to protect was feeling ... all the hostility that was placed on THIER doorstep...

Ive worked in call centers in the past ... and I can tell you being a shout box isnt a nice place to be.
I certainly wouldnt want the job.....

Being in the sector i understand the need for patience .... remember ... this is SL 1.16 its STILL in its first release..... i mean have you ACTUALLY looked at all the service packs your PC asks for ... there is a LOT .... software development is a living breathing creature ... it NEEDS the feedback good or bad ... somethings you can fix now ... somethings take longer

I can certainly relate. I am a software development manager with some very large and complicated projects under my belt. I have been in IT far longer than I will admit here. While I sometimes take issue with certain decisions and the management style of Linden Lab, I think the spirit of this thread was to thank them for the amazing things that they have accomplished thus far. I do not pretend to think I could do it any better, and I would venture to guess that even somebody as capable as Mr. Carmack would run screaming from a project like Second Life.

Dito Persephone,

Thats the point im trying to make here ....

Lets say thanks for what IS here .... everyone needs a little encouragement.. and yes we cant say that LL is without error or problems ... BUT for the most part ... its here .. I just cant believe the negativity that goes on.
IF and i mean a BIG if... all that the forums are gonna be is ME ME ME ME ME ME... and complaining ... i would hate it ..

Yes ive made posts about different things i care about .. age play etc

but PLEASE lets keep this thread a possitive one.. becasue it would make a bloody nice change.