Terrain Griefing Solutions???

Hello,

so sorry, it was not really clear that this 'person' vandalized the *whole* lot... oh boy... sorry.

But still, take care which options you check and/or uncheck... especially here in SL. The thing is... well.. as much as we like SL and RL cannot be compared. This is where we both are lacking with our comparisons.

In RL there would be a real chance to press charges, as you clearly stated with your example. In SL here... well... there is this 'anyone' thing. And this is where the 'person' is clearly within the boudaries if you like it or not... bah.

The same thing with the Landbots buying land set to 1L$ and to 'anyone' accidently. As much as we complain, as much as we discuss this and as much as we argue... there will be only one response 'It was set to anyone'. The System provides (adequate or not) tools to restrict the access... one way or the other. Use them.

The only thing that is really sad... bah... there are people out there who really think this is fun.... bah...

to the ppl who continue to compare this to RL


you can't go in your real yard and set permission that no one can dig a hole, your whole point is invalid as this is not RL and it is SL and we do have 'premissions' and if you GIVE PERMISSION then you GIVE IT......come on, think a bit


it is not griefing, you TOLD THEM THEY COULD DO IT by settin the persmission.

Those penguins are clever buggers ain't they?

Umm .. sorry but that is the default in my backyard

LOL I do see your point though. It might have been clearer to say you can't set permission for people so they can dig a hole .. and then complain when they do.

This whole RL/SL concept realy really throws people. There are so many grey areas that blurr across. Some people want to make SL real ... hence the ageplay debacle

Lillyann, you're defending malicious behavior. Please stop.

On the other hand, the OP's friend was negligent and is responsible for his loss. Right, his bad, and he suffers. He couldn't even file an AR against the perpretrator. However, the offensive fellow was malicously destroying the work of others, which IMHO is causing grief, or "griefing". This guy was being nasty on purpose and taking advantage of the OP's friend's lack of judgement. (The OP's friend avoided an unlikely problem, losing his land if trusted friends left a group they were asked to remain in, for a likely problem, of "anyone" coming along and destroying the land. Not to mention that there was a simple solution dodging both of these bullets.)

Simple problem, simple solution. Bad guy, foolish victim. Wow, just like a soap opera. If people didn't do stupid things, there would be less drama. But if malicious people didn't take advantage of the unwise, there would be a LOT less drama.

Cheers

Ah, you DID stop. Missed your last post Lillyann, sorry.

I wonder how many of these "blame-the-victim" posters merely imagine themselves as appearing superior to the victims and don't see how mean-spirited and smug they make themselves look - and how many of them are people who have exploited others' errors themselves and need to rationalize away their own well-earned sense of guilt.

Well said, just hard to believe people support vandalism just because you allow it to happen by leaving permissions set.
And it does compare to RL, because these people "acting bad" would perform similar acts in RL too. If after painting your letterbox, you got distracted and left the can of spraypaint out overnight and some decided to paint hate slogans across your front fence they aren't vandals, just people "acting bad" because you gave them permission?

People are responsible for peoples actions, not other people for lacking to mechanically restrict them.
If we had to lockdown every possibility for griefing in RL then how would life be.
Perhaps the trouble is some people here have never been on the recieving end of people "acting bad" or perhaps some of them even would not see the wrong in climbing in your open window themselves.
We have graffitti down the street of swastika's on the road, local council did not put anything into place to prevent it so therefore people "acting bad" used that as permission to redecorate.

well you can report a theft to the police but if you tried to put in an insurance claim for the damage they would get nothing because they left the window unlocked. YOu would also get a lecture about locking doors and windows from the police along with 6 dozen pamphlets.

(real world example = real world application)

/shrug

The point is not whether or not you left the window open but that someone crossed a line deliberately into you property and performed acts due to their own desires, not that it's ok for them to do so because you automatically granted permission to do anything they liked by leaving a window unlocked.

Police catch person, charge him with theft, he IS a theif whether or not the insurance company thinks so.
RL example = RL application

No feeling superior feelings here at all. Been there often myself. Said some nasty words, corrected what went wrong with the help of given advices. Lesson learned. That is all.

BTW nice pointing fingers you do here yourself.

Morwen.

But if a thief enters your house through a window you left open, the involved authorities will lecture you that gave "oppertunity" to what happened. Specially in area's that are "high risk" as big cities (I lived some time in Amsterdam). And some insurance companies may even lower the payment they will make to you.

Also at other places (as the mentioned Falklands, or the middle of nowhere I live now) things may be different. But when things do go wrong, the authorities involved are mostly not from here, but from a nearby bigger town or city.... so be sure, the lecturing will happen in such a case.

I consider SL an "high risk" area.

Morwen.

Yea right. many have had this happen just because the option is showing does not give those right to do it.

Hit the F1 only if you know whats it about

who's you fend I would like to be able to help him out in working on the park and other things L$. I would like to support this kind of project.

Hello everybody,



sure he IS a thief. But, the police would lecture you. Still the would be prosecuted, no doubt and I surely hope so.
Now try to see it the... errr... how to say without being accused of ignorance and past malicious intends myself... ok... try this..

We are all in SL, right? We are standing at this beautiful thingy and look at it... and see the 'Edit terrain' enabled... what would you do? Right... We would IM the landowner and ask him if he probably forgot to take it away. This is the proper way and shows that you care.
The problem is that there are many... well... too many people that cannot grasp the thing with the 'private property' in a virtual reality. You, me, the OP and the rest of the posters have really got this.
Now... imagine that we call for support as we see somebody (clearly not the owner) going all over the land and destroying it. Destroying countless hours of work. So... we AR him... right away. And... guess what... a representative of our supportteam shows up in time.
Take a breath and hold it... honestly... what would that representative do?
I think we would be lucky if he would warn that person. And over that I am not sure that he would set the land to 'no terraform', so that it would be 'secure'.

LailaLei, my apologies again if it seemed that I defended the actions of that 'person' or if I may have sounded that I support this.

Tegg, I see your point. There is no excuse for the destruction that was caused. But it was not my intention to excuse it. But, as I said before, RL is not SL. In RL there is no 'anyone' setting. Cars are not comparable to software. This is slowly seeping into peoples minds.

Har, well.... thank you

The sad thing is... well... yes... the sad thing is that the only real action that can be taken against this person is catching him red-handed and banning him.

Bah... aplologies again if I sounded like excusing the havok... but this thread does emphasize (for me at least) that you should triple check your settings, regardless of what you do in SL. I just checked our land again, just to be sure. And... bah... keep in mind that there are people out there that really get a rise out of destruction and grief... bah...

I think the OP's questions have been answered. As for 'blaming the victim' or 'feeling superior' I agree with Morwen here; 'been there, done that, learned from our mistakes' No question of superior.

I don't think anyone has actually said the perpetrator(s) weren't bad people. I myself leave my land open to visitors with object entry on so they can open packages etc, but leave terraforming off. I think I did that Day 1 thinking I simply don't want anyone else altering the ground.

Again, I don't think anyone actually said the perpetrator wasn't bad for doing this.
I don't know the actual figures, vary to the locale obviously but in RL, there is a large percentage of what is called Opportunism Crime ... remove the opportunity, prevent the crime.

Just because It's Immoral does not make it illegal.

Tell your friend to regularly 'rebake' the terrain after each major terraform done by his friend the builder. This is the same as 'saving' an important document regularly. If any griefer ruins the terrain, then it can restored quite easily by reloading the terrain file. If the terrain was landscaped as well, with plants, etc, then get your friend to contact concierge services for a rollback.

Do this in addition to the other useful suggestions, such as creating a group.

Actually, two people said that it wasn't greifing (although one did say it was "kinda rude" and that's pretty much saying the perp wasn't bad for what he/she did. I think that's the source of the rub as it makes it seem as if the victim is entirely at fault. Granted, it wasn't a wise idea to leave the land openly terraformable, but the one who did this to him is still an asshole.

As a remark of mine is addressed here.... Yes, I only consider it as rude behaveour. Rude = no good = bad? But whatever. Have your playing around with words.

You better read the responce again to the person who tried to show us as "these "blame-the-victim" posters merely imagine themselves as appearing superior". She was very wrong.

Anyway in the situation of the OPs friend you do two things:

1. Go around and scream "greifer".

2. Learn a lesson from what happend (listen to advices given) and try to avoid it in the future.

To be honest, I think only option 2 is the way to go. I have been often in such a situation myself. Learned from what happened and continued with whatever I wanted to do.

Morwen.

SHE?!! Boy, you have everything wrong in this case.

And frankly, I think BOTH options together are the way to go. Scream griefer, as a warning to others, AND learn. If you don't think so, leave some of your land open to terraformable by anyone for a while, and then let's talk.

Yes, people who are too trusting or are careless need to find out that SL is way beyond the Wild West - it is the Law of the Jungle here, except only in cases where LL thinks its business interests are at risk. Nevertheless I personally am not so Darwinian as to think the malaria parasite is on a similar moral footing as the person who forgets to close the mosquito netting around his/her bed at night in the tropics. I [sarcasm on] APOLOGIZE FOR MY NAIVETE [sarcasm off].

That said, there is entirely too much schadenfreude (look it up if you need to) in these threads. That is contemptible. "It's your own fault. You shouldn't have stood so close to the punch press or the threshing machine and lost your hand and forearm. Noob."

And hey, look up "compassion," too. It's in the same dictionary as schadenfreude, if it's a good dictionary.

Towards those that don't think this was a greifing incident, I'm not sure he's all that wrong.



I absolute agree with #2 and the perp who did this is a greifer just like the perp who climbs through the open window to steal something is a theif. Calling this not a greifing incident doesn't help the OP's friend and only serves to raise the drama level in the thread.

Seems you have all wisdom and knownledge with you. '*bows humble*

There is lot of compasion in helping people to understand what went wrong and how to prevent it in the future.
By helping them prevent that things go wrong again, you help to prevent to suffer "damage" again.

Which is in my opinion a lot better then jumping around on these forums and point at people.

Morwen.

In my opinion people on these forums use words as "griefing" and "exploits" a bit too fast. But that is my opinion.

The drama was in my opinion not caused by people who tried to explain that there was a simple mistake made and someone misused it.

As I said way back in this thread, it is bad that so much hard work is undone by this. That still stands.

Morwen.

Is it possible for people to terraform land which are not on the access list and when the permission to do so is set?