Terrain Griefing Solutions???

A friend in SL was recently griefed. First, I should explain that he is a conservationist. He owns over 88,000km2 spread out over three sims. He has a few houses on the land but he doesn't rent it out, he doesn't have any businesses on it (except for his bulder's shop and he doesn't receive any income from that. He let her put it up as a favor for her work on the park, which is all pro bono). Basically, he doesn't make any money off this land. He just has it because he likes the idea of open mainland that isn't cluttered with spinning prims and porn. He is in the process of transforming this land into a huge park. Because the park is under construction, it's not listed in Search, although it is on his profile. In order to allow his builder, who is also one of his best friends, the ability to terraform the land, he has the land preferences set so that any one can edit the terrain.

Friday night he logged on to an urgent IM from his builder, stating that someone had come onto the property and used the terraforming tools to completely raze the land. I didn't see the damage but he told me that the person(s) involved created huge holes, erected giant mounds of dirt, and basically bulldozed everything else so that even though the objects (like trees) are in tact, the terrain is just a mess. It took him and his builder all weekend to fix the damage and they are not even finished yet. Because the perpetrator(s) didn't leave any objects, he can't ban them from his land. He can't even file an AR because he has nothing to AR.

He wants to leave the park open so that his friends and passersby can drop in until it goes live. He hates banlines and security orbs and doesn't want to use those either.

This is his problem: He doesn't want something like this to happen again. However, he doesn't want to change the land preferences so that only he can edit the terrain because then his builder won't be able to finish her work on the park. I suggested that he parcel off a small section of land, set that land to a group with him, his builder, and me, and then give the group members the right to edit terrain. Once the builder finished her work, he would then set that land back to himself, and then repeat the process on another parcel.

He is concerned about that idea because he has heard horror stories of people losing their land when people leave the group. He is also concerned about a land bot swooping in during one of these parceling sessions and making off with his land. There's still a lot of work to do on the park, fixing the griefing aside.

He is very upset about this and feeling discouraged about continuing the park. So, on his behalf I am asking the following

1) Is there any way to identify the perpetrator(s) of this griefing even though they didn't leave any objects? If he could just ban them I think it would put his mind at ease.

2) How can he stop this from happening again while still making sure that his builder has access to the terrain tools? Would my suggestion work? I am not a landowner so I came up with that idea just because I lurk on these forums. Are there any other techniques he could use?

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

I cant help you on all of your question, but just a note about groups, if he was to create a ALT, and then add the ALT to his group, that would solve any problems if the group was disbanded suddenly for whatever reason, as he would if effect have himself in their twice,l as there always needs to be at least 2 people in the group.

Hope this helps, it sounds fantastic what he is doing, what a shame someone is ruining it

it's not griefing, your friend had it set so ANYONE can edit land


and some people did........



hit F1 if you want to learn more....

Invite the builder into the same group as the land owner, and the land owner sets the land to Group edit only for the land. Have the land owner set the group the two are in as the group for the land, but no need to deed the land to the group. Problem solved. =)

public terraforming = public terraforming

as suggested, add to group, create a new role for the builder and set acess allow to terraform

create an alt
create a group - land owner has all rights
place alt in group
sell land to [named group] only (not to "anyone"
if you are paranoid sell the land for over its value and shift the money back later
allow terraforming only to group
land owner/group owner then sets permissions for builders within the group (call them officers or whatever you like)
done

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions. I've passed them along to my friend. I just have to say though that I don't agree with the opinion quoted below:




So by that logic, I can fly around to any parcel, check it's land permissions and wreak whatever havoc that I can. If it wasn't griefing, then what was it?

this isn`t grief, that`s offering an terraforming sandbox for the public, the Options screen clearly says:

Allow other residents to: Edit terrain

not understanding land settings is self grief, not by some 1 else as it`s just a matter of time till some 1 does it
same with all the rest of the setting, if u can`t secure ur land, don`t call the ppl who abuse it griefers but bastards
same as with create/enter/script permissions and auto return, if u don`t know how to manage the land then ask ppl who know

Nice attitude, if some just decides to drive into your yard while you're out with a bobcat and starts digging holes and pushing trees over then it's ok of course because you should have had signs & a locked gate if you didn't want that to happen.

Agreed that he should have invited his friend to a landgroup and created an editing role, but no need to be an arsehole about it.

That sounds like blaming the victim to me. Someone did something really malicious to a friend of mine. You're saying it's essentially his fault. So anytime someone uses the tools in SL against another person in a malicious manner, it's not griefing then? Good to know.

no, i`m not blaming him but blaming to label some 1 a griefer when it was his own mistake of having the land unsecured

that`s the same as setting ur land object creation enabled with no auto return, u can bet that some 1 will plant a house there or what ever else
both are to blame, land owner for not doing it right and the person for screwing it

Don't feed the troll. Of course it was griefing.

And I'm sure all landowners will appreciate the warning they have one more thing to be careful about.

Would it work to put up ban lines with only the owner and builder allowed access when the work was going on and then changing the settings on the land back from allow all residents when the work is done for the day? Then the ban lines could come down too. So when the terraforming is enabled, use ban lines and allow lists; when not terraforming, limit terraforming and take down ban lines. Or is it possible to terraform land if you aren't on it?

It was griefing. It doesn't matter what the permissions were on the land.

I can see your friends problem. I too feel LL needs to separate some of these group based tools from the groups menu. The ability to let friends on a list build, or terraform or whatever as long as their name is listed in the allowed list you create and do away with putting everything under the sometimes dangerous umbrella of "groups"

Until then the only answer without creating a group and giving the person specific rights, your left with locking down the server until it is finished. You could also leave it open but put specific signs around and maybe even an annoying notecard pop up stating that only certain user or users listed on this sign/notecard are allowed to terraform and the reasons. If your caught terraforming you will be ejected.

You might also subdivide areas to be worked on and only allow those areas to be terraformed at that time. Set both the areas already completed as well as pending work areas to non terraform, thus protecting yourself as you go. Best of luck to your friend and his work, more projects like this are much needed. Be nice if LL went back to paying those who did this sort of thing, it is really great for the community.

Isn't that why there are facilities provided by the platform, to allow/disallow certain people specific permissions to do things? Its is on virtually everything we do in SL.

If these permissions are ingnored, even with the best of intensions, then there are going to be potential problems. No more than in RL, the police/insurance companies loose interest if you are burgled, if you leave all your windows and doors open everytime you go out. Leaving your car keys in the ignition switch constantly and the engine running, you shouldn't be that surprised or annoyed if one day you find your car stolen.

I am not saying it's right, just a fact of life.

Hello everybody,

if you set anything in SL to 'anyone' be it land to sell, build on or terraform... well... what exactly do you expect? 'Anyone' means 'Whoever just comes by and takes the offer'. That... well... err... 'Person' just took up the offer.

I will not say it was polite to just terraform anything.. but then... I stick a sign in my garden 'Free to dig holes'... then complain about people digging holes?

Please read the help, knowledge base and the forum. There are a LOT of tips on how to deal with the landsettings and/or the selling of land.

'Anyone' IS 'Anyone'.... this does include the rude, impolite, illmannered and malicious... bah... and it is those few... bah...

Ahh.... so if you leave a window open one day and someone climbs through it and loads all your electrical stuff into the back of a van then trashes the inside of your house, they aren't really bad people you just shouldn't have left your house unlocked.

Especially if you didn't leave a sign saying "don't take my stuff and trash my house" people may just take up your offer.

Hello,



exactly. I left the window open in good faith that nobody steals. I baited them so to speak and the ones with low moral came in. Check your settings, windows and doors. If you live in good faith then please do not complain about people acting bad on you.

'One day' assumes this was an accident. But this was left 'open' intentionally for 'anyone'. Please do not accuse others (which really may have been malicious, I do not want to say otherwise, as we all cannot know that) of griefing if you invited them.

I have said it before and will say it again: Please inform yourself about what consequences your actions and decisions have. Please ask in the forums if you are not sure... there are so many kind people around who love to help. Sadly... well.. yes... sadly only the bad stick out.. as this 'person' who edited the terrain.

I call it just having common sense... it's not rocket science.

Ah good to know people taking your DVD collection, Laptop & CD player are only "acting bad" because you baited them to do it by leaving a window open.....

"Checkout 1, Checkout 1 , REALITY CHECK required!"

Hello



just ask your insurance company or a friendly police officer. They will tell you 'Left the window open? Well... bad luck.'
Well... we have a saying... which I hope to translate correctly 'Opportunity makes thiefes'... in this case... well... terraformers.

Oh... and I just made a check.. called our law-guys... in RL they would get you on 'negligence'. At least here in Germany. This means that the insurance company would not pay my whole collection, Laptop and CD player, if any of it
Should have locked my window... bah... but I did not know there were bad people that would take this as an invitation... oh boy...

May I ask... well.. not sure if this is rude... where can one leave their house open and not risking anything stolen when they come back?

Well actually......... I lived in the Falkland Islands for 2 years.. went out one weekend, left all the doors unlocked (not a problem there) and when I returned, found that someone unknown had noticed the milk outside the front door and put it in the fridge for me lol... pity they forgot to empty the dustbin and vacumn the carpets.. oh well.. lol

Actually... no. I can speak from real life experience in this case. Earlier this year my RL husband did something very dumb: He left the car keys in our car. Our car was then stolen. The police recovered it and arrested the loser teen who had been using it to drive himself to school. So, the cops didn't tell us "bad luck, your fault for leaving the keys in!" And the judge who sentenced the kid to 90 days in jail didn't let him walk because the keys were left in. And the insurance company still paid us for the damages to the car and paid us for a rental. So...

As much as I see what you are saying, I just don't agree. Should my husband have taken the keys out of the car? You bet! And I am always asking him where his keys are so that doesn't happen again. But... I don't blame him for our car being stolen. I blame the punk kid who stole it. Opportunity may make thieves, but it doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

As for my friend, he probably should have done things differently. He is trying to fix how he manages his land so that doesn't happen again. He told me that he really appreciates the helpful suggestions people have made in this post.

But let's be real: There's a difference between someone digging a few holes to learn about terraforming and someone spending probably hours to rip the hell out of several thousand carefully sculpted square kilometers. The former is ignorance at best, the latter is griefing at worst. That person intended to cause grief by his actions and he was successful. That person destroyed what had taken months to build. Yes, the land settings allowed him to do it. So that makes his actions okay then?

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity. And most victims make mistakes. However, the victims' mistakes don't make them responsible for their own victimization.

Well, it was not polite... it was not nice... even kinda rude of this person.

But if those premisions were lowered on purpose, I wouldn't call it griefing anymore. In SL those rights are given with an reason and we can set them with a reason. And we have solutions for things like this (the grouping that was mentioned). And I think a professional SL builder should have been aware of this.

Ans yes, it is very sad that hard work was undone this way. But the oppertunity was given.... and someone took it.

Edit: And SL is not the countryside where I live and everyone knowns everyone... or the Falkslands that were mentioned... SL is big collection of many and many different people, each with their ideas, principles, morals and whatever more.

Morwen.