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Don't Ask, Don't Tell?

Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-08-2007 14:12
So it is official policy but not officially. Why?
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Konshu Druart
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
03-08-2007 14:16
From: Malachi Petunia
So it is official policy but not officially. Why?


lol it was only a matter of time before the locked topic came back up.
AcidRaven Harrington
Linux User
Join date: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 86
03-08-2007 14:16
Because if they put it on the Blog it would show up when people loaded SL and they would read it and make posts, increasing bandwidth and making them retract there statement. Like they have on several other issues.

Or at least that is my guess.
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Acidraven Harrington
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Angel Fluffy
Very Helpful
Join date: 3 Mar 2006
Posts: 810
03-08-2007 14:20
blanked
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Konshu Druart
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
03-08-2007 14:21
From: AcidRaven Harrington
Because if they put it on the Blog it would show up when people loaded SL and they would read it and make posts, increasing bandwidth and making them retract there statement. Like they have on several other issues.

Or at least that is my guess.



Probably correct. Though the site lacks a real political access to the policies, voting on them, etc. However the issue at hand is kinda vague the way the Lindens state it. The policies don't specifically call out to it nor do the TOS from what I skimmed.
AcidRaven Harrington
Linux User
Join date: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 86
03-08-2007 15:11
BTW we are havening a get together at robins office. feel free to join. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/105/24/30
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Acidraven Harrington
Child Avatar
Height detector 1.0.4: AcidRaven Harrington is 1.191803 m
(3 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the Colors high…
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never say we die.
Freedom is for Everyone.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/full-reign-of-self-expression-for-consenting-adults-in-second-life.html
Konshu Druart
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
03-08-2007 15:12
From: AcidRaven Harrington
BTW we are havening a get together at robins office. feel free to join. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/105/24/30



Can't I am on break at work.
Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
03-08-2007 15:13
Hmm.. if they had a blog post on it, at least it would keep the discussion in one place, no? After all, most of us really want a clarification, which Torley clearly did not provide. That note card, even the 'officialized' form of it, is as clear as mud.
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
03-08-2007 15:19
From: AcidRaven Harrington
BTW we are havening a get together at robins office. feel free to join. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/105/24/30


I'll be there as soon as I can. Still gonna be there around 5 SLT?

Mari
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Gaybot Foxley
Input Collector
Join date: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 584
03-08-2007 15:19
I imagine that since it is such a controversial and sensitive subject, they are preparing it with the best wording they can. Hopefully comments will be closed on it even though it stimulates interesting conversations and debate. After that last thread and countless others that were closed, what more could be said on the topic?

P.S. What is the gathering with Robin Linden going to be about?
Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
03-08-2007 15:39
Its typical. A handfull fo aood ball christian right wingers protests because somewhere on SL consenting adults wish to age play, and voila "the community has agreed." Well I am part of the community and I do not agree. I am not an ageplyer either, but I certainly don't want my online community run by the same group of narrow minded people that run my real life. I come here to get away from them.

The all need to to get a big book of parental responsibility and get involved in thier kids lives, instead of asking everyone else, by way of public inistutions, to do it for them. SL is an adult world, and therefor the question of protecting kids should not be an issue at all on the grid.

A much better solution would be to simply not allow people from countries where these laws are in place to join SL. Allthough this is, in all liklihood, a move aimed at showing prospective corporations that SL is not another Yahoo.chat. If they are gong to court and keep the big guys, then we must all be squeaky clean.

Of course it might be easier top simply say, they are not child avatars, they are halfling avatars. And therefore there is no age play, simply child like creatures from fantasy who do not mature as fast as others do.


This is an abomination, and is the first of many we will see as SL grows to encompass the lowest common denominator.
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Lebeda 208,209
MadamG Zagato
means business
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,402
03-08-2007 15:43
From: Gaybot Foxley
P.S. What is the gathering with Robin Linden going to be about?
I was there for a bit thinking it was a meeting til I saw a protest sign attached to someone....so I am not sure what that's all about. Looks like aprotest to me, but I could be wrong.
Drakon Lameth
Polimorph
Join date: 4 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
03-08-2007 16:11
The gathering at Robin's humble abode/meeting area, is to ask exactly what the heck the specifics are about the seemingly blanket ban on cubs and little ones (aka, the babyfurs and the children of SL, who have to be 18+ to be here)

We're going to find out what all is happening, and what all is intended at this time... and to be done civily so we don't look like one of those Capitol 1 commercials, with a horde of unkept "barbarians"
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
03-08-2007 16:29
From: Jake Reitveld
Its typical. A handfull fo aood ball christian right wingers protests because somewhere on SL consenting adults wish to age play, and voila "the community has agreed." Well I am part of the community and I do not agree. I am not an ageplyer either, but I certainly don't want my online community run by the same group of narrow minded people that run my real life. I come here to get away from them.

The all need to to get a big book of parental responsibility and get involved in thier kids lives, instead of asking everyone else, by way of public inistutions, to do it for them. SL is an adult world, and therefor the question of protecting kids should not be an issue at all on the grid.

A much better solution would be to simply not allow people from countries where these laws are in place to join SL. Allthough this is, in all liklihood, a move aimed at showing prospective corporations that SL is not another Yahoo.chat. If they are gong to court and keep the big guys, then we must all be squeaky clean.

Of course it might be easier top simply say, they are not child avatars, they are halfling avatars. And therefore there is no age play, simply child like creatures from fantasy who do not mature as fast as others do.

This is an abomination, and is the first of many we will see as SL grows to encompass the lowest common denominator.

I'm in favor of it.

I don't think that having a rule against advertising sexual age-play - simulated pedophilia, or whatever you want to call it - is going to be the end of SL. Not having one might well be, though.

By the same token, I also strongly support LL's policy against hate crimes and hate speech towards ethnic groups.

coco
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
03-08-2007 16:29
From: Drakon Lameth
the seemingly blanket ban on cubs and little ones


LL is prohibiting advertising promoting sexual activity involving child avs, not the avs themselves. Context is everything and, given the fact that sexual activity is mentioned prior to the term 'age play' in the notecard, it seems pretty clear that their definition of age play is as a sexual activity.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Second Life Resident:

Linden Lab would like to inform you that your land or
business is not in compliance with Second Life's Community
Standards. The depiction of sexual activity involving minors
may violate real-world laws
in some areas, and the Second
Life community as a whole has made it clear that it views
such behavior to be broadly offensive. Linden Lab chooses
not to allow the advertising or promotion of age play or
related activities in any public forum
-- including in-world
textures, classified ads, the Second Life forums, or parcel
descriptions.

Advertisements, promotions, or descriptions of such
activities must be removed to avoid account sanctions. Any
account asserting an age that does not meet Second Life's
minimum age of eligibility will be closed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
03-08-2007 16:51
From: Ann Launay
LL is prohibiting advertising promoting sexual activity involving child avs, not the avs themselves. Context is everything and, given the fact that sexual activity is mentioned prior to the term 'age play' in the notecard, it seems pretty clear that their definition of age play is as a sexual activity.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Second Life Resident:

Linden Lab would like to inform you that your land or
business is not in compliance with Second Life's Community
Standards. The depiction of sexual activity involving minors
may violate real-world laws
in some areas, and the Second
Life community as a whole has made it clear that it views
such behavior to be broadly offensive. Linden Lab chooses
not to allow the advertising or promotion of age play or
related activities in any public forum
-- including in-world
textures, classified ads, the Second Life forums, or parcel
descriptions.

Advertisements, promotions, or descriptions of such
activities must be removed to avoid account sanctions. Any
account asserting an age that does not meet Second Life's
minimum age of eligibility will be closed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



They should clarify this - theres a lot of businesses and players that may or may not be in violation depending on the exact definition.
Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-08-2007 17:15
From: someone
Its typical. A handfull of [goofball?] christian right wingers protests because somewhere on SL consenting adults wish to age play, and voila "the community has agreed." Well I am part of the community and I do not agree.
...
This is an abomination, and is the first of many we will see as SL grows to encompass the lowest common denominator.
I get the distinct feeling that some politician wrote a letter to LL after gettting a call from a "concerned constituent". Sadly, this may be the only politically "safe" way for LL to play the hand that the goofballs deal.

Pure speculation, I know, but in this fine republic...
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
03-08-2007 21:04
From: Colette Meiji
They should clarify this - theres a lot of businesses and players that may or may not be in violation depending on the exact definition.


I agree. The note card should have a clarification here:
=======================================
Dear Second Life Resident:

Linden Lab would like to inform you that your land or
business is not in compliance with Second Life's Community
Standards. The depiction of sexual activity involving minors
may violate real-world laws
in some areas, and the Second
Life community as a whole has made it clear that it views
such behavior to be broadly offensive. Linden Lab chooses
not to allow the advertising or promotion of Sexual
age play or
related activities in any public forum
-- including in-world
textures, classified ads, the Second Life forums, or parcel
descriptions.

Advertisements, promotions, or descriptions of such
activities must be removed to avoid account sanctions. Any
account asserting an age that does not meet Second Life's
minimum age of eligibility will be closed.
=======================================

At least this helps define the type of age play being mentioned.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
03-08-2007 21:20
From: Tod69 Talamasca
I agree. The note card should have a clarification here:
=======================================
Dear Second Life Resident:

Linden Lab would like to inform you that your land or
business is not in compliance with Second Life's Community
Standards. The depiction of sexual activity involving minors
may violate real-world laws
in some areas, and the Second
Life community as a whole has made it clear that it views
such behavior to be broadly offensive. Linden Lab chooses
not to allow the advertising or promotion of Sexual
age play or
related activities in any public forum
-- including in-world
textures, classified ads, the Second Life forums, or parcel
descriptions.

Advertisements, promotions, or descriptions of such
activities must be removed to avoid account sanctions. Any
account asserting an age that does not meet Second Life's
minimum age of eligibility will be closed.
=======================================

At least this helps define the type of age play being mentioned.



im pretty sure thats the clarification people are looking for . They want to know their PG version of child roleplaying is not against any rules
Misty McConachie
Registered User
Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 6
03-08-2007 21:32
From: Jake Reitveld
Its typical. A handfull fo aood ball christian right wingers protests because somewhere on SL consenting adults wish to age play, and voila "the community has agreed." Well I am part of the community and I do not agree. I am not an ageplyer either, but I certainly don't want my online community run by the same group of narrow minded people that run my real life. I come here to get away from them.


I've been agitating for this sort of change, and I'm not christian right winger. In fact I'm very much a leftie. ;-)

Censorship is undesirable, but so is anarchy. A balance must be struck.

The majority of the community has spoken. Yes there are a number of individuals that disagree, predominantly furries and existing ageplayers from what I've seen. Unfortunately you can't please all of the people, all of the time.
tristan Eliot
Say What?!
Join date: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
03-08-2007 21:34
From: Misty McConachie
I've been agitating for this sort of change, and I'm not christian right winger. In fact I'm very much a leftie. ;-)

Censorship is undesirable, but so is anarchy. A balance must be struck.

The majority of the community has spoken. Yes there are a number of individuals that disagree, predominantly furries and existing ageplayers from what I've seen. Unfortunately you can't please all of the people, all of the time.


Not an age player myself, but i do wonder.. Where did the majority of the community speak?
Misty McConachie
Registered User
Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 6
03-08-2007 21:43
From: tristan Eliot
Not an age player myself, but i do wonder.. Where did the majority of the community speak?


I'd love to see a proper poll on this issue, certainly.

In an anecdotal sense I recall attending a general discussion about ageplay in SL (open to all and not bagging the practice just a *feeler* event) several months ago and was surprised that there were only a handful of people supporting it, and 15-20 avatars that were opposed to it.

You see it on forums and in response to SL news articles too.

But perhaps that's simply a reflection on the sort of people that enjoy engaging in topical debate?

My perception is that most people think sexual ageplay is unpalatable, but don't care sufficiently to make any noise about it and/or have issues with the censorship involved.
Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-08-2007 21:44
From: someone
The majority of the community has spoken. Yes there are a number of individuals that disagree, predominantly furries and existing ageplayers from what I've seen. Unfortunately you can't please all of the people, all of the time.
Allow me to translate:
Any one who advocates a opinion different than mine is a prevert and therefore their opinions have been defined by me to be invalid.
And from the looks of things you are the one who won't be pleased as LL has only asked that people not advertise a particular kind of preversion (which is already pretty much covered by the existing rules). The preverts are still allowed to do as they wish, just not openly advertise. Happy now?

And yes, I know how to spell "pervert".
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-08-2007 22:01
From: someone
In an anecdotal sense I recall attending a general discussion about ageplay in SL (open to all and not bagging the practice just a *feeler* event) several months ago and was surprised that there were only a handful of people supporting it, and 15-20 avatars that were opposed to it.
Translation time again:
An event was held by some people who wanted to denounce ageplay. For some unknown reason, not many supporters of ageplay showed up. I also had the same anecdotal experience with an event for beenie-baby collectors: almost all in attendance were in favor of beenie-baby collecting.
Incidentally, I neither age play, am a furry, nor collect beenie-babys. But know that 15-20 self-selected players is exactly the sort of sample that you can't make any supportable extrapolations from. Sheesh.
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Misty McConachie
Registered User
Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 6
03-08-2007 22:03
Actually I think it's the best outcome that could be expected, all things considered.
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