Is this harrassment?

It is not necessarily a 'trolling thread' if folks have questions and don't immediately agree and commiserate w/ you, even tho some have.

You DID ask!

And to further prove my no profit point, I had a line of shoes that I sold at several vendor locations & on sl exchange. I would sell probably 5-10 pairs a day on average at 75L a pair. I moved it all to the freebie place and made them 1L, again in all honesty thinking I was doing it as a good gesture.
I had a few shapes I sold as well, didnt sell daily like the shoes, but also was a small sorce of income that I moved to the freebie place and dropped to 1L.
I have some items like a lingerie set by vitamin C, That I had made specifically for me when I owned the club that I paid 10K for. I'm sure these people im'd her as well saying how I was profiting off of her items.
I have full perms objects that I have bought full rights. I have bought out a few small shops & products in the past, Like the echo equipment ect. So these people also recieved im's saying how I was profiting off of them.
I have wilted Rose items in the place. Rose was given im's about how I was even using her textures on the items because the person wasnt bright enough to see that Rose is owner of those freebie items.
As for itemizing stuff instead of boxing it in large groups.....
That was my whole intention, to sort and get rid of the usless inventory fillers that no one will ever use, and fill the place with quality items that would make a newbie, not look like a newbie. I still have hundreds of usless items in my inventory from these boxes when I started sl.

Very true. Sorry I just get a little defensive in forumns lol. Just feels like people are more interested in belittling others than acually contributing at times, so I always approach forumns in defense mode.

Attempt at answer:

1) Harassment? It sure sounds like it. But any time one side of a story is heard, one can only agree, yes?


2) Not much wrong with what you are doing. Why:

a) If these items are truly meant to get into the hands of new folk, then providing prims, time and effort on her part is only helping the creators toward that goal.

b) Charging $L 1 is *better* than $L 0. Ever find freebie box trash on your land? I've cleaned up hundreds. I doubt many people appreciate what it's like being near a freebie place. Many of us have reasons to not use autoreturn.


3) I really think this sort of 'trial by court of public opinion' isn't suitable here.

We can pose most topics as a form of resident question, but it's posting on pretty thin ice in my book.

But you see Sarah,

1. "NEARLY the entire sim" could still leave other original residents tearing their hair out, having their land investment rendered worthless, and having to build in the sandbox like newbies, grinding their teeth as they do so (obviously I've been there !).

2. How could you possibly know that everyone who bought neighboring land subsequently was "aware" of your club, ie knew what it was doing to sim speed ? One hasty click and it's too late.

3. Linden Labs problem ? Does this mean that consideration for neighbors need not go beyond that enforced by punishment and the law ? You consider this a recipe for moral behavior ?

From your silence on the camping issue I assume that you are happy for "get a lot of traffic" to actually mean "buy a lot of traffic by paying avis to park doing nothing".

Anyway, that's your past. Maybe soon we'll persuade LL to abandon the concept of traffic altogether, or make sure that it gives no advantage at all. Perhaps even charge a fee to any resident who hogs an unfair share of a sim's computing resources. There are always people who abuse freedoms and force their curtailment, and I fear shared-sim-venue-owners who overload a sim with campers for their own greed are firmly in that category.

Coming back to your current question, rather than my suggestions about why these people might perhaps hate you as a result of your club-owning past:

If you are indeed now pricing your objects at L$0, then that seems the best and most logical way out of the dilemma you presented us with in your original post. Your venue does look like a grand newbie resource, and on that basis I wish you well with it.

I suggest you invite your persecutors to visit this thread. After which they should either see you in a new more reasonable light, or perhaps tell us all why not.

I wonder did everyone complaining about Sarah Charging $1L Miss the part where she said she Rolled all that money over into her Money Tree?
In effect, she gets Nothing from it, and a Lucky Newbie or two gets to Pick a few handfulls of lindens off a Tree.
She Does have the designers permissions to present the items as she is doing, so these self styled avengers (Who have Bullheadedly mistaken Sarah for someone else) Most definately ARE engaging in harassment. Sara should hather every IM, chat, notecard, and witness she can, Hand it over to the Lindens and ask for these people to be Banned.
They are going off, not even Half Cocked and Attacking people without cause.

Angel.

Maybe so, maybe so. But selling freebies PERIOD is a sore spot for many moral folk in SL.

But as was asked earlier by Barmovic, why sell a freebie to a newbie and then give it back w/ a money tree? Too much bloody work IMO.

Harrassemnet? Sure it is.....she can and should AR that behavior. Doubt it will help.

But just because LL doesn't have a clear and concise policy in place about selling freebies doesn't mean others' won't take up the cause, which I suspect happened in this case. Vigilante justice can do wonders at times.

And just my two cents.....she has repeatedly stated that she is 'clearing away the TRASH freebies' and 'selling the GOOD stuff' for $1L each.

And to that I can only say.....'One person's trash is another person's treasure'.
I am not into guns, vehicles or many many other great freebies out there, but that doesn't make them LESS valuable to someone else.

Just say NO would be my best advice.

Wow, what a couple of arse wipes. (I can say that here, right? I hope..?)

This is going on month two for me as a SL resident and Sarah's 1L freebie shop was one of the first places I came across that had a great selection of items that were good quality. A box of helpful notecards, some amazingly great realistic skins, fun clothing choices, etc and the really cool part of it was: I got my 3 whole linden that I spent that day, back from her.

To those who have taken it upon themselves to harrass Sarah and try to tarnish what she is doing in anyway: grow the hell up. There is absolutely no way she could be turning a profit and in fact, the only thing she is doing for the originating designers is giving them free advertisement of their products. This SL world needs people like Sarah Nerd to help present the better aspects of Second Life and give new players insight and direction.

Keep up the good work Sarah. You had a great club!! I would be one step ahead of these wankers and IM every designer's whose stuff you are reselling for that $1 and let them know what you are doing. Maybe they might even donate an item of clothing or whatever, to help newbies get on their feet in SL.

Sarah mute them and keep an account of all contacts made to those vendors you have gotten permission from and have them file reports and keep a copy of the ims as well. as one poster here put it sometimes it takes a few reports before the lindens realise there is a problem.

as for those of you who are raising a stink over her "selling" a box of freebies for 1l, get a grip, she is helping those who cannot afford a 300l shirt or 200l pair of pants. it helps get those who would like to play this game a helpful start and she has said several times SHE GOT PERMISSION from the vendors and the money goes right back into the store not her pocket. i pisses me off when those who help are treated like pariahs because the have the gumption to be helpful instead of harmful to new playersif you have an issue with her dont shop at her spot. end of subject.

i for one applaud you Sarah and those like you who are reaching out. dont let a few bad seeds ruin this for you.

I think I'm double sided on this one really. We all know theres always 3 sides to every story not saying u are doing anything wrong, however ppl put there freebies in there stores for lots of reason to get ppl there to let ppl see what they can do and many more reasons. I personal would get upset if anyone used my stuff with out promission from me but on the other hand anyone that asked i porbaly would say ok. using the stuff they made might upset them however I have my own newbie store and all my freebies i made my self expect for a few things and thoose few things the ppl that made them put them out. One thing I have noticed is alot of ppl are willing to help newbies out. You can im designers and ask them if they mind donating something for newbies. Let them put the box out them self. I know Im willing to do that.

good luck

See but that's the rub, I stopped by her place and she does NOT sell a box of freebies for $1L. She sells ONE SINGLE item from a box of many, for $1L.

That will probably get people's dander up.

Yadni's has frequently made the PG-only version of the Popular Places list (what you get if you uncheck the "Include Mature" check box). So it's not impossible.

I take it, John, that you have never ever posted anything in the heat of the moment.

Perhaps you have never been upset?

I spend most of my working life proofreading. I speed read. I saw a few things and I was capable of empathising that Sarah was having a hard time in SL.

EMPATHY

Apply that to your post when you re-speed-read it.

Sarah, I have had dealings with you previously. You were extremely polite, friendly and honest.

Illegitimi Non Carborundum!!!!

Just a little comment on Empathy (in general, not specific to the question in this thread):

The advantage of using EMPATHY as the guiding principle of one's life is that one can always claim the moral high ground and present oneself as a GOOD PERSON.

The disadvantage is that empathy is often the enemy of rational analysis, and therefore, ultimately, of justice and fairness.

The empathic will tend to be swayed by each sad story brought to their attention, and empathy feels no need to listen to the other side of that story. Nor can empathy spend time on the possibility that its target may be paranoid, deluded, malicious, self-centred or just blind to the bigger issues at stake.

True concern for others does not reside in uncritically adopting the point of view of each plausible complainer you meet. This attitude is only really appropriate for children, whose main concern is to be liked, and who need not ever take any actual responsibility by participating in a real decision-making process constrained by the need to achieve a just and fair practical result.

Back to specifics:


1. Criticizing the grammar, sentence construction, spelling etc of other forum posters is, in my opinion, neither polite nor intelligent. Naughty boy.

2. Freebie selling is a difficult and complex issue, involving as it does the rights and intentions of the creators, many absent and uncontactable. And the hard fact that many apparent freebies were in fact stolen and "released" during past exploits of the permissions system.

It also raises wider issues relating to the advisability of a "welfare state" which may remove the pressures to learn, earn, and create for oneself. No-one here seems to have even considered this aspect.

just a thought . could you not charge a land fee to enter your land , and then keep you free stuff free?.
that way you still get some Lindons for you money tree but wont get people yelling at you about charging for free stuff .

Actually, Bazzerbill, you don't have to be ON land to buy from it. Stand just outside, push your camera in and around, and click away. Unless of course it's a private island, which Sarah's is not.

I don't mind paying 1L for a freebie, especially if it helps fund a newbie tree and keeps me from having to do hours of work just to sort through the stuff. Besides, that's not the issue she posted about. The issue she posted about was if the behavior of those players could be considered harrassment.

Short reply: Yes. Regardless of the selling of freebies or not, that is harrassement. It's pointless and hostile. The issue could be resolved in a far less hostile and intelligent manner, which is much better for everyone involved.

Sorry, Raudf, how is this even faintly relevant ?

The question is about what CREATORS think about other people charging for what THEY CREATED. Looks to me like probably Sarah is in fact doing her best with this difficult situation, now she has told us she has dropped her prices to zero. But lets be clear - this is about "harassers" objecting, complaining and reporting on behalf of creators. And lets also admit that not all creators can be contacted, and that some apparent freebies may have been stolen, so that the creators wouldn't even want them given away free.

It's difficult, it's fraught. But its NOTHING to do with what you might feel about your own personal willingness to pay L$1.

I try hard not to do too much empathy because it costs me money; it’s a bad habit I tell you! And sad to relate I cannot bring myself to fake it either. So it seems I am doomed -

Hi Sarah.

I bet it is someone competing in the land business. I have been looking at that business lately and it really stands out that you are slightly undercutting them. Since they couldn't deal with you on that front.. they attacked from another direction.

That is just my opinion.

Don't worry about what they say. If you feel you are doing a good thing, by all means keep it up.

*smile*

Well EVERY Designer who has contacted me has been super cool, and I've even been given more items. Only part that sucks is the fact that I have to do damage control with my rep because a few nosey people decided to make a few very broad assumptions and go a pointless mission to take me down. At least most (not all) are willing to judge me based on my dealings with them and not just base views of me on the ramblings of 2 randoms. Thanks to everyone for the views and help. It helped us format my place in a way that I think should make everyone happy, or at least the majority, and thats the best I can do. Thank You all again!

OK, I am a little late to this one but, the bottom line is, if you have permission from the designers, then you are doing nothing wrong and anyone who is bothering you in any way about it, is harassing you. Please AR them, I have seen nothing but good from you in our interactions and from what I have heard from others, and you definitely do not deserve this kind of treatment for any reason.

I also agree that it may be related to land sales, there are a couple of newer land sellers that have been griefing other land sellers in the past week or so, so I wouldn't put it past them to be using alts to harass you as well.

Well I said that was a potential issue right the way through this thread. It is no skin off my nose as they say because I can earn much more money from chairs and finance than I can trading 512 square meters of land.

But before I logged off SL this morning I see she (Sarah) has quite a lot of land for sale at an average price of 4.8 SL per square meter. Although it is PG land, that is still way below the more usual average asking prices by other vendors. Therefore she must have some system of sourcing very low cost land to be able to justify selling at these sorts of prices, and that may well attract resentment from others.

I don't care what anyone posts about this latter point but presentation skills do aid the presentation of a straightforward and fair case. Objective thread readers will note I never criticized any of Sarah's land business abilities, I only pointed to possible causes of grief

Having said that though I wish her success in her business ventures