Is this harrassment?

I've been in sl for a year now. I ran a popular club for most of that year. I closed the club about a month and a half ago. I've been dealing land for 4, 5 months maybe?? Well as a side project, and what I thought would be my contribution back to sl, I opened a 1L freebie place a few weeks ago. I had aspirations for a place with quality items that newbies would acually use, and not handing out any of the junkie usless stuff that fill most freebie boxes. I have thousands of freebies I have aquired over my year, and people start handing me great stuff left and right. It slowly comes together with alot of help from my best friend. We sort, take pictures create textures, get great stuff up. We sit around talk to newbies answer questions, help with the sl basics. We have a great money tree with high output. Things are great. Well 2 days ago I log on to tons of im's. A guy comes in there im's every designer tells them I am making money off of there designs and I am the alt of someone else they have supposedly closed down before. The guy and his sl partner are very rude, and have decided to make it there sl mission to ruin me. First off I went into this entirley with good intentions. The place is ENTIRLEY Non profit and out of pocket, and thats fine. It was never intended to turn a profit. The 1l's I make are turned right back around into the money tree, and I also hire people to be there to talk to newbies, answer sl basic questions. I also have games that are 100% out of pocket payout. In all honesty I did not think that charging 1L was a huge issue in sl for freebies or I never would have done it. I couldnt make even close to my tier for the spots I have in the sim to cover the prims. I also made the assumption that if the designer gave something out with full permissions it was intended to be distributed to the community.
Well every designer that has contacted me has been awesome. I display the item as they see fit, with there landmarks, notecards, textures, anything they specify, and if they do not wish it to be distributed, poof I take it down. Well these 2 that are out top get me will not stop. They are im'ing several more people and starting a drive to get me and others banned out of numerous sl establishments, continue to tell people that I am the alt of someone they have an issue with (if you know me and the amount of time I'm on sl and how established I am youd laugh at that alt comment) They continue to im designers and tell them I am profiting off of there designs. I had my vending spot returned from a location where I have had a spot for probably 6 months, They are im'ing designers who acually own the items at my store saying I have stole from them because they wernt bright enough to look at the owner I guess. They wont let up and I dont know what to do. I filed an abuse report, but we all know how far that goes. I'm just at a lose and dont know what I should do. I tried to do something to help and now have 2 people attempting to ruin me. HELP!!!

It sound like it could well be harassment.

It is generally not a popular option to sell freebies for L$1 *each* though, particularly when the same items are available either completely for free or as part of a box containing lots of other things from Yadni's. It's not exactly a crime, you're not selling them for real money, but it needs to be pointed out to people who are donating, and perhaps publicising your accounts for the place would help allay suspicion.

Yes, this is harrassment. I remember when you started looking for items for your freebie place. You were specific about your goal to provide for the new players. Personaly I think putting the $1L back into the money tree is a very noble thing to do. It helps newbies even one step further then the already great item they can get from you. In theory the completely broke newbie can pick from the tree and use that $1L to get a cool item sending the money back around to another newbie to do the same.

Most people will ignore the "crusade" these people are fronting. But in the meantime AR them over and over when they act until LL steps in and does something on your behalf.

I wonder if it's karma...

This sounds like a old troll thats in the mentor group love.
Too many times there are nut(s) cases trying to make a name for themselves. Stealing a another person content is one thing. But being harrassed by a nut in a alt shows how far down the game of second life has become. No your not stealing someone else money, no your not making money on this, no your not geedy person at all. Don`t worry send a abuse report to llabs and [email]support@secondlife.com[/email]. Other then that like the kid play his game do your thing and just be happy. Its those that try to blacken others happyness with their own black heart is the reason why the game has become so dark these days on all levels of power on sl.........
As I recall there is a sent of screwballs from the mideast that caused alot of problems for others reporting would be content stealers. But then again those trolls al screamed about Copy right abuse LOL.....There is always a nut in every sim....BTW look at the police reports here. I bet that same group report copy right images as well.

It certainly is harrassment. It could also be libel.

There are always going to be those people who try to ruin someone else's fun. Report them, repeatedly if necessary. Get the other people they're contacting about you to report them as well. If enough people make a stink, I'm sure LL will do something (just keep in mind that Abuse reports are running a few days behind right now... I seem to recall that the last time I filed an AR, it was more than a week before I got the "resolved" message).

Yes, this abuse, but good luck trying to get anything done about it. Keep a written record of every incident, and submit an abuse report every single time. Yes, you won't have much time for anything else. But ridding SL of these dungbrains will be a better contribution than sorting out items.

at times Llabs cares less about additions infor. If the bull dog linden has it in his/her minds its breaks rules even its true or not your still in depp sh`t............

Sarah, several points.

First of all I am a very quick reader, I have to be to speed-read documents in my first life job.

However I had to copy and paste your post to Word to make sense of the points you are making because of poor paragraph construction and spelling. You must surely understand that to get your point across, people need to understand you. One long semi paragraph is not helpful...

On that point, "there" equals "There is Paris" or perhaps "There is some merit/demerit in your comments. Contra wise "their" equals "their inventory" or "their actions left much to be desired."

The points you raise have some merit but it seems clear to me there has been a breakdown in communication (which is not surprising given your post) between the connected parties.

It is possible that some relationship might exist between your various roles in Second Life, especially that of your land baron function. You are both remarkably swift off the mark when it comes to acquiring cheap land and selling it on, and sometimes quite ruthless in terms of bargaining. It is possible you may have upset somebody, and they see this as an issue to strike back.

I actually find it hard to understand how you can trade land and make a profit at the prices you charge and your possible tier level. In my own case it is simple, I only ever own up to 512 square meters of land and therefore more or less completely recover tier by the Linden stipend. But given that the creation price of Linden land is around $L4.46 per square meter (based on an exchange rate of around 290:1) I fail to understand how you can make a profit when you sell land at about 5.4ish per square meter.

So therefore it seems to me, and speaking totally objectively, the root causes of your problems may be tangential to the face issues.

Regards

John

Thisis a good point.But think about it.........1l even if she sell 1000 of them....does that merit a issue? Maybe Maybe not.But whats a even better point love is the Yadni`s a;ll his things are free.

I think one of the first things a newbie should get in her store, is a notecard full of links to other freebie places (Yadnis, Free Dove, etc), with the statement to the effect of most of the items can be found in huge multipacks elsewhere on SL.. and can be found for 0$L in many cases, but it may take many months of searching to find the few gems in the catsand.

Then she should explain, in small detail, that the "freebies" here are $1l each, and that they are the "pick of the litter".. she should explain how she carefully reviews each item for quality, and only provides the best freebies that she has found. Also she should state specifically that the money goes straight to the money tree, not to pay the rent.. so it's really all on the "up and up".

Also she could take this opportunity to point the newbie TO the money tree as well.

And of course.. if the creators of the onjects have a complaint.. she should comply with their requests if they ask her to remove their freebie from the store.... but that's just common sense.

Most people look at selling freebies as a nasty business in SL, despite the pretty face you are attempting to put on it.

They do mostly or the mentors tell them where to get the freebies. ( or aleast i use to tell them) Not sure abouthte other mentors did. But resources are important for the frebies and they do mostly get them. It all depends onthe quility of the mentor they are dealing with.

In many cases I agree with you BUT

Most of the argument is about people selling freebies for hundreds of L$ without the approval of the items creator. From what I gathered the OP has the approval of the item creators and I would assume they are very aware she is selling them for 1L. Also for those that compare to Yadni. It was not that long ago that Yadni charged 1L.

Am I saying I am 100% comfy with this? Nope. Wasn't thrilled with it at Yadnis either. But given the steps the OP put in place I really think the people that are harassing her are going WAY overboard.

A few things about $L1 items and freebies:

In the old days, $0L items were not tracked in your transaction history, so if you put out a freebie (either your own or someone else's) you had no idea how many were being taken without some scripting.

In the old days, every av, basic or premium, received some sort of stipend. So paying $L1 for something wasn't considered excessive, since everyone had at least $50L per week.

Yadni has been mentioned in this thread and his freebie ($L1) boxes were the model for compiling those $0L items into categories and having a place for them to be distributed. Personally, I think that paying Yadni the $L1 to box the stuff up and pay for the land it was on wasn't a bad deal. Sure, some of the stuff was crap, but I think a lot of people got their first avatars and textures there. I also think that he charged the $L1 to track how popular certain boxes were.

There are several people, including Kim Manilow and I on Parrot Island, that create original items and sell them for $1L. We do this so that people can have access to our items and we mark them as $1L items in the name/description so that people will have a hard time reselling them for more. We also market towards people with land and not basic account holders, so we know that our buyers can afford the L$1 cost.

In light of the fact that we have several hundred thousand new basic account holders without a steady supply of $L, if I were running a place that catered to newbies, I would offer a mix of $0L and $1L items. A sign explaining how you are using the $L1 proceeds would also go a long way to stopping people from harassing you about it (Not that you are making enough to even cover your tier by doing that!)

It is important to keep these basic accounts interested in SL, so anyone offering free or $L1 items should be encouraged to do so. As Darkness said, there are folks who rip off our new residents by charging them $L100 for a free gun and the like. Maybe those vigilantes should go after those people.

I never have claimed to be decent writer or speller, and ad a little frustration and anger to that and the typos go wild.
As for land, this issue has no connection to my land dealing. The people did not know me for land and had assumed I was the alt of Jenna fairplay. (LOL)
As for my bargaining, I recall giving you deal on top of the fact that I offer some of the lowest prices in sl. I feel I am fair in my bargaining. I do price low because I do not feel right marking up prices to excessive rates. And as for my tier, If I could not cover it and then some I would not hold so much land.
But I don't want to argue my typing or land bargaining skills, I just felt pushed into a corner I do not belong in with this situation and really did not know what I should do.

Relax hun because i am the worse typer and spelling around. Don`t let people get to you here. People that think they are so perfect withthe english languge themselve have issues of blackhearted themselves....... Its sad when people continue to harras people based on how smart they might be.........Those type indeed need a course of RL 101

Fair comment I suppose. In this world of instant communication it is sometimes easy to say something that in the cold light of day you either may regret or be quoted out of context. I learned that lesson a long time ago, which is why I copy and paste most BB posts to Word before hitting that blue send button.

I am not knocking your business model, indeed quite the opposite.

But I am just making the point that because you are quite good at what you do from the land side, that can impact on other more altruistic activities in SL you may be involved in, and could be misrepresented

People come to SL for a variety of reasons and human nature being what it is some become resentful at other peoples success.

For example my computer needs to be on for the best part of every day regardless of SL. It makes commercial sense for me to run SL providing it does not impact on other first life activities, therefore at present my Avatar is sitting in a camping chair in a mainland Sim with 38 other people on the same property. I see from the map all other land in that Sim is up for sale, which does not surprise me because the land is more or less unusable due to grid limits on location (40 max in mainland Sim).

I am honest enough to admit my actions might be inconsiderate but I don't make the rules, I just try to make a profit within Lindens TOS. But I can also understand resentment.

John,
Like many readers of this forum, we ordinary folk without jobs that require speed-reading also understand paragraph construction, grammar and spelling, and the differences between there/their, its/it's and similar commonly-misused words. However, most of us read the forum for content not for grammar. Or, if we do mentally parse the paragraphs as we go along, we keep it to ourselves. So, speaking subjectively, your forum post seems tangential to the orginal message.

It was -

BTW you are not ordinary.

But I will let others have a go now, it is not fair to hog the thread; even if the banter is quite amuzing

Yes keep records. I have several Freebies in a Freebie Board on my land in Tridens. I get People all the time who don't bother to read the difference creator and owner because they think they are super special like this dummy...



Quick to flame, slow to be of any useful help, and to interested in making a name for themselves... You know the kind... Push you down so they look better in their own eyes...



This is true, but it doesn't pay the bills for SL. Also, if you have been in SL for any legnth of time you know that some people don't have a clue as to either touch to get it free, or how to pay 1L to get it. So it really doesn't matter how you set it, you can be assured that they all know how to assult you via IM.

My problem it the assulting ideal. Why take the time to attack someone over the smallest thing? And, when you find that you behave like an idiot, why act like the person that you assulted is evil for defending themselves?

If someone doesnt like what they get for free, there is this little thing called "delete".

Also, If you feel it is a crime that you lost your 1L (100L cost $.67 in Lindex), maybe you need to stop playing SL so much and go get a real job. Stop mooching off your mommy and daddy, and stealing your neighbors wireless internet (you dope smoking hippie)

Sorry, did I rant? lol

To answer your question Sarah, yes it is. I keep records in my blog, and maybe I need to file AR reports more often as well. Things will never change if someone doesn't take the first step...

I think that if the designers gave you the stuff they know what you are doing with it and it gets their name out there which is what they want too right? So just ignore these people. Oh and what is your newbie store's name I meet lots of newbies and besides I still like free stuff too lol. I would like to see your store .

Elinah

I'm sorry, Sarah, your innocent indignation doesn't feel right to me.

It seems you are not, as others do, boxing up freebies and selling a whole load for L$1 (rather than L$0) simply so that you can track sales. Sounds like you are getting L$1 for each and every one.

If so, I am afraid I have to ask - why ?

If as you say, every single $ goes straight onto the money tree, you would suffer no loss by making every single object free. Why take from the newbies with one hand simply to give back with the other? Why damage your gifts of objects simply to keep up the "high output" of your money tree ?

This only makes sense if there is more to the story than you are telling us. By giving the items away you could eliminate all this "harassment" at a stroke, yet you don't even consider it.

One moment you imply you have contacted and agreed with all the creators and the next you complain that your harassers are still contacting more. Something wrong there too.

What else is on your land ? Are you attracting newbies to climb up the "popular places" ratings and so push some other activities ? Are ALL you "games" non-profit, or only some of them ?

If your motives are as altruistic as you say, just cut your prices to $0. The only result will be that the newbies can take their objects directly without having to waste time waiting for the moneytree to deliver the funds first. And of course everyone will love and praise you, unlike now.

On the bigger picture of your relationships with other residents, I need to ask you - was the "popular club" you ran for a whole year on your own private island, or did it share a sim with other residents ?

If the latter - I have bad news for you, which may partly explain the unwelcome attention you are receiving.

It is just possible that you were a very very unusual club owner who rigidly controlled hours of operation and never used camping chairs or pads to push sim occupancy to the point where other residents land was rendered unusable. I think it unlikely that you were so unusual as to act this well.

Otherwise, I have to tell you that in the eyes of many of us you have already demonstrated a serious moral flaw.

You have likely left behind you a trail of highly embittered ex-neighbors who feel themselves to have been seriously abused by your exploitation of the defect in mainland justice which allows one resident of a sim to virtually destroy the experience of other landowners by permanently packing the sim with sufficient avatars to slow all activity sim-wide to the speed of treacle.

Anyone who regularly pulls in more than 20 avatars in a shared sim has a major moral blindspot, aggravated to something close to blind greed if many of those avatars are not even enjoying themselves, but camping to help the owner cheat the "popular places" ratings.

If you are guilty of having behaved like this, your avi has probably made some enemies for life, and any new endeavour of yours will continue to be looked upon with suspicion.

And as for you, Mr Horner, I hope your self-confessed endless camping is not done in a shared mainland sim, or you partake of the same moral flaw, I am afraid.

That is one hell of a good point!


I was also curious about this.

Well, I have gone and made every item 0L seeing as it was a problem unless I have been ok'd by the designer. A freebie place will never have enough traffic to be on a popular list, and there is no need for it to be.
As for my club, I owned nearly the entire sim, and then sold off half of it. The people who came in were aware of the club and most of it was bought by store owners ect trying to work off of the clubs traffic. The 40 people rule should be taken up with Linden Labs and not establishments that get alot of traffic. Now, I am in a small spot in the middle of the sim with a club beside me. And thats perfectly fine with me. I'm not attracting newbies to something else, It's a newbie joint and nothing more, no need for traffic numbers ect.
And like most forumns seem to go, That really does not have to do with the original subject. This is becoming a trolling thread =(