Mentors Please

Yes, and I have known at least two females who were compulsive-aggressive interrupters.

Lighten up, man.

I base my comment on the widespread nature of sexist behavior by males, specifically in regard to talking over top of females, on many years of observation of the world at hand, plus some dimly remembered sociology and psychology classes taken at the height of the women's lib movement when people where paying attention to such things.

Lighthearted comments on the difference between men and women are a very old and extremely common way of engaging in banter.

Ok we all agree we don't like being interrupted or told what we're doing is wrong when helping a newbie. Maybe we can all then agree not to interrupt or tell someone else they're wrong. Only time we should help another mentor is when our help is requested since we all have different styles of doing things and one way is not better than another...only different.

Lighten up?

You've made a complete sweeping generalisation, based on, not a lot.. We haven't met each other while mentoring, yet you haven't hessitated to tell people I interupt!

I am also disapointed by these comments.. Its not right..

I am ashamed to say that the sexism and generalisation I see in this thread is mainly from the females and not the other way around.

In my experience in SL, the behaviour you describe is very uncommon. People do not make assumptions based upon the sex and appearance of avatars, on the whole, being aware that the girl they are talking with may well be a hairy lumberjack. The big advantage of text-based communication is that people may not shout to drown you out, or use a stronger or more aggressive tone to intimidate.

Falling back on the sense of humour defence is feeble, IMO. You made an unfounded assertion and have failed to offer apologies to the people that you caught in your sweeping statements, and who feel hurt by them.

In the circumstances, I really feel that you need to apologise. And would point out that if this is typical of your behaviour in-world too, I am not in the least surprised that people feel impelled to contradict you.
Cali

I have no intention of falling for that sort of baiting.

Perhaps we live in different social environments; in yours, you may be correct; in mine, politeness and good manners is the norm. Your assertion that those who deny it must be guilty of it, is patently absurd.

I profoundly disagree that all men are dismissive of women in the way you describe it. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that there are some. I have no data (apparently you have none either) to argue the case. My view is based on my own experiences too. Sexist behaviour as you describe it is not a male preserve....your 'lighten up, man' comment would seem to suggest that inappropriateness is not confined to my gender.

I've had this happen to me once before by a non-Mentor who butted into a Q&A with a new resident just to upset me, and made it very deliberate and apparent she was doing so. I didn't fly off the handle, as the person probably did it to spark a reaction from me. Two months later, I was helping a new resident for about 30 minutes over in the WA, went AFK for a couple minutes, then came back in time to see the new resident ask a question. I fired off a reply, then proceeded to get publically berated by the same non-Mentor girl from 2 months ago because the new resident asked HER the question, not me. I apologized to the hypocrite, she continued to berate me, so I said bye to the new resident and left.

Haven't had any problems with any Mentors trying to shoo me away- male or female. Sometimes when things are boring on HI with multiple Mentors on-hand, and one new resident arrives, I'll come say hello to him/her with the other Mentor in order to make that new resident feel extra-welcome. I also frequently hang around after to help, but I really dont see this at butting in- I might do so to add details or provide an alternate method. If the person beats me to the explanation, and mine has nothing to add, I just backspace delete it. No Mentors have told me that this annoys them, but if it does, just let me know- I'm just trying to help and I don't want to upset any fellow Mentors and drive them away, as we need all the help we can get.

(Somewhat off-subject: Am I the only person who completely refrains from using the term "newbie"? I'm not the most politically correct of people, but for some reason I find it the term "newbie" to be condescendingly derogatory.)

Hi Peeps
I Have to agree with you Cali!!!

I havent been a Mentor for very long, but have spent 7 years along with my real life husband, Running a team of GateGeepers/Mpderators, In a different chat enviroment (still3D VR chat), So am used to dealing with what tends to come up questionwise by newbies...

I myself have been interupted 3 times while on HI each time by a female !!!...

For the most part i have been spocken to nicely in HI by both Male & Female Mentors , Greeters, everyone, but in any enviroment such as HI i think you will always find the odd person who feels they "know it all" Personally (or at least up till now) i`ve just walked away & let whoever take over *shrugs* if they know better let them do it ...

I always add newbies who seem to get something from the way i teach to my friends list so if they need help in game they can contact me ...

Kis

Hello,

With my vast experience as a mentor and live helper (a whole month! <grin> I feel that a few important points have been made and hidden in this thread.

Gender - I understand that this may cause some difficulty, but as I am totally unsure of anyone's gender in SL, it's over my head.

Interrupting another helper - is what you have to add worth confusing the helpee, who may get two contradictory instructions on screen at once? If it is not, consider sending an IM, and offering advice to the current helper. I've often been given assistance like this, and I have often been very grateful for it. I suggest IM not because I 'own' the person I'm helping, but because it would be nice to avoid things like this:
Helper A: Any other questions?
Helper B: Hello!
Helpee: How do I wear this shirt?
<pause>
Helper A: In your inventory right-click on the shirt, and select Wear
Helper B: Drag the folder that contains the shirt onto yourself
<pause>
Helpee: Oh no!
<pause>
Helper A: OK, what's happened?
Helper B: Which thing did you try?
Helpee: My hair! It's gone!
Helper A: Bugger
Helper B: Bugger
(I am recalling a conversation from one of my first days as a mentor. I played the role of the enthusiastic and willing to chip in Helper B. Helpee forgave me and spent the next four hours trying to remake his hair. I learned not to do that again.)

Rudeness - In my example above, so significant harm was done. However I have been involved in several incidents now where different Mentors have been exceedingly rude to another helper (both official volunteers, and non official volunteers), in front of the resident who had asked for help. Rude on the order of name calling, insulting the helper's ability, qualifications, and communications skills. I feel that this is entirely unacceptable. Not only is this intimidating and unkind to the helper, but imagine it from the position of the poor helpee, who is standing there as the 'cause' of the altercation! I had read forums posts to the tune of get over it, and grow a thicker skin, but I believe that these can be cases of bullying. As corny as it sounds, surely while we are wearing one of the volunteer tags, we should be held to higher standards of conduct? We are in a unique position - especially on Help Island - as representatives of Second Life.


Thanks to the majority of SL residents new and old who make volunteering such a joyful experience,
Fairge

Lol! Now THIS I have seen happen more than once, and I don't really know how you get around it. Sometimes it isn't so clear whether a new person is being helped by a mentor...sometimes they willl approach a gaggle of mentors with a specific question and it isn't clear to whom the question is addressed.

I often call in on Help Island just to see how they are fixed for mentors. If there seem to be enough people about for the number of new people, I wander off again. Sometimes I stick around, either to help or to chat to mentors. I am wondering whether it would be helpful to have a mentor hat (I imagine a top hat with a mentor ticket stuck in it but that's just me) which makes it clear who is on duty and answering questions? I know we all have the mentor tag, but this would have the advantage of distinguishing mentors who are mentoring from those who are on their way to bed or just passing through.

It might also make people think twice about interrupting etc. Dunno, just thinking out loud really.
BWs
Cali

Bravo Cali

Its just not males doing its females as well. At times Egos rule the mentors/greeters at times, gesh arnt we all here to service newbies :/
Then again there is one LH person thats just as bad........You know if people really need to put other people down in this these groups. Maybe those people should rethink about being a LLab helper.

Katiahnya: I, too, find the terms newbie and noob a bit condescending. I usually refer to them as new ppl. The new citizen may ask, "do all newbies come through here"? My reply is, "not all new people choose to visit Help Island..."

Cali: Your idea of a hat is wonderful. I'll vote for that.

About being interrupted: I honestly don't mind it, I like meeting people and if I am helping someone and another mentor interferes, that is ok. I am there to help, they can take the one I am helping which will free me to go find another one, there are plenty of them!

About being insulted by another mentor: I just put myself in the new person's shoes: How would I feel to experience this? How confused would this make me? Is this what this game is about? Ultimately, it is not my wits or my verbal arsenal that is in question here, but my ability to help and make a new citizen feel 'welcome'. If I politely bow-out of a possible explosive situation, it is not because I can't speak for myself but because I am considering what this new person is thinking and how my words are going to affect him/her in their view and first impression of Second Life. The way I see it is: we are here to help these people and show them a possitive 'first' experience of SL and I will turn the other way, every time, before I leave a bad impression.

However, If I do or say something wrong, please, immediately IM me and I will correct it. If I can't be told that what I am doing is not right, proper or correct (and not take offence) how will I get to be a better mentor? I want to be a good mentor, the very best that "I" can be but this doesn't mean I want a place as the BEST and GREATEST mentor in SL.

If you try to insult me in IM, I will not respond; this is how you treat a child when he is having a tantrum. This is how I will deal with this type of behavior.

If I insult you (believe me, it would not be intentional) I will apologize sincerely. If you accept my apology, wonderful! If not, that's your problem, not mine.

Whether or not other mentors or citizens like my attitude is of no concern to me, I do what I feel is best for the new person, period. I am here to help them with their questions, concerns and embarrassements, not some mentor's PMS or Macho ego, that's peanuts compared to what we do to the 'helpee' when we bicker back and forth.

That's my two-cents worth.

Nani

I don't agree that it's derogatory; though we were advised to use the words "new resident" or something along those lines at some point (though it's obviously not being enforced).

Newbie is just faster to type than "new resident" or "new person." I honestly do not see how newbie could offend anyone. Maybe you could explain why you find it derogatory?

I personally don't find any negative connotation with the word 'newbie' - I see it as simply an informal term. When I'm speaking about myself and my own early experiences, I refer to myself as a 'newbie'.

However, I tend to use "New Residents" when speaking publically about others out of respect for those who might be offended by use of the informal.

Is it political-correctness run amok? Probably.

"Newbie" is kind of generic. My usage of it isn't frequent, but if someone refers to themselves as such, I may address them as "newbie" in kind.

However, for the specific purposes of Second Life, as long as "new Resident" may be, is one reason why I've shortened "Resident" to "Resi" . Perhaps that could extended to call new Resis "newRes".

"n00b", on the other hand, carries more of a derogatory meaning, the way I've seen it used in conjunction with other words like "PWN" and "STFU".

This whole Mentor thing is a very unique aspect of Second Life... and I like that we have unique terms too! Part of our culture.

I generally use the term 'new arrivals' until such time as they use the term newbie themselves.

I don't see anything wrong with Newbie, though now that I think about it I don't use it a lot either..

N00b (like Torley) I do see to have links to bad labelling, I never use n00b..

My original post was not meant to be sexist nor was it meant to stir up dissension. It was merely an observation and nothing more. If others see things differently that is fine. I was only reporting my own experiences.

Why in the world is the world "NEWBIE" negitive term Katiahnya ? Newbie is a term for new people in the game and has not hurtful meaning. Infact being a newbie is one of the best times on second life and shouyld be enjoy. You as a mentor should know this by now. Newbiehood is a time in ones life that is special. NEW PERSON travis??????? Ohboy

Sorry susie if i was one who ever did that,i wouldn't do that to anyone i usally stand and listen to the female or male mentor to learn myself,so if i ever need to answer a newbie if they ask the same question,and as a male mentor i've been interupeted by a male mentor when i've tried to answer a newbie's question so it doesn't happen to the females alone.

Wildfire, you are one of the most polite and helpful people I know. I still remember the first time I met you at the WA. I wasn’t even two months old and just a half blind newbie trying to help other newbies. You allowed me to babble away and hand out my brand new note cards.

It was only when my very limited knowledge base ran dry that you would step in and answer questions. I think that any newbie who gets you as a mentor is lucky.

As a postscript to this thread, I think that Help Island seems to be running rather smoothly with the various volunteers all pitching in to help where needed. If anyone is stepping on another’s toes, it isn’t obvious.

Jen

Surely, I'll do my best to explain my point-of-view:

Perhaps I am jaded by the older connotation of the term "newbie", which back in the days of BBS's as well as before the online game boom, referred to a clueless computer neophyte with no technical proficiency and/or a person who lacks in netiquette skill. Usually the person who did the newbie calling was a l33t teenager trying to act condescending to compensate for a self-esteem issue that sprang from when some bully buried their G.I. Joes underneath the sand in the school playground. Nowadays, the l33t crew have evolved it into "n00b", and as Torley pointed out- usually follows with the orders to STFU or to let them know that they suck. Even though "newbie" isn't the same word as "n00b", it still carries with it a history of consdescending elitism, as well as an association to a current insult that could easily be misconstrued.

Even if you're a person that has no idea what "newbie" refers to, the structure of the word itself in having an "ie" suffix can accidentally imply immaturity (ie. kiddie, or in childhood nicknames like Ralphie, etc.), or in a dimunitive light (wharfie, fattie, etc.).

When dealing with new residents, I don't want to accidentally implant the false idea that I am being condescending to them in the least. While you are correct- that most people don't take offense to being called a newbie- I know those that do. While I'm acting as a first impression point for many new residents of Second Life, why would I want to take an un-needed risk?

Maybe if you're an Anglo-Saxon but not if you're Japanese. In that case my name may be a lot easier to remember. Isn't McLuhan from Ireland, Scotland or Wales? Which makes it Celtic and not Anglo-Saxon?

Actually, I answered a call for mentors just the other day. There were quite a few mentors when I got there and a huge influx of newbies.
I wandered around a bit with my tag on and asked if anyone needed help or had a question.

There was a mentor there, who was very helpful and informative, but trying to help EVERYONE. I did let them know in chat that I had this one taken care of, and they politely apologized...which really wasn't what I was looking for. I didn't say it angrily, just politely, but in the future, I'll make it an IM. (see? I learned something here too! - I'm soooo teachable. *grins*)

I think we all try to help and I'm glad there are so many of us...and this may have been said, but bears repeating...

It can be overwhelming to a new member to have more than one person answering their questions, also hard to follow the conversation in a busy area like the WA or Waterhead or even Help Island. I think that's the main reason for not interjecting, if you have a tip, IM the mentor who is already helping the newbie. It's just easier on the newbie who may be trying desperately to keep up with all the words running by on their screen.

(I also would never call a newbie a newbie when I'm helping. not EVER)