Mentors Please

I hesitate to even post this but I will. Why do male Mentors feel free to interupt a female Mentor when they see her helping a new male citizen on Help Island or at the Welcome Area? This is not something new but has been going on for a long time.

I understand the male ego thing but I don't really understand why they feel free to take over what I am doing. This has happened over and over again and of course the male newbie immediately pays attention to the male Mentor instead of me.

I guess, being a female, I am stupid by nature, but all I am asking is that the male Mentors be aware of what they are doing before they offer help.

I suppose I should be wearing a Godzilla av or something.

I dunno, never happened to me really.

Maybe because you aren't a blonde?

You must have been hanging with some rude immature dweebs Susie as you aren't a doormat or a pushover in the least.....

I have had this happen to me and I can be intimidating in person (for a girl).

I have also had similar behavior from men in the forums. People who think gender equality is already here are just not paying attention.

Thank you for bringing this up Susie, it (still) needs to be said once in a while.

bah.... just tell them, "pee on my parade and you'll drown"

This is a good reminder for all Mentors, regardless of gender. All of us are helpful by nature and frequently we all want to pitch in and help and the newbie is usually the focus. I think usually when this happens it is just a harmless addition to what is being said and not meant as a take over. The one helping originally can take it the wrong way and instead of continuing to help, just bow out.

I have not been hanging around Help Island much and there is probably more to it than I think, so be sure to let people who interrupt you know how you feel. I get interrupted frequently myself but I always try to at least finish what I was talking about. I have also found that I can be somewhat intimidating looking for new people and often just get ignored. I never take it personally, there are always others who need and want my help.

Fact is, I've been hanging out at Help Island much more than the WA, just 'cause the WA lags me to death.

Most newbies who happen around there are more receptive to just hanging around and asking us questions and stuff. It's a really nice atmosphere in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly what happens to you, Susie, and I'm not entirely sure what situations you find yourself in -- personally I'm just happy to have the help if someone else chimes in. It really hasn't crossed my mind as to whether it's a man or a woman. Any added information is welcome unless it's incorrect, ya?

If someone else decides to help I usually just keep talking and answering their questions. I know some Mentors feel rather territorial about their newbies ... maybe it's just me; I just feel like, "If they're being helped, they're being helped." That's the ultimate goal.

I agree with Lo. We have to remember the medium, in which we are trying to communicate and its limitations. I had a recent incident when I showed up to answer a Greeter's request.

When I arrived a, I saw mentor was already helping the newbie. I landed nearby and just stood there so the newbie would see me. Within a minute or so I added my two cents to an answer made by the mentor to the newbie’s question.

The mentor IMed me and basically told me to back off and wait until she was through. She felt like I was trying to take over. I was a little hurt. That never was my intention.

I can only speak for myself, however, my face and name are the first the newbie see as he/she enters in to the world of SL. If my greeter button is activated they see my picture and name before being born.

I have had too many newbies tell me that their Greeter didn’t show. My name is a common Anglo-Saxon name and easy to remember. I would not want the newbie to later meet me in-game and remember me as the Greeter who didn’t show.

I am not interested in yanking “MY newbie” from you. I rather you teach them the basics. If you don’t I will have to. Besides, I will have plenty of time to work with him/her.

Unless the person totally lacks social grace or implies that her/she doesn’t care for SL, I will offer friendship. I follow the newbie for weeks afterward, occasionally IMing to see how things are going. They in turn, will often IM me with questions that come up while in-game.

I think it is natural for a newbie to be more comfortable with his/her own gender. I feel a greater affiliation with female newbies. My partner, who is also a Greeter, and I will sometime team up. He handles the males and I the females.

Lastly, if a mentor or another greeter thinks doesn’t like something I am doing, I ask that they do as the mentor did. IM me and let’s discuss it upstairs. We are all there to help the new residents and we should give them a united front. I might get my feeling hurt, but I will get over it.



Jen

I only mind when someone types an answer and gets it out while I'm still finishing the sentence If I interrupt someone else by mistake, as happened recently when I didn't see or hear the other Mentor, please let me know by IM not chat. It looks bad if we appear to be angry at each other.

I agree with all these comments abot intterupting and how it can happen unintentionaly etc. and if people were a little more polite a lot of that wouldnt happen, but I still agree with Susie in that I have seen the "let me take over I'm a man" stuff happen too.

I've also had newbies tell me things like "that's okay lady, I don't need any help" and then walk right over to the nearest (apparently young and male) player and start asking them the same questions. I've got similar could shoulders at times when I have something in my profile that marks me as obviously gay. It happens all the time in RL I don't know why anyone would be surprised that it happens here or deny that it does.

Some (apparently young and male) newbies just don't seem interested in learning about the "cool new game" they found from a female, especiallly from an older female, and a lot of that seems to revolve around whether you are percieved as "available" or not. I find a lot of these same newbies cluster around what they see as a "hot chick" almost regardless of whether they need help or not.

By no means does this happen all the time and most people are decent etc., but it does happen as far as I can see. People can be complete asses of course. That's why they need our help.

It could be just a few specific individuals.

It might be that they type in a lower pitch and therefore deserve to dominate the chat.

Men do this all the time when speaking in real life. Females are interrupted by males as if the females are five year olds. Dumb five year olds.

It could also be, in some cases at least, that they are just trying to answer the questions they heard. There are certainly times, especially in scenes with a lot of chat, when it is hard to make head or tails of what the conversational threads are, and one just pipes up with the most logical response one can make to whatever you can make sense of at the moment.

I wager your cute and short avatar increases the sexist and sizist behavioral tendencies, though. You might want to try making a maximum height version of your AV and try that for a while and see if that makes a difference in your perception of how people react. you could also experiment with a less attractive AV wearing pants and uncute clothing and see if that changes behavior.

ahem, if I may be permitted to interrupt;

that should read SOME men. I would not dream of doing so.

Hmmm haven't seen it happen, hope I don't do it

They let anyone into the Mentors group now adays tho..

Thanks Suezanne but that wouldn't just be me. I deal with this in First Life so why not in Second Life I guess.

Oh yeah ... I can totally relate to it in real life (probably has much to do with the fact that I look like I'm 16 years old). It just hasn't happened to me in SL.

I left out something I have been meaning to get back to and say since I posted this.

All the men who say they don't actually do. Every single one of them.

Thanks for reminding to say that, Cliffy.

This is not a snotty comment, I have sincerely been wanting to get back to add that for hours before reading your post.

All men do?!?!? cmooon u all are breaking my heart !!! this post is actually good to discuss but what i wanna see is you ladies and gntlemen respect each other..

And yes i see sometimes us men do that but please dont say all, i respect each and every single persons opinion/chat/conversation etc, i bet some others aswell do like me, think like me.

I don't want any mentor or voluntees to have fight. it's not a nice view for us, for new residents and for Linden. and please just let this post end here

I've seen this happen too but not so sure it's a male/female thing. I'm a new mentor and had a more experienced mentor chastise me because a newbie IMed him saying I'd gone too fast for her. I'd IMed her the answer to her question assuming she'd just reread the instructions if need be. He said I'd been going too fast and when I explained to him that she could reread the instructions he went on to call me argumentative! Instead of arguing with him I told him he was absolutely right and I walked away. He later IMed me, almost apologetically explaing his "passion" for helping which, to me, is no excuse for being rude and insulting. Granted I was new and could have possibly used a bit of guidance but not in this manner. I steered clear of HI if he was there until today. I went and there was a newbie being helped by another mentor. They seemed to be doing fine till this same gentleman went over and basically told the other mentor what she was doing was wrong! I could not believe my eyes! At least I now know that this initial attack was not against me personally but this mentor feels the need to tell everyone how to do everything. I think that SOME more experienced mentors need to remember that they should be nice and helpful to EVERYONE not just newbies.

We all assess the abilities and skills of the people (newbies and volunteers) that we come into contact differently. (Sometimes we are in error)

We all have our own methods of teaching and passing on knowledge (and sometimes they don't work right).

We all have our own ideas about what does and does not need to be taught (and these ideas do not always hold true)

We're all keen to see people helped. We all believe in what we are doing. But we're all also competent, intelligent adults. I expect you all to think about what you do, and how you have done it, and strive to improve. I'm not commanding it. I simply expect that that is what will happen in the natural course of things: We do stuff. We make mistakes. We find ways to do better.

We watch each-other, and we can learn from the successes and errors of each-other.

I'm not at all keen to see volunteers criticised for spending their time trying to help. Even if they don't do it all that well to begin with, or have an off day. That sends the wrong message.

If you think you can do better than you are, then ask someone you think is better for help, or advice, or just watch them doing their thing. I watch you people. Not to complain or criticise or find fault. I watch you to find ways to do better that I haven't thought of yet. Or just fresh ways. There's such a thing as overpolish.

We can all stand to learn a thing or two from each-other, and not the least of it is how to work together, and get along - even if we might not like the person or the methods so much.

That sometimes means leaving someone to make their own mistakes so they can learn from them. If another volunteer wants advice, they'll ask, peculiar as that might sound.

I am a SL Mentor and male. Anytime I see a new person, or any one else talking with another mentor I do not interupt. I am there to help people and enjoying doing it. If someone else is helping that is great and frees me up to help others who do not have anyone to talk to. It may be a male thing I am not sure, but I am the same way in rl as I am in SL, manners takes first place. Maybe I am old fashion in some ways, like wanting to hold open doors for ladies, ask to help carry packages when I see their arms full, etc, but I also respect women because they are just as important in life as I am. I would never do this in either sl or rl. Hope this doesn't continue because it makes males look bad so I hope they stop. We are humans first....let's treat everyone like that and with the respect they deserve.

George Flan

And on what empirical evidence are you basing this assertion?

Gender-bashing like this is a generalization and can be counter-productive. SuezanneC, I am surprised and disappointed by those comments.

I can honestly say that this has never happened to me. And I think this thread is pretty inappropriate too.

If you have a problem with someone's behaviour then stand up for yourself and say so, to the person concerned and at the time that the behaviour is actually happening. I would be surprised if 9/10 mentors didn't immediately apologise and stop.

I really don't think generalising and whingeing about it here is appropriate, honestly. What can you hope to achieve? If as you assert, all the people who have claimed not to be doing this, are doing it, then obviously they aren't aware of it when they are doing it. Or they're lying. Or you are. But I prefer the former explanation.

If they aren't aware of it, then it is possible that this thread may make them think twice. But really I don't think so. It is far better to bring it up at the time it is happening, so that you have concrete examples, and so you don't offend all the other mentors who don't do this.
BWs
Cali

I really hope I don't, and I'm not even sure I've even met you in world, at least not in a mentoring capacity.

I do very little mentoring now adays as it is, and spend very little time in the Welcome Area or Help Island and spend most of my time in world in LiveHelp.. Where we usually have a, whoever says hello in the IM first, is the one who takes over the question until they ask for help, type of system.. Obviously if I say hello and then get asked a question about scripting or if I can reboot a sim, I'll need a little assistance

I think you're generalising quite substationally and doubt you've met everyone in this thread who has said they haven't.

I've had it done to me once or twice when I was in world a lot more, and I doubt, if its happened to you, its just confined to female mentors. I think I just dropped out and let them take over, if they think they can do a better job of it, then let them try

I am a teacher in RL. I know that there are at least four different learning styles and probably several variations of those. We all learn differently. Unless trained to do otherwise, we also tend to teach in the way in which we learn. If we do so, we will effectively only teach 25% of our students. The other 75% learn differently from the way we do and won’t benefit as well as the 25% who are like us. However, that doesn’t mean the student isn’t learning. It just means that the teacher isn’t as effective as he or she could be.

Don’t assume that someone teaching differently than you would isn’t getting the point across to the newbie. If the series of questions seem to be progressing forward, meaning the newbie doesn’t keep asking the same question, the instructor is probably getting the information across, in a manner that is understood.

Second Life’s environment limits us in teaching methods. However, all of us who volunteer at Help Island and WA somehow stumbled through the learning process and made it. So will most of the newbies coming through HI.

Jen