Incubator Program

Bear in mind that when Strife talks about large projects, he means: games.


The issue is that games that are much more complicated than chess or destruction derby just do not work in SecondLife at this time. You can put in as much money as you like, but at the end of the day you'd be better off putting that money into an external development directly in C++. SecondLife lets you do some very cool things very easily, but as you try to go much beyond that it becomes exponentially harder, or certainly hard.


Compare DarkLife 1 and BattleOn , a simple Flash RPG on the web (http://battleon.com). Whilst DarkLife 1 had around 4-10 concurrent players, BattleOn gets over four thousand playes, all at the same time.


That the game teams split up in SecondLife is often a direct consequence of the unacknowledged failure of the project from more fundamental reasons. Who wants to admit that the project was actually a failure? Some members will leave feeling that "if we'd only added X it would have all worked", but the reality could be that the project was fundamentally flawed from its conception?


Azelda

I'm not sure if failure to get resources (be it land or money) for a project is the failing of the group (and the individuals that make up the group) or the project. Should conception include logistics? How do you evaluate the effectiveness of the acquisition of resources without trying to acquire them? Should the difficulty in acquiring resources be a make or break factor for a concept?

The ultimate answer is that the difficulty in acquiring resources makes or breaks a project.

I think it's a failing of the group not the concept. It's a failure in execution. Lack of market awareness (read as: Lack-of-market awareness). You can't expect to sell Halloween costumes in Febuary. The people who dream up the consepts shouldn't be running the group. Can't tell the prims from the trees most times.

(deleted)

Wait. This gives me an idea.

Would anyone be interested in a retract-your-post-cum-escort service in SL? It could be combined with a club and private rooms!

Investors?

Ok, I have read almost all of the posts here and I am by far not the one to be involved in some huge project, all I do is work everyday on the island that I paid almost a thousand dollars for, pay $195. per month and I pay $150 a month for the radio server.

I am by far not rich in fact I really can't believe that I spend so much on this game, however it's my hobby that I choose to spend my hobby money on which by the way is only half of what I do spend.

I do not build, nor make clothes, Script or do anims, I never claimed to be able to do anything like that, however I do enjoy making people have fun while they are in SL.

When I started Phantasie Isle in Magenta in Feb. It was small parcels of land I bought from people. Which finally got to be about a little over 1/2 of the sim, all I wanted to do was make a really cool beach for people to come and enjoy, never did I expect one day to buy an island, however it became that when I was paying out as much for a entire sim for only 1/2 of one and only had half the prims.

So there went the process of buying an island, because everyone loved Phantasie Isle so much I figured well maybe the dwell incentives will help offset the other half of my hobby money which I should not be spending. So here I am a simple person just out to make people enjoy the island and have fun, we spend hours upon hours on the beach entertaining people who come just to make them want to stay. No we do not have Escorts or dancers, but DJ's and people who love to chat there waiting to entertain.

We are not among the dwell how you say it hogs...? that cheat, no we do not cheat the dwell system, we spend tons of waking hours there doing events and making people happy and give 20 landless people places to live nice bungalows, yes the rent we make from the venders and the bungalow rent goes towards the DJ's pay and the bigger prize money which everyone seems to be paying out so in order to keep up we do the same, we have a big payroll on building as well since I never claimed to be a builder.

So you see taking away the DI will force me to have to close Phantasie Isle because without the DI to help me pay for it I can't afford it.

Please don't get me wrong I believe your ideas are wonderful for the big developers, but please don't take away from us that are not big and that are just trying to keep afloat, while we have our fun in SL.

Also for the person I don't remember who said well "we merchants do not get dwell because all they do is come and buy then leave" well what I have to say to that is at least you are talented enough to make something that you can sell without acually having to entertain and pay people to be there, you acually are making money so please don't complain about not getting dwell.

Anyway thank you LL for the support you have been giving us, I truelly hope that you do not take away the DI for us little people and just add your new ideas to the program.

Best Regards:
Feliciaa Feaver

That was me. I am not complaining that I don't receive dwell bonuses. I am not in the business of making a dwell-friendly area. I sell products.

All I was saying was that I believe if there are going to be developer incentive programs out there (be it dwell, large scale project incentives, etc) that there should maybe be something similar for the small "mom & pop" shop. I would like to see options.

In other words, when you first come into SL you need to find a niche. If there are dwell incentives, and large scale project incentives, and nothing else...I would think a lot of new players are going to want to build dwell-friendly areas or participate in a large project, rather than open up a small shop selling quality goods. And I would hate for SL to turn into a place where most of the areas are clubs, casinos, and themed large scale areas, with very few small shops around.

I'm not knocking clubs, casinos, and themed areas. I enjoy them just as much as the next guy (Neverland is amazing, and Spittoine is loads of fun ) I just want variety, and incentives for all types of active players is a good thing, IMHO. Don't take away the current incentives. Just add more.

Sorry Driftwood, This is true too what you say,

So yeah what he said
Feliciaa

Oh and come to Phantasie Isle sometime and visit.

I don't think this can be said enough times... people shouldn't be looking to LL for awards or incentives to make their projects profitable or sustainable. I know a lot of people do depend on the DI program to offset their costs, but if your place is popular enough to be qualifying for a DI award in the first place then if you can't can't convert that popularity into income to offset your costs without depending on DI you really have no one to blame but yourself. I'm not trying to get on anyone's case so I'm just using this as an example... Phantasie Isle... why not charge a membership? Why not charge an admission price for parties and events? Why give out vendor space for free? It's wonderful that people want to be altruists but running a large scale project in SL is expensive. If people enjoy your project they'll be willing to pay for that enjoyment. We don't really need LL to change its programs in order for projects to be sustainable... we need to change the culture of SL so that people aren't shy about charging for things and people are used to the idea of paying ala carte for what they enjoy. The onus needs to be on us for that, not LL.

Just curious Feliciaa, but under the current system what makes you better than all but 44 others in the whole SL world this month (if your one of the top 2%) to be given that support, based on nothing but one variable number brought about by a secret formula? Its a flawed system and something has to replace it. It doesn't make sense that LL would support the status quo with massive "incentives" to people who already have built successful enterprises and don't need it. To me all this does is stifle alternate compitition by giving them significant advantages that others have no chance to recieve. On the other hand, if DI is really the only thing that supports you, then I have to ask whether or not you should be supported.

*sighs*

Well all I wanted to do was make a place for the people who do not have money to go and have some fun and enjoy SL too. We do now charge rent for venders and for the 18 Bungalows we rent out to the landless in SL. That helps offset the prizes and DJ's. I am the one that gives the events so I can't pay my self. However if I had known that they were going to do away with the DI program I would have never subjected myself to pay so much. And go on the limb and buy an island.

So yes I am to blame for making fun in SL and having to pay for it. *Sighs*

I do not hang out and reqruit newbies at the welcome center however they do need a place to go for fun that doesn't cost them anything. This is what PI provides, a place for enjoyment and a chance to win some Lindens till they find their niche in SL.

Once again I say I do not know how to make anything, script or build so it is impossible for me to make anymore then I do now, yes this is my un talented self, all I know how to do is try to make it enjoyable for people, with or without money. I DJ and entertain and provide a place in SL. Which I must say will have to be sold if the DI program is taken away. Yes maybe this is my own fault for not having talent. Sad but true. I love it so much and would hate to see it go.

I might as well go back to living at the SL park like I did before Founding PI. Because I can not go on without the DI program that was there when I bought the island, I don't know what ever possessed me to do it since all I am good for is.... well I guess nothing.

All of the people I have come to know in SL, friends and family do not visit PI often, because they are busy with their own niche in SL. Most of the people who visit are new or residents. So charging a membership would be useless noone could pay it. Guess PI isn't as good as it seems. Hell I don't know I just don't understand with all the new investers that LL got. Why can't they just add to the programs instead of taking it away.

I guess it's us who pays for the dwell cheaters out there. Once again *Sighs*

Best Regards
Feliciaa Feaver

P.S. ( I give up) I'm tired and cranky from spending all my time entertaining people and getting nothing in return not even old friends to come and visit me. I have maybe 20 old friends that came here from vzones that I knew and I hardly ever see anyone but new people. Do they care about me and how i'm doing prolly not. But I do care and thats my problem. W/O PI I am totally useless here in SL.

wow, now i feel bad Feliciaa! you have mad skillz! Hosting is a skill and should be rewarded, but not at the exclusion of everyone else.

I'm sorry I wasn't trying to make you feel bad, I don't want to take away from anyone, my heart is to big for that. I want everyone to succeed, i'm just tired and noone seems to care. I know I should have never got myself into this island with only the DI system and my only play money a month at stake. Guess I never thought of loseing it, and all I was thinking about was the people who do come to PI and love it so much. LOL ok i'm too sensitive for this stuff i'm crying gawd. Takes deep breath, haha ok I needa stay outta all you guys forum business. If you can't play with the big guys then don't play at all is what i'm seeing. IMHO

Bestest Hugzz n stuff
Fel

Awww Fel, I didn't mean it that way. My point is that if you're already making the DI list then you've obviously created a place that people love to go and it seems to me there must be some way for you to capitalize on that without having to give up on it. I've no doubt that all the people who contribute to your dwell would be very disappointed if you closed up shop. My problem with LL's incentive programs and awards is that in a way they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. No matter what they do, any given award will only apply to a subset of the population, and invariably people scream "what about me?!" I think that's a bad frame of mind and something we need to ween ourselves from, because in the long run if we can't move ourselves to a self-sustaining economy that can support private sim projects without LL intervention then the longevity of SL itself will be queastionable. I'm personally not in favor of them doing away with the dwell based DI because it's a very fair and objective measurement. It takes so much dwell to reach that list that I refuse to believe that people gaming the system with alts has any appreciable affect at all. Keep on doing what you're doing and hopefully having fun doing it! Maybe as an experiment the next time you're having a DJ'd party, try charging an admission of $1. With as many visitors as you get I imagine that would add up pretty fast. I just think it's a good idea to start thinking of ways you can leverage the success you've already achieved so that people can go on enjoying phantasie isle for months or years to come no matter what becomes of the incentive and awards programs

Felicia,
PI is beautiful, great job. Do not feel bad about not having the typical SL skills. I have none myself. My niche seems to be like yours, we are able to match up the builders and scripters creations with an audience. Though I am just at the bottom of the list ($25 USD) because I do not host events. We are willing to take a huge RL financial risk, to help achieve our SL goals. There is no shame in it, I also underestimate my value. I know at least 5 of the private islands that will be gone when they announce the end of the DA. I felt like you do as far as the timing of this proposal, why the hell did I even bother getting an island. The whole thing really got to me last week, with even thoughts of selling all my land (2 sim tier) and just going gypsy.

I beleive alot of the people who adimately oppose the current system feel slighted because they are not getting formal recognition from LL. Instead of pushing to do away with the dwell based awards, lets all push for more, creativity based awards in addition to the one in place. LL did just get 8 MILLION dollars, surely a few thousand invested into community development would not be too much to ask.

I dont like the plan at all. Why cant they just divide up the dwell between 3 main groups that affect the dwell;

The owner 1/3
The builder 1/3
The scriptor 1/3

Simple is sometimes best.

Catherine,

The reason it can't be split up that way is very much like a business. The Owner pays the Scriptors, the Builders, the DJ's, the Radio Server, the Staff, and don't forget funding the Events with Prize Money that you have to match with your competition very much like a real company.

There are expenses that are beyond the Builders & Scriptors that would be like saying hell split it with everyone equally.... Who pays the expenses?

I have been a successfull real life business owner for 19 years, and i'm here to tell you that with all the new funding LL is recieving IMO it would be a bad business move to take away anything that has been motivating people to get dwell, that promotes more game play and more refferals. And in no way disrupt the system for the dwell incentives.

But simply to add to it incentives for shop owners, mom and pop establishments etc. etc. etc. That way everyone benefits.

ADDING TO IT, NOT TAKING AWAY!!!!

My new motto lol hugzzzz
Fel

Why should a bulder/scripter get 1/3 of the reward? you dont think places are popular justbecause? 90% of the time it is popular because thier is a host.

I totally agree with you Fel, and if they take away the DI I will be closing down all 3 of my islands, and most likely leaving SL.

My new motto lol hugzzzz

OH and I forgot to mention the LAND TIER in the expenses!!!

My new Motto lol Hugzzzz
Fel

I actually agree with this more than I can say. I was one of the few in TSO to start charging admittance to my club. It was towards the end, so I cannot say exactly how it would have panned out in the long run. I offered discounts to friends, and they paid but thought I was crazy charging friends. I tried to explain that it was the dynamics. That it was the way the world was intended and that it would be the way to break the "popularity" and "cheat" aspects of the game. If you want a members only location, if you want to make sure you have quality over quanity, if you offer something amazing, if you offer something unique. People *will* pay for it.

To me the incubator program offers an opportunity for the artists of SL to really step up and show some things. Not always something that should stay around forever, but it does give the leg up to those who may not be so business wise, but do have something to offer the community. It also helps those who would offer brilliant content to the SL world, but their RL pocketbooks just do not allow it.

My personal opinion would be to leave dwell awards in place for the current private islands and pre-bought mainland sims projects. As well as projects that take up a certain amount of mainland sims even if it was not a Pre-bought sim. Or heck just leave the dwell bonuses in as they stand but add this as well. To me, adding options is always a great way to go. Who is to say that just because a project gets funding from LL, that it will be better than a privately funded project? I don't think that will always be the case.

Lot's of insights in this thread.

I would expect LL is NOT going to abandon those courageous folks who have made considerable and ongoing investments in Island Sims and other large land based efforts. We've talked of trust, and it would make no sense for LL to abandon the very people who trusted them in these early days of SL and have contributed such amazing content and given our world such depth with its varied landscape of creativity.

As LL (if LL) shifts the business model to include other, non-land based development models, I'm betting they will continue to be "backward compatible" and won't do anything that radically changes the way they've done business up to now.

In addition to my thoughts above, I think I am going to stand by this motto.


PS: Feliciaa! Turn your PMs on in the forums.

Troll doll

*edit this post about how dwell should be divided was in responce to Robins Post not a general opinion on the dwell system.


But but but what about those who created those massive builds or those that created all that code?

I dont think that the builders/creators or the scriptors get the credit they deserve. By not giving them any credit that in affect does away with any builder or scriptor building anything without a price tag attached. Unfortunatly projects of great substance rely on the generousity of builders and scriptors. I am having trouble understanding how that would be balanced or fair to everyone involved.

thanks

Cat

P.S. Sure the club/island/lot owner does do a lot to keep the patrons happy. But! Who do those ppl rate? They more often than not rate the owner 3 pos not caring who built the excellent builiding or who scirpted the fantastic lights/code.

Take a look at the leader boards most of the ppl who are rated best builders havent built anything LOL.

In response to your post about the builder/scriptor credit, I don't know about anyone else however my builders and scriptors live on Phantasie Isle and is credited each and every day when people come to the island, I ALWAYS give credit where credits due.

Everyone who knows me and listens to my show on the air knows that I talk about the people who build and create stuff on the island all the time. All they have to do is click on anything and see who made it even when it's in my name. By getting the people there it subjects their builds to the public and they do get rated all the time.

I understand how some do not, but really if I see an awesome build I do not look at the owner and say OOO you did all this and did a great job, I click on the build to see the creator and tell them what a great job they did.

I totally agree tho on the rating thing because look at my profile tons build rates, and lol I don't build. They do need to do something about that.

I just wanted to set the record straight that I do credit the builders and code makers for everything in fact I say it on the air alot.

Always give credit where credits due.....

Fel

PS...In this world and any world it is totally impossible to balance it out you just have to do the best you can, for the greater good, the Owners of all these big places really do need to give more credit to their People.