Incubator Program

We're considering a new program, taking our cue from game studios and venture capital, which would offer support from Linden Lab for Second Life Residents bootstrapping large projects in Second Life. Please take a look at the following first draft, and let us know what you think.

The goal of this plan is to incent large-scale projects in Second Life, and to reward innovative use of the various tools in the system. Ideally this plan will replace the current US$ cash Developer Incentive Awards. Traffic awards (dwell paid in L$) will continue to be paid nightly, recognizing the value of popular places and well-attended events in SL.

Application Process
Interested project leaders and entrepreneurs would submit a project plan, using a web-based application form.

The application form would gather information about
1. the team - who's involved and what their roles will be
2. project goals
3. a detailed project description, including anticipated audience, key elements of experience, innovations required, anticipated revenue, duration of experience (permanent? short-term?), any caveats (e.g. specific timing requirement)
4. project milestones and dates (up to 3 months for development time)
5. estimated resource needs and cost (land, L$ for texture uploads, specially skilled labor, additional resource support from LL, e.g. Shoutcast server bandwidth)
6. estimated time needed to repay initial loan

The application would be evaluated by Linden Lab for
1. creativity
2. uniqueness of offering (e.g. new experience in SL)
3. sustainability
4. strength of team (prior experience, proven skill, commitment to SL, previous successes)

Project Management
Each project chosen will be assigned a Linden project manager who will provide the resources requested within the approved plan and support the team in completing the project.

Funding Process
Awards occur at 3 levels
1. Linden currency and/or land loaned as part of the project funding
2. Individual awards for innovation in scripting, interactivity, avatar design, and so on (non-place based awards)
3. A final team award in US$ based on first 3 months traffic to the site. Any L$ earned as a result of dwell, admission fees, or sales are yours to keep, after repaying the original L$ within the time agreed.

YAY! No more dwelloper! Thank you linden labs, and this is also a great oppertunity for large scale projects (cough Tartarus cough) to start up and bring action oriented players into second life (cough cough)

The overall design seems pretty good, but im never one for pointing out details in writing. Can we get hank in here?

I dunno about this.

I immedeately thought of questions like "How does one pay off a loan of land? Using the L$ land tier payment chart? At L$1 per m2?"

But then I realized that this is replacing a system that rewards completed projects with high sustainability with a system that puts new projects into debt. They don't really seem compatable to me.

So lets say I depend on the Developer Awards to pay my land tier (which I do) and that I'm running free apartments for new, landless players (which I am) and at the same time developing small, interactive builds that are fun to spend a few minutes messing with (which I try to do). The Developer Awards are a small and continuing influx to balance what is otherwize a non-commercial enterprise. Without them, I have to start charging for everything to make ends meet (or nearly meet, I still take a loss even now). I don't really want the pressures of marketing, sales, and customer support. Some people do, but I don't. I'm a designer, a builder, a coder, a entertainer (when I can). Of course, this is just me.

Now to take advantage of this proposed program, I would have to create something new. I can do that... I'm always coming up with new things. So I submit a proposal and get... What? Linden dollars to fund the project and outsource some of the work? Enough land to support the project, tier free for a period of time? But when that time is up, I have to pay it all back? So the project has to be a commercial one, one designed to make money (that is, take money away from other players) so that the loans can be payed back. AND it has to be one that makes enough money to pay back all of the loan.

I'm just not liking this whole "loan" thing. If I want to take a risk, I'll buy the L$ on GOM and buy and island or pay contracters to make stuff and see what happens. This plan looks like a way to entice people to do just that, by tossing in the world "free" here and there and "contractual repayment requirements" in small print at the bottom of the page.

Something like the Neverland would need a loan of US$4800 for three sims for three months alone. That's 1.2 million Linden dollars (currently, on GOM). How many pirate swords and indian peace pipes would they have to sell to make that back?

I guess I don't want to say this is a BAD idea... I just need a LOT more information before I would feel this was fiscally viable... To ME. (I can only speak for myself here, after all.)

I'm always glad to see new ideas. I'm always glad to put my two cents in about them.

A few questions about this program.
Question 1. Would the team be able to make a profit AFTER the loan is paid off?

Question 2. Would the loan just cover the initial costs, or could/would you also pay for the monthly as well?

Question 3.How long will you support a project? As long as we are alive, or only for a few months?

I think it's fantastic!!!!! I have several ideas already that I've been kicking around for months that I would love to apply to this for a chance to implement them.

Well worth the risk I'd say

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Tiger -- I'm going to spend more time with your post, and make sure that we think about ways to address the issues you're bringing up.

Ryen -- in answer to your questions, following is my current thinking:

1. yes you can make a profit after the loan is paid off
2. we would agree on the loan value up front, depending on what you need, what other projects we're looking at, and the available budget
3. The goal is to get the project going. We'll agree as part of the funding plan what that will take and how long.

Thank you, Linden Lab, for allowing me to consider your idea of offering me an invitation to meet your bureaucratic procedural requirements, take a financial risk, and work for up to three months in order to provide your company with cost-free site content, in exchange for the potential of earning some play money that is worth less by the day, the opportunity to have pictures of my build included with your press kit, and countless positive ratings paid for by . . . fellow members. I'd love to take you up on this offer, and by the way, if'n I give you my pet bullfrog, a yo-yo with a broken string, and this Mason jar full of marbles, will ya let me whitewash your fence?

</sarcasm>

I am curious as to what will happen if a project doesn't earn enough to cover the loan. What if the reason the project isn't profitable is due to, say, teleporters being down most of a day or the dwell-wipe bug?

I am also curious as to the size of the team award. In my experience, when I or my friends have had great ideas, other members have been happy to provide land, other resources, and their own skills in order to bring them to fruition. In other words, I figure I could build anything I wanted to around here without any bureaucratic hassle. What stops me from doing something on a grand scale is that I can't afford the time. If, however, LL is paying a large enough team award so that my teammates and I can afford to invest the time required to do a large-scale project . . . then I'd like to hear more.

Pardon my ignorance, and no offense to the fine folks at Linden Lab, but what can the Lindens provide with this plan that the SL community cannot?

Loaned land -- rich players that want to see your idea come to fruition.
Shoutcast Servers -- easily rented from other companies
Scripting, building, texturing, etc. -- there's enough of us content creators around to fill up 50 large scale projects.

All this can be had with much less hand-waving and paper signing in-world. Get together 10 of your friends, say "hey, wouldn't it be neat if..." and go and do it.

I'd be stressed and anxious to get any sort of project under this Linden umbrella going... what would happen if the project died mid-way? Do I still have to pay back the nebulous loan? What happens if team members drift away (always happens)? What if I need more resources than I thought I did?

LF

I think the Developer's Incentive program is a good thing, though maybe flawed in some ways. But I don't want to see it simply scrapped. Many projects would never have been done without developer incentives. Many of the issues people have with the current Developer Incentive program concerns abuse of the system, not the system itself.

A Linden run system of approval would skew the world development. I think the Lindens shouldn't be that directly involved with projects at this level. There are many current and up and coming groups and institutions that will be shut out if the Lindens provided these services directly.

Many aspects of SL involve people experimenting, trying things out, succeeding and failing. An application process would short circuit interesting, strange, and successful things that come out of player run groups and projects.

If only Linden-approved projects can obtain developer incentives, then the world will miss out on many small projects attempting to achieve the US$ payout.

This proposal has many similarities with Haney's snow sim proposal and what has now become the Neualtenburg Projekt in that we too have a large sim-scale project with a detailed project plan. Is this new proposal related to Haney's snow-sim effort? If so, are there plans to place our ongoing work under the umbrella of this new initiative?

~Ulrika~

Robin,

It seems to me that this scheme would promote inworld commercial interests, which I would have thought was the very last thing we need at the moment.

I just visited Reitsuki's Amusement Park of Wonders (the sim name I'm sorry that I've forgotten). The genuinely creative create because it pleases them and throwing out bones based on business plans shall likely bring the carpetbaggers.

By way of contrast, this self-built, self-financed amusement park beat the pants off the Lindenworld experiment and doesn't put people on the treadmill of "draw crowds or lose your parcel". There are some things that government does not do well. Inspiring creativity is one of them.

Now if you wanted to post hoc reward people for making wonders, that would be different. Linden Lab has been way too reluctant to make judgement calls and so has concentrated on "objective" measures like dwell. This results in dwell zombies which serve only to waste resources. I fervently recommend that you allow yourselves to make subjective judgements and lavish rewards on people who have already done things. Yeah it's subjective, but sometimes there is cause for that. If I wanted to be judged on quantitative grounds, I'd work in sales (after having my conscience removed).

This is a good idea. THe calls of favoritism would be rampant, but it's tons better than rewarding the top ten clubs every month for gaming the system and herding newbies.

I am going to hold off on any harsh criticism until more details are discussed, but frankly this sounds to me like people that have invested thus far are getting screwed.

First off, why dissolve the DI awards? Those of us who have planned large projects with the intent of getting a little help from the DI awards are now left hanging. Thank you.

When are the DI awards going to end? I hope this is made clear, and we are notified several months in advance.

Anybody who has invested in a private island is getting the shaft also, why should we have paid for them when LL is going to be giving use of them away for free?

I have written a proposal to LL for a 4 sim project, where I offered to pay for the sims and tier fees. I did ask for a slight discount for the initial purchase and tier fees to help get it going, this was rejected because they didn't deem it fair to give one member or group an unfair advantage. Well, seems to me that they just didn't want to give ME an unfair advantage. I know several others whose proposals where dismissed in a similar fashion.

Why is LL going to be giving $L to the same people they are giving free land to? Seems like a new elite class is being nurtured by LL.

I am sorry if I do not seem thrilled at this new proposal. And hope my questioning of it doesn't black list me from participation in it. The overall motivation behind it is understandable, but seems the rest of the users who are not chosen are deemed as tourists and are actually hurt by this. IMO this will further devalue both land and the $L even further and makes private investing in anything in SL very unattractive.

I want to step up once again and state that I'm not against the proposed idea as it stands, I just need more information.

My main concern is the amount of effort I put in to make fun things for people to do. I'm not out to make money, I'm just out to have some fun making things and entertaining people in the process. Before Second Life took over my free time, I made little music videos with puppets and special effects (as can be seen here) which I also did with no intent to make money, just to play with high-tech tools and provide some fun and entertainment for others.

Feedback in the way of the occasional AttaBoy is payment enough for a hobby.

But large projects in Second Life cost money, as they should. They take resources. So making enough from my creations to balance the cost is neccessary. That requires some effort, but not so much as to make the hobby feel like work. (Most of the time.)

I just want my fun/work meter to stay as far on the fun side as possible. It's through fun-colored glasses that I'm looking at this proposal. Those writting it should take that into account. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Second Life is entertainment even if not a game.

I like the idea of moving the develloper incentive away from dwell but I'm not so sure about where it's headed. Large scale group projects are great but what about smaller scale projects and individual projects? Why does the develloper incentive need to be tied to just one type of project?

I've had a project in mind for a while but it would really only take one person to set up and start but it would involve the whole community or at least a large part of the community to actually make it come to life.

Linden-sponsored exposure is generally much greater than can be achieved by other means. It's also good for LL's publicity since they can say "we helped this amazing development team do this".

This is a move that will help some good developers and at the same time should increase SL's publicity without LL having to resort to bona fide advertising... press release announcements generate interest without the cost.


On a related note, the SL Exchange has plans to help people who wish to create and grow new types of businesses within SL with means we will have available to us in the near future. We're quite fanatical about these types of ideas where everyone-wins situations are created. Perhaps we could work with LL as an affiliate of this program?

Merwan should probably chime in on this... I'm sure he has ideas for how it could work.

Heya Robin,

I full heartedly support this concept. It provides a launch point for highly interactive builds of large scaled to occur within SL. As of the current moment, we are primarily limited to our own personal resources when attempting to launch any large scale project. This would provide a perfect mechanism for such projects to occur.

While many may be concerned about the "developer incentive", this primarily has been an abused method of reward in the past. I feel that infact, you would most probably have to leave the current system in place, and use this as to further extend it.

Please, if this concept does come to fruitition, make sure we are all well aware of it (big announcement!), as I and my team would be very pleased to submit a project proposal.

This proposal is a great idea, if it had been implemented before the land tier system and auctions had been implemented. I may be mistaken, but I believe that Second Life currently is the most expensive on line game in the history of the web. People are paying huge amounts of money to create quasi-persistent content.

Some people may be doing this in the hope that it will one day become a way to make a living, but no one is yet making even US minimum wage, if anything. Most large land owners that I have spoken with are doing it for fun, as a hobby. Many people I know despise having to create commercial components to their builds, but do so to pay land tier fees.

These landowners love Second Life. They love creating things for others enjoyment. They build to showcase their skills. They build things they are proud of. And they pay large amounts of money to do so under the current system.

The announcement of the current Linden backed project has been felt as a spear in the sides of many of these landowners. They have created their content using the model that was provided, and now they are being undercut with free content. How can a large land owner justify huge fees when others are receiving even greater resources then could reasonably be supported through in world commerce for free? The even greater slight, some of these people asked for this help for their projects and were denied, with Linden lab citing the inherent unfairness of providing assistance for the requested project over others.

The apparent arbitrary dolling out of assistance must smack of favoritism, and the sudden appearance of this proposal after the fact feels like damage control.

I love the idea of community supported content. Removing the need for commercial support from artistic projects is terrific. Showcases of the capabilities of Second Life are an important part of moving forward and increasing the size of the in game population.

Unfortunately this makes paying for content creation much less appealing. In the long term does Linden Lab really want to make private projects, and therefore private landownership a no win proposition?

If I bought an island in the last couple of months I would be irate.

Ed -

Disclaimer

The account name Editorial Hare is what has been termed an alternate account. It has been created to allow the thoughts of multiple patrons of the program Second Life to be complied and shared as a coherent unit.

It has the further purpose of shielding this group from in world retribution.

We feel that our ideas are in the best interest of the future of Second Life. We have seen many people propose and express thoughts that to us appeared sane, measured, and competent be harassed, some to the point of leaving Second Life. There doesn't appear to be a group that has not used this harassment tactic to bolster their forum opinions inside the game. For this reason we have come to the conclusion “you cannot win”, Someone will always oppose you, and therefore you will be persecuted, no matter how insignificant your opinion or project.

It was felt that with the current forum atmosphere no significant progress could be made by airing our opinions. In the past we have merely held our tongues, and let things progress as they will. But we have now come to the point where we feel significant changes are occurring that threaten to leave Second Life in a state which we feel to be unpalatable.

Our feeling is that a great many people may also feel this way, but have similar privacy concerns which prevent them from airing their ideas. We know many people that have given up reading the forums entirely, including most of our membership at times. We now see that ignoring them is as dangerous to our enjoyment of Second Life as the forums existence in the first place.

As with any group of people in Second Life, our opinions can vary to a great degree. In posting with Editorial Hare we will try to find a level of consensus amongst ourselves.

Also understand that the thoughts expressed here are filtered through one person, the actual poster, and as such unconsciously take the direction of that person. As “The Poster” I will attempt to reign in my personal opinions and provide as unbiased a view as possible for the group.
We have chosen this account to be our mouthpiece. In the interest of coherence this account will posting in a first person style. As we have no intention of providing our group members identities or numbers it makes more sense to post as a single identity, “Ed”.

As an alternate, this account has much less force of reputation than if we were using our “main accounts” to air these opinions. In order to enjoy Second Life we have given up the benefits of our reputation. We feel this to be a worthwhile trade off to be able to express our ideas in peace. “Ed” will have to be sufficient.

Yep.

Not to change the direction of the thread, but FYI there are a few elite who are already making their living fully from profits made in SL. Idealism aside, I applaud these people.

I'd agree with this. As such -- it may discourage "out-there experimentation" in favor of safe ideas that have been proven before. Net result -- homogenization -- sameness of experience. We've already seen some of that in SL. And yet, it's the "out-there experiment" that most often changes everything, develops the killer app, and makes the extreme profit.

I like Robin's proposal. Very much. I hope there are ways to encourage experimentation, minimize risk, and accept some failures in the process.

If this program is implemented in addition to the developer incentive program that currently exists, it could provide some benefit and an alternative way for a group that does not necessarily have the up front financial resources but the pure talent to bring some very creative projects to Second Life. I have always felt this should not be reserved for the wealthy who can afford private islands or large land tier fees. This should not become the sole reward system, but it would be nice to augment what exists now.

It does however have the potential to disenfranchise those players who have paid high land tier fees to develop content for SL, without any help from LL. While it is nice to start a program like this, you have an entire group of established players that this is a direct slap in the face to, and until you address that properly, implementing this would be a mistake.

One additional thing I will add is that the fact that Linden Lab declined proposals with the explanation that it would be unfair to provide something different to one player or a group of players seems quite disingenuous in the face of both this proposal and the newly launched experiment with Spellbound (who I have great respect for, and this is not a criticism of them). Players who wanted to move forward with the rejected projects had to incur the financial burden to do so, and that is a shame, as it is obvious this has been in planning for awhile.

If all players could apply for Linden grants of this type, then it would be fair; but it sounds as though only established cohorts will be able to apply. It is rather hard to get a group together just to apply for a grant when it sounds as though the grants will be rather rare.

Perhaps the Lindens could go with a suvivor kind of thing; have a lottery for the use of some land, such as in Burning Life, and then have folks vote on what should remain or go. That would give shy folks and newbies a better chance, no?