RPG Sims - We need a Review Board

There are a lot of RPG sims in SecondLife nowadays, and finding a suitable one can be a painstaking task when you consider orientation (rules, background), and the time it takes to assess the prevailing culture and social climate. After a couple rounds of this, you will wish you could read some reviews and save yourself some time.

I've not found an RPG Sim Review Board (whether it be a forum, blog, or even an info booth inside SL) but something like it would go a long way in not only educating potential players, but also rewarding good products with praise, and providing criticism where it's due. Regardless of what sim owners might think, their environment is a product which happens to be free, and i believe consumers have the right to be educated, especially when the customer base is a valuable source of contributions to these sims, both in creativity, volunteer work, L$, and quality of player experience.

I've recently had what has so far been the worst experience in fantasy RPG in my life (online or otherwise), and I feel that there should be some accountability for running and propagating a bad environment. I've been a GM and a player for 23 years, and can tell the difference between good management and bad management, good play and bad play. I know there are others out there who can see this too, and desire quality.

So my suggestion is this - I'm willing to my money where my mouth is and host a web forum that rates RPG sims in SecondLife, if there are experienced players and GMs who have provided and sustained good quality gaming and RPing, and would help moderate user input. Moderating work would entail screening non-legitimate posts with the intent to artificially raise or lower the review status of a sim.

The goal would be to take in these user reviews and distill them into ratings averages, while making the reviews available to public inquiry, just like a Chamber of Commerce. This would be something that potential players can use to find a sim they like, avoid those with problems (or join them if they feel constructive), and get a general view of the state of RPG sim development in SecondLife.

Hopefully the tradition of fantasy RP in SecondLife with grow and develop instead of stagnate, and I believe that to do this, we as a community need to raise our awareness of what is really going on out there.

There is no need for this. It is already in place. If the RP is bad, no one comes to their place, they get tired of paying for tier, and close up.

A review board indicates that there are a group of people so all knowing, they are able to judge what someone else's perception is. If those people were so all knowing, they would be smart to pass on and go help the higher powers, not attempt to enforce their perceptions onto other beings.

In short words.. not needed - if you want to do so, go have fun, don't expect it to be enforced by the PTB.

I agree that any sort of rating would be a bad idea.

However I do think a directory would be a good idea. If it included information on Genre, battle systems used, costs, sim-size, player numbers etc. then it could help people to choose one that matches their interests. Even just having the directory could increase player traffic to the ones listed.

Having found the name of one that they might like, there's nothing to stop players asking around to find out what other people think of it, but ratings from a small clique of 'experts' who are likely biased to the systems they're involved in would be a bad idea.

Imagine if one of the Mods was involved in the game you want to slate. They'd probably just veto your submission.

Actually, I'd just like to see the SL games directory make a comeback.

An SL Games directory? That would be awesome...

anyway, here'smy contribution then:

Everwind
-----------
Number of Sims (currently)? 3
TP Sim? Woods
Rules? Yes, please read before entering.
Genre? Fantasy
Combat System? Mixture of RP, and safezone - new weapons must be authorized by owner.
Sexual? No
Nudity allowed? No
Accomodation? Yes, rentable
Shops? Yes, but blended into the sim.
Observers? Welcomed, but please wear an observer tag.
Traffic? ((not logged in right now - sorry, can't check))
Events? Yes, regular.
Owners: Slip Barrett (sp?) and Grace Loudon
Cost: Only what you pay for your AV and weapons.
Player Quality: Mixed



what else would one write into this??

Well, a review kinda like a introduction to the various RP games and sims would be cool. I don't think critical reviews would serve much purpose at this point. Everything is still fledgeling and cottage.

Yes there is. If there wasn't, nobody would write movie reviews, there would be no Chambers of Commerce or Better Business Bureaus, and there would be no critics. Product feedback in a public forum provides an enhanced level of consumer quality control.



You misunderstood the role of the review board staff, or didn't read my entire post - the point of having experienced moderators is only to make sure that the user reviews submitted are not blatant plugs or flames. Aside from that, it functions exactly the same way as Amazon.com's user reviews. Instead of "I read this book and here is what I thought" a person would enter "I played (or play) on this sim and this is what I thought/experienced."

Amazon user reviews provide extra insight on books in terms of how useful, entertaining, accurate, etc. they are, and allow new customers to weigh that into their decision before buying. When I read 5+ reviews on a book at Amazon that all tell a similar story, it is very helpful in making the right purchase.

As the saying goes:
"A clever man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

I think this is a lovely idea. I would suggest combining the directory with the review though, perhaps focusing on the directory (like Amazon would focus on the book or DvD) and allow others to respond. This is probably what you had in mind but I wasn't sure from your initial post.

I came to SL only three weeks ago and so far I've had a doozy of a time finding an RP realm that is a decent fit. Just this evening I was told that I'm not RPing my race "properly" and the other evening I was informed that I'm "not allowed" to RP in a realm I had previously RP'd in.

Moderators are necessary, I agree. Moderators (if I understand you correctly) would be there to prevent comments such as "Sim name) is so f-ing stupid, the losers that run that place are all (insert foul insult here) and should (insert foul suggestion here)" but to otherwise let comments that are constructive (without being "flames" to go through.

I would support this endeavor.

One lesson we learned since 2003 in Second Life is that rating systems were made to be abused. Such a system run by a select few would be used to greif Sims and kill their business.

I don't think the OP means this as a "rating system" (like Karma or other forum popularity contest type deals) but more of a place where people can give honest feedback regarding SIMs they have visited (in this case specifically fantasy RPGs). It would be nice to have a "reader's digest" list to look over instead of spending the first 4 hours of your SL life (after getting geared up) reading rules notecards that are often nearly a copy/paste of each other.

I know some people enter Sims without reading the rules, but I'm not one of them. I've spent so much time reading and so very little time RPing. In several of the sims I've visited (and I donated to all of them if I saw a tip jar) I've had experiences that left a bad taste in my mouth, up to and including verbal abuse from one of the "staff".

Even with my poor experiences I would not write a flame. I might say "I would approach ThisSim with caution and take extra care to follow the rules. Several of the members of the Sim can come across strong willed when defending the Sim and the rules set forth. A thick skin is suggested." But that would be after talking about what I found there, "the sim is beautifully crafted and the layout is clearly well thought out. All sorts of races are welcome from dragon, to fae, to good old human. Activities include (insert list) but a must see is (insert attraction).

Personally I'm more interested in the database or list, but I would love an opportunity to share my experiences so far.

I did read your entire missive, and this paragraph, as well as the title of this thread gives the appearance that you were looking for a controlling board - one that would have the 'power' or 'ability' to shut down what they felt was 'bad' role play.

A review system is one thing, and would be of interest to most, a review board would not. As previously stated, there is already an 'accountability' system build in. No one shows up, owner/GM gets bored and tired of paying tier, leaves or changes to a mall/night club/Panty seller, poor game is gone. No further 'accountability' or 'oversight' is required.

The DCS2 Sim Resource Center has over 40 RPGs with descriptions and landmarks up on the wall. Although these arent reviews cause everyone has their own taste whether its highly restricted VTM, total freeform, or straight Military-like combat. It is the largest SL Games directory currently existing in SL.

Here is the slurl

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Jarang/114/222/379

I think the idea of an RP review site would be awesome. A place where RP sites could post information, and people could provide feedback would be great. I'd support the OP's idea completely.

Ok, I see what your saying. I could have chosen some better words than 'review board'. That was a result of my use of dated 'net language. I call web forums (like PhP Board) "Boards". It was the most common type of online discussion for a while, before blogs became popular. But it can come across as looking like a board of governors - that wasn't what I meant.

I also don't like the idea of some mafia entity forcing anyone to quit based on their personal agenda. However, if a review site serves its function, it can let sim owners to think about how players feel and what they tend to look for, and take that into account if they want to grow their population. That is what I mean by accountability.

Alas, not all RPG sims use DCS, and it would be much easier to read a list on a web page than clicking and downloading notecards from images that often don't even say what genre they are (without reading the notecard first, and even then some of them don't say).

If it was just a directory for finding DCS RPG's, then yes, this is definately the place to go... but I for one would like to see a list of all RPG Sims with a brief description of what they are (genre, active times, size) and what combat meter (if any) they use.

If people are then able to post a reply with feedback on their experiences in those realms, that's just an added bonus.

I do NOT condone (to address someone else's post) a group of people who are permitted to shut down an RP because it doesn't fit with their RP standards. And I don't think the OP said that at all. The "experienced moderators" that were mentioned are not there to say whether an RPG Sim is good or not, they are there simply to prevent people from sharing their experiences in a inflamatory manner "u guyz suxd" is not constructive, nor is it "feedback". The "experienced moderator" would be there to remove such a "review".

To the OP. As soon as you have moderators deciding on what content is constructive and what isn't, you open yourself up to so many more issues. It might be better to have an overall disclaimer that people will post what they wish, and those who abuse the system (multiple posts, constantly flaming) will have their ability to post removed... but other than that leave up the posts. People are, for the most part, intelligent enough to pick out a disgruntled ex-member of a Sim from those with genuine feedback.

I love the idea of a web-based resource for capturing info on what RP sims there are currently in SL and also for providing ratings.

Please keep us updated with progress on your idea.

All of the RP sims in SL (Except Midian City) have been fairly good, had a good time. they all have different qualities, advantages and disadvantages

Don't RP at Midian City, as it is very homophobic, and i got ALOT of shit there, when i complained to the "manager" i was "ejected" and can't TP there any more. and i've been getting prank IM's with homophobic abuse in, i have reported it to LL, but nothing.

Just like a movie reviewer, you have every right to go ahead and start reviewing RP sims. I think it's a great idea and would find it interesting as ONE PERSONS OR GROUPS OPINION. I wouldn't want there to be any kind of "official" rating system however. Definitely wouldn't want the Lindens involved and any other system would be skewed and manipulated as always.

I've been to Midian City and thought it was alright. Didn't do any actual RP there, but went as an observer. Almost RPed there though.

I regular Everwind and consider it my home.
I also RP at Lumindor (started recently)... it's a regular fantasy sim, but more open to some things that others aren't. I went there because some of my friends are there.

While the sim is important in the RP, the other key is the players. Doesn't matter how good of an event the owners plan out, without good players, it will still be crap.

A Forum might be an interesting idea, it would get some sims the attention they deserve - A number of great sims I've only just recently heard about despite having been around for about 2 years, and they were excellent quality. If not here on the LL boards, then I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult for someone somewhere to start or add to a forum elsewhere, or perhaps even just start a "RP Sim Review" thread and request it be stickied.

As for homphobia in Midian City, are you sure you weren't griefing or harassing people yourself? Some people can find it hard to tell, I know. Having RPed there for a year at least as (sometimes extremely) gay characters I can say I've never once come across even a hint of homophobia, especially not from any of the moderators. I'd direct you to Rith Valiant's post here, she says it somewhat more eloquently:

/327/ac/211345/3.html

I love that idea. Tombstone arizona is a wildwest sim with roleplay in the victorian era.
We are unusual in an RP sim in htat no sexual roleplay is tolerated.

Everwind is the same. ^_^

I'm very sorry to contribute to the derailing of this thread, however an accusation has been made here and in numerous other other threads by a persistent griefer that we sadly had to ban and I wish to briefly reply.

As a first life member of the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) whose activism and involvement goes far beyond merely carrying a card around with me, I want to say that this accusation made against us is absolutely baseless and outright sad.

Midian City is not, nor ever has been homophobic. Harassment of any kind is NOT tolerated in Midian City. Midian City is filled with and welcomes all sorts of orientations: straight, bi, gay, lesbian, etc. In fact, I have personally banned people in the past who have attempted to bring real life hate groups there and try to call it “roleplay”. Flat out ... it is not tolerated. Neither is griefing us with missiles and signs, as has been done by our accuser.

To use such a claim against us to justify one's griefing against a community welcoming of all, does a great disservice to those of us who take a stand and fight for civil liberties in both Second Life and in First Life.

I'm also interested in the idea, both to participate and moderate. A forum where opinions can be written up on roleplay in general would be interesting. I'll have to check out the DCS wall mentioned before, though a place for sims that don't use DCS or a particular system would be great.

Things seem very fragmented and tricky to find what would interest people. That's probably a byproduct of SL's growth.

Disraeli

There is an in world "games webring" recently started by Pirate Cotton. Its not quite a review board, but he has done a very nice job at setting up an info hub of sorts that helps people locate and find out info about various RP games within SL.

/165/b5/191944/1.html

http://slgames.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/gamering/

I don't think anyones qualified for this kind of thing, personally.

Review board means, opinion, opinions are variable things based in world views, world views are dynamic and unpredictable.

This isn't something you can do effectively. The role play in one sim may appeal to thousands, and not to a few hundred, does that make it great role play? I can't say, I won't say, and if I don't think I'm qualified to judge the quality of RP sims I'd submit that its hard to find anyone that is.

Theres so many good places out there now, its really hard to say, that sim X is better than sim Y, game system A is better than game system B.

Theres a bad experience waiting for you in any RP sim you may go to, that doesn't always have something to do with the sim itself as much as it has to do with you, your personality, the people you interact with, their personalities, the enviroment, the subject matter at hand, the world views of the players involved, the worldviews of the CHARACTERS in play, the maturity levels of the players of the characters in play....

There are so many god awful dynamics to the process of role play gaming in a live atmosphere in Second Life that theres just no way any review board could be competent to do it accurately.

Role play is what works for you, you are your own review board, there are so many worlds out there being designed and hosted by some very creative people, if you can't find one that suits you...make your own.

As a previous poster said, if its not good, its either not there any more, or its not doing much.....but even then, thats not even entirely correct, because there is an RP sim that I'm aware of that has around 20 active players and only maybe 3 - 10 of them on in the sim at any one time....and they're all very happy with that situation.

A good role play sim is the role play sim you make good.