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What's a Linden?

Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
09-18-2007 08:38
From: DarkWave Pendragon
I used to see these all the time, but now I dont. Ever. Anywhere, I get spammed to hell in the sandbox building things all the time. I cant hardly go anywhere without someone doing some sort of griefing? What are you Lindens doing? Where are you? Have you all died? Was Linden a cult and you all drank the Kool-Aid? Hey guys, we need some help, people are coming in and ruining experiences for everyone.


A Linden is a currency, an employee of Linden Lab, a kind of tree, the name of the street the companies' headquarters is on, a desert topping and a floor wax.
Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
Just a few people
09-18-2007 08:44
This turns out to be the case this time too - the current grid attacks are the work of a very small group of people who call themselves the Patriotic Nigras. Of course, they are neither patriotic, nor black.

Apart from the ease with which new free accounts can be created, the one thing that makes it possible for them to return time and time again despite being hardware and IP banned is "ShoopedLife", a modified client that spoofs all the user's hardware data. In combination with the use of proxy servers to evade IP bans, it makes the members of this griefer group completely unbannable.

It was created by a young man who calls himself "N3X15", and I've been seeing his real life data posted in the Second Life Herald and other places. Surely he could be held legally responsible for ALL these attacks? If the hacked client were to become unavailable, the grid attacks would most likely stop almost overnight.
Ava Glasgow
Hippie surfer chick
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
09-18-2007 12:14
From: Breeze Winnfield
The sad part is even if you disable particles and no longer see them, your computer still tracks them creating lag/strain on your cpu.
From: Ava Glasgow
Are you sure about this? It doesn't make sense to do that.
From: Dekka Raymaker
I'm not a tech, but I'm certain this is right, I'm sure I've read somewhere that particles are client side, so even turning them off could continue to eat at your CPU memory.

While looking up something else, I found a Knowledge Base article about occlusion culling, a feature introduced back in 1.10. The basics:
From: someone
There's a new feature in Second Life 1.10 that works seamlessly behind the scenes so you can enjoy a faster, smoother in-world experience. It's called occlusion culling, and it basically means things which you can't see won't be rendered (drawn) by your computer. As a result, your local frames per second value goes up, making SL run speedier, and the computer power saved can go towards further benefits like concentrating on what you can see.

Particles aren't mentioned, and I believe they wouldn't be affected directly by this anyway. Still, it shows that LL specifically programs the client to NOT render hidden items in order to save processing power. It is sensible to assume it might have occurred to them to do the same for particles. :)
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Hikaru Yamamoto
Oldbie
Join date: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 895
09-18-2007 12:16
As of right now the abuse reports don't seem to be doing much good. People are harrassing, spamming, and selling in sandboxes and nobody is out to fix it. When i was in live help i could listen to all the problems going on. Most everyone just had UI problems or noob questions. Attacks were actually rare. I don't think it would take 50 to 100 Lindens to improve the quality of SL.
If we are able to call a Linden to the scene, then they can observe what is going on and make a judgement. We should see less attacks if people knew there were real consequences.
I've seen a guy abuse 3 sandboxes every single day! People were fed up with him. Theres even a hate group dedicated to hating him. He was reported several times a day and still nothing happened. Nothing changed, he kept coming back just to harrass everyone. And if you tried to reason with him, he muted you. This went on for about 3 months. There was noone to help us. :(
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Its hippos all the way down...
Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
09-18-2007 12:49
From: Hikaru Yamamoto
As of right now the abuse reports don't seem to be doing much good. People are harrassing, spamming, and selling in sandboxes and nobody is out to fix it. When i was in live help i could listen to all the problems going on. Most everyone just had UI problems or noob questions. Attacks were actually rare. I don't think it would take 50 to 100 Lindens to improve the quality of SL.
If we are able to call a Linden to the scene, then they can observe what is going on and make a judgement. We should see less attacks if people knew there were real consequences.
I've seen a guy abuse 3 sandboxes every single day! People were fed up with him. Theres even a hate group dedicated to hating him. He was reported several times a day and still nothing happened. Nothing changed, he kept coming back just to harrass everyone. And if you tried to reason with him, he muted you. This went on for about 3 months. There was noone to help us. :(


The abuse reports do help - the trick is to get several different users to file a number of them over a short span of time. They have a software filter watching the abuse report queue, and when you do this it triggers a support event and alerts the Governance Team that there is a serious problem. This gets their attention right away, and they'll act, often within just a few minutes of seeing the alert notice.

This change in the abuse reporting system is only about three months old, so give it another try - I think you'll like the results.
Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
09-18-2007 12:55
From: Morwen Bunin


And in the case that someone can't be reached to turn on auto-return (or doesn't want to). LL has always removed the object.

Morwen.


sometimes right away, other time it might take awhile

took over 6 months of reporting an object that was rooted on my neighbours land, but sticking into my land, eventually it got moved
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From: someone
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. :)


They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
Kenbro Utu
Registered User
Join date: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 483
09-18-2007 13:07
From: Dekka Raymaker
I'm not a tech, but I'm certain this is right, I'm sure I've read somewhere that particles are client side, so even turning them off could continue to eat at your CPU memory.


If this is so, then why is there even a place in preferences to adjust the max number of particles you can see?
Day Oh
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 1,257
09-18-2007 14:31
On the subject of particles being processed while hidden... I don't think that's the case, because if you hide particles, go find and delete the object spamming them, then un-hide particles, the particles reappear in the same place they were before you hid them, and you just have to wait for them to bounce away.

I also would like to hear some thoughts on how to deal with floods of request permission to animate your avatar, and also locating those objects.
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
09-18-2007 15:05
Linden Lab got the message: Fix the bugs. They are constantly fixing bugs. They don't have free time to come inworld. I find the irony amusing.

*moves*

Please be nice to each other.
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Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
09-19-2007 00:53
From: Strife Onizuka
Linden Lab got the message: Fix the bugs. They are constantly fixing bugs. They don't have free time to come inworld. I find the irony amusing.

*moves*

Please be nice to each other.


True, but it would be nice to have just 2-6 accessable Lindens online all the time........
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Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]

Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107)

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Hikaru Yamamoto
Oldbie
Join date: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 895
09-19-2007 14:59
From: Tegg Bode
True, but it would be nice to have just 2-6 accessable Lindens online all the time........


I agree, and i would like to be one of those Lindens :)
_____________________
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Europa/152/33/69/

Its hippos all the way down...
YourA Misfit
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jun 2006
Posts: 13
09-23-2007 20:58
From: Kalel Venkman
The abuse reports do help - the trick is to get several different users to file a number of them over a short span of time. They have a software filter watching the abuse report queue, and when you do this it triggers a support event and alerts the Governance Team that there is a serious problem. This gets their attention right away, and they'll act, often within just a few minutes of seeing the alert notice.

This change in the abuse reporting system is only about three months old, so give it another try - I think you'll like the results.



Oh yes, and make sure every single person sending an abuse report is a paid customer, anyone that is not paying 10 dollars a month, your abuse report goes directly into the trash, no questions asked.
Ava Glasgow
Hippie surfer chick
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
09-23-2007 21:26
From: YourA Misfit
Oh yes, and make sure every single person sending an abuse report is a paid customer, anyone that is not paying 10 dollars a month, your abuse report goes directly into the trash, no questions asked.

I'm calling BS on this. If you actually have evidence to support this statement, please share it.
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
09-23-2007 22:24
From: someone
Linden Lab got the message: Fix the bugs. They are constantly fixing bugs. They don't have free time to come inworld. I find the irony amusing.
Oh, so they've got Liaisons, "Community Builders", and marketing folks debugging and coding now? I find the patent absurdity of that statement ironically amusing.
YourA Misfit
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jun 2006
Posts: 13
09-24-2007 11:05
From: Ava Glasgow
I'm calling BS on this. If you actually have evidence to support this statement, please share it.


Support Availability by Account Type

Basic Accounts: If you are a Basic account holder, you have access to our in-depth Knowledge Base and Solution Finder. You do not have access to our Inworld or Outworld support teams. However, we're constantly improving our Knowledge Base and Solution Finder to assist Residents who are Basic account holders with resolving your issues independently. There are also a few Special Questions** for which we DO provide Basic account holders with ticket access.

https://secure-web0.secondlife.com/community/support.php

Claim BS all you like, LL has officially swept basic accounts under the rug. You are not eligible for inworld or outworld support. So guess what, it all goes into the trash. Oh, and this also holds true if you buy lindens, if your still on a basic account and something happens with your purchase of lindens, LL will in no way help you.
Myradyl Muse
Mermaid
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 50
09-24-2007 12:01
From: Hikaru Yamamoto
am i the only one who thinks cutting live help out altogether was a bad idea? We need a live help system that isn't for answering noob questions, thats what mentors are for. In stead we need one for attacks and grid problems so people can get immediate help.


QFT.

I rarely post and rarely complain. Sinatra, I feel your pain. I've been enduring similar events of late on the Mainland, that seem to be increasing in frequency.

Before someone leaps in to instruct me about land management, yes, I have:
- disabled Build, Script, Object Intrusion and Push
- during assails, I also disable Particles
- enabled immediate Autoreturn
- AR done every time


All of this, to little avail. I do not have control of all my neighbours' plots and most especially, not Governor Linden's (which I just happen to border). While ARs may be all well and good, the response time has been less than helpful (hours into days), while these things continue to spew, scream, bounce and affect not only personal fps but sim performance. Sim crashes have also resulted. Your mileage may vary and I'm glad others have seen swift results. Alas, I have not. Couple this with an inability to swiftly contact a Linden for intervention to prevent sim deterioration, frustration and dismay do mount.

There was a time we could call upon Lindens inworld for emergency measures. It worked splendidly. I can't seem to do that any longer. I fully understand the cost factor of installing countless personnel into the mix with the current size of our world. However, how unfeasible can it be to have a small dedicated grief AR team, accessible INWORLD to all Residents, separate from the full AR process, to target these types of urgent issues in a critical timeframe? If there is one and I can access them live INWORLD, please enlighten me.

My mermaid two cents.
Ava Glasgow
Hippie surfer chick
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
09-24-2007 12:33
@ YourA:

Oh I see... you have confused "Abuse Report" with "Support".

They are two totally different things, and from what people have said here, I believe they are handled by two separate groups of staff and/or contractors (or at least through a separate ticketing system).

"Support" is for getting help when you have a problem with the system: your credit card won't bill, your region needs restarting, your inventory is corrupted, stuff like that. Support is about LL doing something for you as an individual account holder, and therefore it is reasonable for LL provide a reduced level of support to account holders who do not pay for it.

An "Abuse Report" is for reporting other residents who are breaking the rules: griefing, harassing, exhibiting sexual material in a PG sim, hanging prims over parcel borders, etc. Abuse reporting is about identifying, warning, and sometimes punishing or banning individuals who are misbehaving. By submitting a legitimate abuse report, you are actually helping LL to police the grid.

To my knowledge, LL has never said anything about ignoring ARs from Basic accounts, and there is no reason for them to do so. You are doing their job for them.

That said, it seems to me that they may ignore abuse reports that are incomplete or incomprehensible, or are complaining about resident behavior that is not actually against the rules (like a landlord evicting you and not refunding your rent).

So, to help those out there who have trouble submitting good abuse reports, think about what the AR staff probably cares about and what they don't.

They do not care that you got your feelings hurt. They do not care that you gave an object permission to take your money, and then it did. They do not care that a landbot bought the land that you set for sale to anyone at L$1. They do not care that you are REALLY REALLY REALLY UPSET!!!

What they DO want is an AR that briefly and clearly, without emotion, tells what has been done and what rule it has broken, and properly documents the act in question (screenshot, chat log, exact time and place it happened, etc.). If you CAN submit a clear, calm, well-documented abuse report on something that is actually AR-able, I think you will find your AR is dealt with accordingly.

And also remember, most first offenders with minor infractions are only given a warning. LL considers this "resolved", without following up to see if the offender has actually stopped the behavior. If the situation is not fixed, you will need to AR again, being sure to tell LL you are following up on a previous AR that was not resolved.

---

Phew! To put all that briefly: Support is about you, so the type of account you have matters. Abuse Reports are about the offender, not the reporter, so the reporter's account type is of no consequence.
Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-24-2007 13:27
From: Sinatra Cartier
Pariticles flood the whole sim no matter whos land they are on.

(edited so I don't get banned)
Gosh Sinatra, you are _old_. No offence. ;) I suspect most SL users would trade 80% of their inventory contents for a 2003 birth date.

I wonder if you're in one of those old sims in the western half of the mainland? If so, until last Wednesday, it had been a long time since I'd witnessed sim-wide grief attacks. Then I wandered some of those sims (gualala, mauve, da boom, nova albion, etc) and saw that most of them were basically unusable due to the particle griefing.

I abuse reported one of them, but several hours later they were still there.
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It's only a forum, no one dies.
Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-24-2007 13:30
From: Ann Launay
Also, the Lindens rarely visit these forums, so posting to them here isn't likely to do you any good.
Don't say that. It makes me feel like we've been locked in school without any teachers, at the mercy of power-hungry hall monitors.

Actually, that's not an entirely unaccurate official forum analysis. :D
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It's only a forum, no one dies.
Sinatra Cartier
From Beta to Zeta!
Join date: 8 Jan 2003
Posts: 533
09-24-2007 21:23
From: Hikaru Yamamoto
I agree, and i would like to be one of those Lindens :)


And I would LOVE you to be one of those Lindens!
_____________________

...and I think to myself, what a wonderful world.



Sinatra's Spook House Ride: Noyo (100, 150, 25)
Sinatra Cartier
From Beta to Zeta!
Join date: 8 Jan 2003
Posts: 533
09-24-2007 21:24
From: Walker Moore
Gosh Sinatra, you are _old_. No offence. ;) I suspect most SL users would trade 80% of their inventory contents for a 2003 birth date.

I wonder if you're in one of those old sims in the western half of the mainland? If so, until last Wednesday, it had been a long time since I'd witnessed sim-wide grief attacks. Then I wandered some of those sims (gualala, mauve, da boom, nova albion, etc) and saw that most of them were basically unusable due to the particle griefing.

I abuse reported one of them, but several hours later they were still there.


Hello Walker, yes I am in Noyo, Da Boom, Stillman, etc...
_____________________

...and I think to myself, what a wonderful world.



Sinatra's Spook House Ride: Noyo (100, 150, 25)
Sinatra Cartier
From Beta to Zeta!
Join date: 8 Jan 2003
Posts: 533
09-24-2007 21:26
From: Myradyl Muse
QFT.

I rarely post and rarely complain. Sinatra, I feel your pain. I've been enduring similar events of late on the Mainland, that seem to be increasing in frequency.

Before someone leaps in to instruct me about land management, yes, I have:
- disabled Build, Script, Object Intrusion and Push
- during assails, I also disable Particles
- enabled immediate Autoreturn
- AR done every time


All of this, to little avail. I do not have control of all my neighbours' plots and most especially, not Governor Linden's (which I just happen to border). While ARs may be all well and good, the response time has been less than helpful (hours into days), while these things continue to spew, scream, bounce and affect not only personal fps but sim performance. Sim crashes have also resulted. Your mileage may vary and I'm glad others have seen swift results. Alas, I have not. Couple this with an inability to swiftly contact a Linden for intervention to prevent sim deterioration, frustration and dismay do mount.

There was a time we could call upon Lindens inworld for emergency measures. It worked splendidly. I can't seem to do that any longer. I fully understand the cost factor of installing countless personnel into the mix with the current size of our world. However, how unfeasible can it be to have a small dedicated grief AR team, accessible INWORLD to all Residents, separate from the full AR process, to target these types of urgent issues in a critical timeframe? If there is one and I can access them live INWORLD, please enlighten me.

My mermaid two cents.


Agreed. I would like to know how to access a live Linden INWORLD also.
_____________________

...and I think to myself, what a wonderful world.



Sinatra's Spook House Ride: Noyo (100, 150, 25)
Calliope Simon
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 154
09-25-2007 12:35
From: Morwen Bunin
And you think messages like this will help anything? Or is it "cool" to post in this way?

If a griefer acts, AR... a good detailed, but not agressive AR with all the information needed and if needed a snapshot included.

That does help (have seen the result often).... Bashing around here on the forums will help nothing, apart from getting the thread locked.

Morwen.


I'm going to be super nice here, so listen up. It won't happen again.

Almost all reports of abuse of any kind will absolutely, positively, go ignored, period. This is because Linden Labs doesn't have the resources to hire an appropriately large staff for all the promises they made back when everyone thought Second Life was cool. (which was about the same time that people started thinking digital watches weren't).

However, if you file an abuse report on sunday morning, between 6am and 8am PST, it will be acted upon. I do not know why, and I do not know who's doing it, but whoever it is needs absolutely no proof of anything, no screenshots, nothing. It's actually become a great way to grief to tell the truth--just file a fake report during those hours on that day, and whoever your target is will certainly be suspended within minutes---whether they did anything or not.

Of course, this information should not be used for nefarious purposes, but should be used instead, by the Lindens, as a wakeup call to their own extreme incompetence.
Okiphia Rayna
DemonEye Benefactor
Join date: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 2,103
09-26-2007 10:32
From: Morwen Bunin
Make sure that on your land and the land of your neighbors auto-return is enabled. Problem solved.... This is something people can solve themselves. Bad land management is not in first place a Linden problem...

And in the case that someone can't be reached to turn on auto-return (or doesn't want to). LL has always removed the object.

Morwen.


I personally returned an item (I placed it though... lol) after seeing its effect, only to have that particle effect continue for another 4 or 5 hours at least. So having auto-return on doesn't solve it immediately with all particle effects. Also, this effect was huge, the second largest ive seen (Biggest being a max-size particle effect.. loved it tho lol...), and wasn't the prettiest in the world. I didn't put in a report, since it is my land and it wasnt hurting anything at present, but it wasnt gone immediately upon removal of the object. So no, it isnt just auto-return=problem solved.
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