Age Verification (Poll)

I took Jon Hunt's idea from the other Age Verification post and started a poll to see what people think.

Personally, I have no intention of giving my personal information to SL or another third party. Especially my social security number. And despite being almost 19 now, the only credit card I have is the one where I'm on my parent's account. So for me credit card verification isn't much good either. Drivers license might be ok, but then who's to stop someone from just editing one? I don't really like the idea of some company running a background check on me just so kids can't get into SL. And in almost a year of using SL now I have yet to have any problems with an underaged user that couldn't be solved just by reporting them, and even then that was only a single person ever since I joined. So I don't see any burning need for the system to be changed so soon and so radically.

And in any case I don't intend to pay for age verification. I couldn't care less if some kids get into SL, imho since LL's the one that wants verification, they should be the ones to pay for it.

If they start asking for SSN's, they might as well start submitting income data to Uncle Sam for verified residents. Might as well kill 2 birds with one stone.

Then they would probably make it so only residents who are fully verified can sell anything. I can see the future.

/sarcasm off ???

no age verification? thats just a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you think LL is the only company that will be sued,think again, they will sue the land owners and makers and owners of the items as well, try to get money anywhere they can. Just because they might not be able to win, doesn't mean they wont sue. Legally Linden Labs, and the owners of the content have to show they tried to the best of their reasonable ability to prevent minors from seeing 'adult' material. No verification does not do this... current system does not do this... Credit card information does not do this (you do not have to be 18+ in the US to have a credit card). They are going with the next best thing that will hold up in court, and help lead the way that the whole internet will have to be moving in.

The Lindens idea not are not working. A child can steal documents of his/her parents, and he/she can do the registration. And what about the price? How many linden, if im basic member? I have no driver license, and i have no passport. Because of this brilliant idea, i can ask a passport???

"I’m outside the US. Does it work the same in each country?
The exact information required for Identity verification may vary from country to country, but the system works in generally the same way around the world."

And the linden will do a complex system for the verification...? I dont belive it. The lenght of the National ID number is 9 in US, 11 in Hungary. And how can i pay for the Verification? Ingame ? Or my credit card ? And who is the 3rd party ?
We want more information !!!

(Sorry for my broken english)

What exactly would they sue for? The only law that I know of intended to "protect" kids from porn (COPA) was ruled unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Online_Protection_Act

It doesn't matter what is constitutional or what is not constitutional..........a lawsuit can be made anyway. Lawsuits cost money...........and you have no choice but to spend the money should you be named in the suit. What the verification does is make the likelihood of someone filing the suit the a little less likely since a "reasonable" effort was put forth by the parties to prevent unlawful access to adult content. It becomes the person doing the unlawful act of falsely presenting "verification" information being put on the hot seat.

And........look for methods similar to begin happening all over the internet. Soon, very soon. And, I believe once you get verified for SL you will also be verified on any other site requiring age verification in the future (as long as the sites use the same verification company as SL). Get ready for it.........it's coming. The days of free adult material for anyone are coming to an end. And that's a good thing in my eyes.

Bugger, I voted for the wrong option, I meant to say the free one with all options.

I never supported the opening of unverified registrations (I can't say again how thankful I am that Linden Labs consulted the community for our opinion before doing that). I believe that only people who can verify their age and provide some kind of information with which they may hold themselves accountable as a citizen of Second Life.
Now, I understand that many aren't able to verify, and this is a disappointing state of affairs, so additional methods such passports, driver's license etc. are GREAT ways to open it up to more people (passports especially). However, additional verification methods needs to come hand-in-hand with CLOSING the damned registrations again, all it's doing is artifically enlarging Linden Lab's e-penis with people who could be any age and joining the community with any intention. At least when you HAD to verify your age to sign-up there was some measure of control.

As it is now what LL is doing is trying to rectify a TREMENDOUS mistake by covering it with ANOTHER big-one. When what they should have done is not opened registrations to begin with, or should now close them again and work on more and more ways to verify. A great number of problems today are the result of open registrations and influxes of free players who do not contribute to the economy but instead just leech off of those who DO pay.
I'm not meaning to be unfair to those who genuinely can't verify and such, but how many unverifieds out there COULD verify, but don't and simply wander around sitting on camping chairs, getting freebies and contributing to a load that the system can't handle?

*shakes head* Sorry for the mini rants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Online_Protection_Act

The Child Online Protection Act[1] (COPA)[2] is a law in the United States of America, passed in 1998 with the declared purpose of protecting minors from harmful sexual material on the internet. The federal courts have ruled that the law likely violates the constitutional protection of free speech, and therefore have blocked it from taking effect. Because COPA only limited commercial speech and only affected US providers, the effect on the availability of the regulated material to minors if the law was enforced was unlikely to be significant. Several US states have since passed similar laws.

The law was part of a series of efforts by US lawmakers legislating over internet pornography. Parts of the earlier and much broader Communications Decency Act had been struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court; COPA was a direct response to that decision, narrowing the range of material covered.

COPA required all commercial distributors of "material harmful to minors" to restrict their sites from access by minors. "Material harmful to minors" was defined as material that by "contemporary community standards" was judged to appeal to the "prurient interest" and that showed sexual acts or nudity (including female breasts). This is a much broader standard than obscenity and likely covers all hardcore and softcore pornography.

Summary: Sites needed to, by law, display the stupid "WARNING: ADULT CONTENT" warning untill VERY recently.

LL is just doing this for money, Don't kid yourself - Theres no legal reason they're putting this system in to "protect the children".

you all don't understand the legal reasons.. its nothing at all to do with COPA.

If 11 year old Susie gets to some place and is accessing pornography, and its shown in court that it looks like the person on the internet was intentionally showing her the pornography (wether they really were or not), you can be brought up on criminal charges that have nothing at all to do with COPA.

I even remember a case (dont feel like searching for it) where parents of a girl who was raped sued MySpace for facilitating the rape. The underage girl met some older guy on MySpace, then they started talking on the phone, then they met in person, and she got raped... I dont believe they own their case against MySpace, but MySpace had to pay a lot to defend themselves. How much money do you think some average non-business landowner has to defend a lawsuit cuz little Susie saw 2 Avatars having 'sex' on that owners land and the parents decided to sue because the Landowner made it possible for minors to go in and see sexual things, or at least didn't take reasonable measure to assure it did not.

If it can be shown in court that you put pornographic materials up that "damaged" a minor, its iffy if you can be criminally charged with the current state of COPA, but that does not stop a civil suit for a million dollars against you. It will be very hard for civil suits to happen when it is shown that everything was done within reason to keep the kids out. If you think some parent who has dollar signs in their eyes is only going to sue LL, your dreaming, they'll sue everyone they can, especially after LL tells them they are not responsible for what their residents put up on their own land.

Like I said in another thread: I pay a for membership with my credit card. That should be verification enough. Linden Labs and whatever 3rd party they hire can go fuck themselves if they think they're getting any part of my SSN.

There will be no lawsuits.

This will pass, just like every other "ZOMG DOOM!" topic that all the forum trolls and attention whores get their panties in a wad over.

Everyone will stay, even though I'm sure many will threaten to leave in completely melodramatic fashion.

No, unlike most other things in SL this potentially affects real life. Identity theft is a very real and very serious issue. And one of the easiest ways to have your identity stolen is by handing out your SSN. And I'm not even going to get into other concerns I have over this.

And so far, the only word from somebody official on data storage comes from Jeska at the blog:

Emphasis mine.




In other words... everybody in these dozens of threads is getting all in an uproar over baseless wild speculation.

It doesn't matter. The age verification company will insure Linden Lab against failures in their system. Ie. if a child slips through the net and is caught doing something illegal on adult land (whatever that would be ) LL can breath a sigh of relief because it's not their problem.

As for the rest..well, I sympathise..but it means your future movements will be more limited.

I don't know. A visit to Xcite was as much a rite of passage during one's first week as wearing a box on the head. No more.

I'm calling bullshit on that one. I don't see how they can implement this without storing such information.

Step 1. Users pass data.
Step 2. Company uses data to do verification.
Step 3. Company returns Yes/No to Lindens.
Step 4. Company deletes user data.

Your information won't be verified every time you go to a restricted parcel. You'll verify once and have a flag set on your account saying that you've been verified. After that, since you can't get younger, you are good to go.

So tell me, why do all the law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, warn against giving out your SSN?

It's vague anyway. "...unless the customer chooses to do so," doesn't make grammatical sense in that sentence does it? The thing about data storage also seems more relevant to the US than elsewhere because they cross-check 4 digits of your SS number with publicly available records, whereas overseas they require actual documents (or copies of them).

You shouldn't give your SSN to anybody who is going to keep it on permanent record.

But again... nobody has any definitive proof that the Lindens or this other company will be doing that. The only word on the subject we have is Jeska's comment. Everything else is reactionary speculation.

People need to calm down and wait for more information. This wasn't an end-all be-all blog entry. More info will be coming.

There, fixed for you.

Deleted (already answered)

I'm sorry, but if you trust some company (especially one that makes a business of selling information) with your vital personal information, which even the government warns you not to give out, then you are incredibly niave.

Reguardind Personal Data.

Use of credit card information to verify age is the norm in the buisness, anything else is considered a security risk and is discouraged. If you are asked for this kind of information by a company do not use that company, their are always others. In most circumstances their is no need for a company to require you to provide this kind of information.
Once your details have been sent over the net you have no control over that information. IF your user data is then used fraudently you are responsible and can expect to be liable for the debt and may in most cases face criminal prosicution.

I have been working in the computer industry for over 25 years now and advise ppl NOT to divulge personal data to anybody but a TRUSTED company subject to stringent data protection laws, and only then by use of a secured connection. A un-named third party is not a trusted company and you will have no legal recourse if said data is misused.


Reguarding Adult Content and Minors.

Linden Labs are already protected from law suits by the ToS, you MUST be 18 or over to have an account.

If a person breaks into your home/ place of buiness and steals a gun from a locked case are you criminaly liable ?
Was locking your front door not "reasonable steps" to ensure that no one could access that weapon ?
Of course it was.

The real crime is being commited by the minor and by default the responsible adult, not you or in this case Linden Labs. The blame lies soely with the parents of the offender for not adaqietly supervising said minor.

A case could be put that the parents were guilty of criminal neglect for not adiquietly supervising their offspring. And in most western countries child services would be called to investigate such a case of neglect.

Further more LL have a good prima facia case for sueing the parents of ANY under 18 yo whom they catch accessing their service, as that in itself constitutes fraud against LL and their associates. It is a breach of terms of service and anybody sueing LL would be liable for the full costs of such actions. If you as a parent allow your children to access SL then you are liable not LL, you are the one who faces crippling finacial costs not to mention having your kids removed by the athorities. It is the resonsiblity of parents to ensure the wellbeing of their own children not socity at large. The "Lets Protect the Kiddies" brigade should stfu and take responsibility for the protection of their own chilren, we (society) are not responsible for your neglect, but we will hold you accountable for it.

yes, you work in the computer industry for sure and not a legal profession. Credit cards are not allowed to be used as age verification by rules of the credit card companies. If you need to show ID to get somewhere, show ID, if you don't want to show your ID, go somewhere else. The rest of your message is all speculation, as all that info on how they have their system set up has not been released. If someone misuses your information against a pre-agreed upon condition, you will not be held to a criminal charge. You are only assuming there will be no agreement with the 3rd party... there will be an agreement, you are the one going to that 3rd party directly to give the information. Your information is not transfered to any other parties, including Linden Labs.




most all of that is hogwash. It sounds good, but its not the actual way the legal system works. Yes if you have unsafe conditions in your house, and a burglar breaks in and those conditions cause harm to them, they can sue you and easily win, even if they were not welcome and trespassing.

Having an opened door saying COME ALL YE WHO WANT TO ENTER! with a little side note to the other side of the door stating who they don't want in... is not the same as locking the door.

Yes it would be great if parents would be totally held responsible for their children, but that is not how it really works. We can scream and yell about what would be ideal, but we have to face the way reality is.

Let me get this straight, they want me to PAY THEM to take my most personal information and do god knows what with it? You know, I went on the net one day when a friend clued me into a find anyone site. When I inputted my own name, there I was with my last 3 addresses and my phone number in black and white on the net. Anyone, just anyone could pull that up and find me if they wanted to. The ex husband who was abusive in every way you can imagine, the ex of an old LTR who believes that since our children have the same father that we should get together and raise them as siblings (this woman is a complete nutcase) and so forth. When I investigated how this could happen I was told when I check my credit or do anything having to do with my credit my addresses get stored and are public information for the asking.

I recently moved and have decided that any credit stuff (I don't believe in using credit anyway except for cars and houses anyway) uses my parents address (they gave me permission) in an attempt to keep my current address where I plan to live many years private and unaccessable to any tom dick and harry who wants it just for the asking. So Linden Labs wants just this information I am attempting to keep private and they SAY that it will be deleted. Ok, so even if- really, how do they know the people that are doing it don't have a renegade employee that is doing something with the information. They may be protected by the process but what about me?

I'm not a premium member at the moment. I do however support SL buy buying linden dollars to spend on stuff. In the time I have been here I have spent more $L each month then a premium allotment would have given me per month. Considering that fact, I was contemplating just going premium this month, but I'm not so sure now that they started talking about this and I am holding off. I don't relish paying for a premium membership only to be severely restricted in where I can go AND I get no land, what really is the point. And then they want me to pay them MORE money again as I said...to just hand over all kinds of personal information. Even if it was free I'd still have serious misgivings because it is still handing over all kinds of information that you are continually warned by security experts, the government, etc NOT to give out to strangers and especially not on the net.