Do you REALLY make money here?

"Thanks if you read this.
__________________
~Michael Bigwig"

Michael, at least one person reads your posts with a great interest and is very thankful .

No no...see that's my point...you WON'T be eating big mac and drinking Coca Cola if you follow my methodology--you'll be dining on Prime Rib and drinking a nice Bordeaux.

All of you that teleport to a classified that is badly designed, horribly worded, and stuck in a camp-zone...it is these spots that are the Burger Kings and Paylesses of Second Life.

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.

Mike is right in theory. A high quality well done ad should lead to a quality establishment, but in reality it isn't always true, as we see in RL. Some of the most brilliant and expensively produced ad campaigns lead to pure shit, while the most humble of notices can lead to a true gem. In the end you have to know what you want, and to spend wisely.

Yes, I agree--but let us be clear--a humble design and business model is much different from a badly designed one. Humble can be good. Humble does not infer bad design. Bad design does not infer humble.

I love a minimalistic approach to ad placement, logo design, and text choice--but again, there is a difference between minimal, and horrible.

There are plenty of great designers and builders out there--you have to find them. And you certainly aren't going to find them with a wretched ad, logo, and write-up. All the quality work is professional--as it should be--it makes it easier for us to determine what's good, and what's not.

And those of us that do quality work are quickly spread by word of mouth (and clever marketing). Good designers know other good designers. And avid consumers are quick to learn who to buy from and who not to buy from.

First impressions are very important--and this starts with a solid, well planned, sleekly designed ad and write-up. Yes there are cases where a sleek marketing campaign and nifty logo are used to hide crappy merchandise...but 9 times out of 10, if the initial presentation is of high quality, so will the product be. And this is even more pronounced in Second Life.

This being said, do not let this discourage any of you--keep working at your craft. Just keep in mind, you have to study and practice if you want to 'succeed.' And it's not going to come overnight.

I mean, all conceit aside, would you think by the look of my avatar and signature that I put out crappy work? Or quality? It all matters...all the small details make a difference, believe me.

Cheers.

I agree with both - Michael and Brenda.
The problem is - people are different. There are people that will appreciate a good add but how many will not? RL example - I live in the USA and I'm horrified by the stupid, ugly adds on the TV, the good ones are an exception. It looks like the majority of the adds are made for idiots with no education (good taste) and they come from established businesses. It's sad but it obviously works .

Yes, but compared to a crappy one, a well designed ad/logo brings in MUCH more attention--why do you think big-business has a massive budget for marketing and design? They pay skilled, trained, high quality designers to create a face and look for them, because it works.

If a company REALLY cares about their product and service, they will polish their entire presence...not just a part of it. It's very rare to find a slick professional ad, and have crappy merchandise. And it's just as rare to find a crappy ad and description, and find high quality product...

They go hand in hand for the most part--that's why it's so important.

I just absolutely disagree with you on this, Michael. A person's skill in whatever trade they choose often has no correlation to their skill in producing slick ads, or the level that they care about putting money into slick ads. Is that a good marketing practice for them, NO! But does that indicate that their product is inferior? NO!

A RL example: In my experience, the very best foods you will find almost anywhere are in the small, family-owned restaurants with the crummy hand-written sign out front. The places with the best signs, or the most expensive advertising, are places like Applebees and Burger King, whose food I find to be inferior.

This is how Heineken - which is considered a bog standard and pretty poor excuse for beer in its home market - convinced the world that it really is a premium beer worth paying through the nose for. Marketing will quite frequently win over content.

Look at your own beloved Budweiser, which unbelievably has succeeded in marketing itself as an upmarket beer in Europe, sometimes priced at three times the price of - much better - domestic beers.

You are on the right track...but...

If a designer/builder has quality work, but for some reason can't put together a quality ad for themselves, there is something lacking, and they will suffer for it. Simple as that. That is why a good 'business person' will hire a designer to make a good ad/logo/campaign for them.

You can't just polish your doorknob and expect someone to buy your house.

It really does make a difference--that's what I'm arguing. I'm not at all saying that a good builder will know how to create an ad or logo--however, if they care about their image, good business, and their future, they will get someone who does know what they are doing.

And this is what I'm talking about. 9 times out of 10 if a person has quality goods, they will have a quality classified and logo--whether they make it themselves or not...it will be in place. And 9 times out of 10 if a person has a slick ad or logo, they will have quality product. They go hand in hand.

Relating food and restaurants into this equation doesn't jive--food is a business on it's own--we prefer 'home cook'in', and realize that sometimes the 'dives' have best food.

There is no denying that massive marketing strategies will harness power, and bring the traffic--but only an idiot would call Budweiser better than Sierra Nevada--ok ok...so maybe you like your beer as similar to water as possible (or a watered down product)...but when you ask a TRUE beer drinker which product is superior, it's a no-brainer. Same with other companies...

Sometimes even when a superior product comes along, people ae too conditioned to even try it or like it when they do. My Dad drank Bud for as as long as I've bee around, he would try the " better" beers, but didn't like them.

Coors is another example. The mystique of it not being sold East of Mississippi made for a great campaign when it finally was marketed widely.But it's a mediocre Bud like beer. I remember the same with Corona in the 80's, which is ok in the summer by the pool......let's stop talking about beer please.

Yes I can. A great add does not equal a great product anymore than a rubbish ad equals a rubbish product. My point being that people without any ads, classifieds or blatant self-promotion may be terrific designers making terrific products. Perhaps they're not in it for the money or to announce to the world at large how fabulous they are.
As an example, I've been following Raymond's lead in promoting my current favourite store in my signature. They're not huge, I've never seen them post in the new products, I've never seen them post in the forums with a huge ad in their signature, but they're excellent and provide top notch service. Just sayin'
BTW, I feel strongly about this, because I like supporting smaller stores and unknown designers that are in it for the fun, not the money, who love their craft, and don't necessarily care about the bottom line of their accounts.

Yuk, I hate beer, anyone got a lemo?

You're not really reading my posts. I can't argue with THAT.

Sally Silvera: "My point being that people without any ads, classifieds or blatant self-promotion may be terrific designers making terrific products. Perhaps they're not in it for the money or to announce to the world at large how fabulous they are."

But if they DID have an ad or classified, you can bet your last Linden it would most likely be quality--whether they did it themselves or hired someone to do it.

Michael, this is getting really irritating.

Please don't use figures like 9 out of 10 when you obviously made them up. I can just as easily say that 9 out of 10 things work the way I say they do.

You used the food argument yourself a few posts ago with your "prime rib" and now you say it doesn't count. It must only be okay if you use it.

You're getting "good business model" all mixed up with "better product" and trying to argue how right you are on the former. I think most of us agree that better ads sell more products, so stop trying to argue that like you're so smart, and we're a bunch of monkeys.

I can't make any sense at all out of your beer paragraph. You seem to agree that better ads definitely don't signify a better product.

My impression is that all you care about is being an irritant.

I firmly believe with the right advertising campaign, you can sell a really bad product. The TV stations are full of them. To emphasise a point, look at the music industry... dare I say to those that live in the UK, the 'Tweety Bird Song?'.... or to our cousins in the states, Jimmy Osmond?
Advertising is no assurance of quality. Nor is the amount of money that is ploughed into advertising campaigns. What advertising is perhaps best at, is awareness, bring to ppls attention a product(s), those with more money than perhaps sense will be sucked in by the slogans, pretty pictures and speel of catchy tunes, those with more grey matter will always choose more wisely.

A typical example of advertising in RL would be Nike. Advertising is spot on, but the product? Made in sweat shops in the far east for a couple of dollars, sold for around 100+ USD. This shows that with enough money and the right slogan/logo and a few catchy words.. you can sell anything.

Coke Cola is 99.5% water and 'spring water' is 100% water, but we all pay premuims for what has been uncovered in some cases as 'tap water', the only 'spring' was probably in the tap. According to statistics, we in the UK apparently each have 5.4 mobile (cell) phones for each member of the population. Why? Becuase we are led to believe in the advertising that we should all have the latest one (I have a standard phone and only 1, so someone else has 9.4 phones LOL). I'm waiting for the one that cleans the car, washing the windows and mows the grass, then I can retire.

Yes, AW...you're right---with the right marketing campaign, you can sell almost anything.

Second Life is a little bit more disconnected--not fully integrated into these 'rules' we speak of--you are more likely to find a decent product connected to a decent ad. I think SL is a niche market still (not your average person is a 'company' face here)--so things are a little more black and white. If you have an excellent product, you probably are pretty savvy, and most likely have a quality ad/logo/description. If you don't...there's something wrong.

And on the flip side--if you have a quality ad/logo/description, you clearly understand the importance of marketing, and I can assume the same amount of care was given to your product--whatever that may be.

This is not always the case, however, like I said, SL is a niche market (the hardcore), so if you know what you're doing, and have skill--this will translate in all areas.

Yes, there are some products that stink, but because money flows like wine, quality designers are hired to make professional ads...however, a smart consumer (and salesperson) understands the subterfuge, and makes decisions based on previous analysis.

Bottom line--in SL, marketing quality, and product quality are pretty closely related. I can tell you one thing for sure...it's extremely rare to find a high quality product with a horrid advertising scheme.

/me slaps her forehead and gives up

I'll agree with Gort on this one. In SL the creators are artists, and since they do their own marketing for the most part, the correlation is valid.

For real life to prove the Great Ad Campaign/Shit Product there are enough examples. I usually start with McDonalds......

This is purely your opinion or experience. Normally I totally respect a difference of opinion. You, however, like to assert your opinions, repeatedly, as if they are rock solid facts, and ignore everyone else's examples to the contrary.

I still say you are dead wrong on this. Since it's really a matter of opinion and personal experience, there's nothing much more we can do except keep repeating ourselves louder and louder.

I will point out the humor in the fact that you told us one page earlier that slick ads are the way to find prime rib, and now you're saying "Relating food and restaurants into this equation doesn't jive." Do you really care what your position is, or do you just like arguing with people?

One thing I'll add, which I don't think has been brought up. Slick polished ads in SL to me reek of high cheese. When I see a Madison Avenue quality ad, I think, "they must be compensating for an inferior product." This is purely my opinion, and I'm not going to try to assert that "9 OUT OF TEN 10 STORES ARE LIKE THIS" out of respect for my fellow forum dwellers.

I think couching this in terms of bottom lines and "for sures" is not very credible or respectful, since this topic is SO based on personal opinion and personal experience. I think you are dead wrong, Michael, but I can understand why you think it and still respect your opinion.

I will go a step further, and suggest that expensive-looking slick ads more often lead me to worse products. In RL or in SL, junkier products need all the more help to move them. The more time that goes by with slow sales, the more desperate the "junk dealer" is going to become, resorting to bolder, shinier, more colorful ads, maybe resorting to paying a professional to produce one.

Very desirable products generate their own publicity by people using them, talking about them, sharing the landmark, and returning to the business. When you ask someone, "Wow, where'd you get that?" and they drop you the landmark, do you care how crappy the sign is, and check that before you go in?

Again, this is my opinion. Your experience can, may, and probably will vary.

-Avion

I agree with Sally: marketing quality does not correlate with product quality.

I play SL for fun. I make quality scripts & products because I enjoy making them. I post them on SLX with a simple pic and clear description -- no brand art, no photoshopping, no fuss. I'm just not into that, and what do I do with the $L anyway? Buy a bit of clothing, or a trinket for my honey, or overtipping a dancer. What do I care about marketing? Zip.

People who make generalizations are idiots!

PS: my products are all marketed under an alt name, so don't bother looking. This is not a sneaky ad.

even better