Do you REALLY make money here?

I'm learning to build and hope at some point to be good enough that folks will want to buy something I make. I don't care if I make a lot but if it would cover tier and premium that would be great. I was looking at my account history and since I began actively participating in mid June I think it was, I've spent quite a bit of RL dollars..it would be nice to get some of that back -

But honestly, I get a lot more just from the participation - the meeting interesting people from all over, the sharing of the beauty created. It amazes me really, all the stuff in SL that actually is free for the taking - not just stuff but the scenery that peeps go through so much trouble to put together and then throw it open for everyone's enjoyment.

So,yeah, money would be nice - but that would really just be outsider validation as far as I'm concerned - meaning so non SLers wouldn't look at me and shake their heads in confusion...

I should slap myself on the wrist for sharing my secrets...but...

Something that really works for me is search to search tactics. If I am trying to sell my new Nikon SL100 camera, I go into 'search' and do a search for photography, photographers, cameras, machinima, digital...all the key words that go with camera interest.

I go through EVERY single entry, people, groups, places...and if their profile fits the bill, I will send them an IM describing my new product.

If you lack good communication or writing skills, or your product doesn't match their needs at all...you will be thought of as a spamming annoyance. However, I've yet to get one person that minded--most are like, "How did you get my name" And I say, "I searched for photographers." And they say, "Oh...sweet."

I get at least half of my general business by search tactics.

ps. not that this was a total secret...I'm assuming some of you follow this hunt and gather marketing strategy?

I re-sell other people's creations, so I guess I'm kind of a 'poser'. Whatev....anyway:

After several months of scratchin along and doing a bit of marketing I now make enough to support my SL shopping addiction. (lindens) I am actively learning to create original content though, so maybe next year this time I will make enough USD to cover the rent where my shop is located. *shrugs*

But at the risk of being redundant, I have to say what so many others have already said: for me, it's about the fun of it - being creative, meeting the customers, that thrill when one of my original creations sold for the first time...just the sheer fun of it. I never went in expecting or hoping to make lots of moola. When it gets to be a pain, I'll quit.

Just my 2 cents

/me smiles and shrugs

I do make real $$$......but it all goes back into SL. I never looked at it as a way to supplament my RL income...it's all about fun and exploring to me......and any extra L's I make in-world due to my shop is just sort of like a happy little boost that allows me to play more. It's never enough so far to cover my account and tier costs.
At the moment sales are way down and I'm hearing from folks that it's that way all over SL so I'm not worried about....I'll continue to work on new creations....learn, and have fun. If it ever turned into a serious money making gig....chances are it would become too much like a RL job and I'd grow to resent it anyway....so I keep it in perspective. SL is my guilty pleasure.....my indulgence, and I like it that way.

I make a net profit in SL every month, and have been doing so for over a year. Most of the time I make a net profit every single week. Not enough to quit my day job, by a long shot. But enough that it covers all my SL expenses for all my accounts, and still leaves me some USD that I can save up for some real world purchases. In the last year, the only time I have bought L$ was to get some quick cash to buy a parcel of Private Island land. And I earned enough in the next two weeks to cash out and pay that purchase back.

When I came to SL, I didn't want to spend much money to play here. I was willing to pay for an initial fund of L$ to get me started, but I hoped to earn that back eventually. I did, after about 5 months.

I learned to make T-shirts, and started selling them. Eventually I was making several kinds of clothes, and doing a bit better than breaking even. But I still wasn't earning enough to cash anything out into US$. Just enough to keep my main account from needing to buy any more L$, most of the time.

Then I started making and selling textures. The work I had been doing with my clothing textures, and the comments and help I freely gave on the forums drew the attention of a merchant who offered me store space to sell texture bundles, in exchange for a profit split. Seemed like a good deal to me, and it was. My texture sales at TRU now earn me enough L$ each week and each day to completely eclipse my clothing sales, and cover all my in-world expenses, including tier on a large parcel of private island land, and still leaves enough each month to cash a little out.

Then I was asked to make custom building textures. I'd been learning to build, and when I displayed the textures for the client on a building I had made myself, he hired me to build for him. That grew into Fox and Ground Construction Company, where I now offer full-sim and multi-sim building, terraforming and landscaping services. When I get those jobs, almost all of what I earn gets cashed out as US Dollars. I do almost no advertizing for Fox and Ground. People come to me and offer me huge jobs, bacause they have seen what I can do.

The common thread through all of this is that I spent a lot of time and effort perfecting my skills in a variety of areas that SL residents value. Textures, building, scripting, terraforming... I am always trying to learn something new.

I do it because I love creating things. I love the "WOW!" reactiosn that I get from my customers, when they see their dreams and desires brought to life by me. And because it pays for my playtime in SL.

But I don't "Do it for the money". I spend 20 to 30 hours a week creating things for SL. That is on top of working a 40-hour week in a real world job, unrelated to SL, that pays my real world bills. The cash that I actually bring home from SL isn't close to what I would earn if I spent 20 hours a week flipping burgers in a minimum-wage real job. But it's work I *enjoy*, and I can stay at home and still interact with my family.

Oh, and I've always been a Basic Member, never Premium.

Some hard facts:

Less than 2% of the people who play SL make a net profit in any given month.

Few of that 2% can make a net profit EVERY month.

Less than 500 people, out of the MILLIONS who have Second Life accounts, make anything close to a Real-World working wage form what they do in SL. I certainly don't, nor do I think I could.

Can you make money here? Yes, with hard work, and if you love what you're doing and are willing to spend hours and hours perfecting your skills and your products.

Can you make a living just working in the virtual world? As in, pay for all of your rent and groceries in the real world? Very few do, but it is possible.

Yet more than 98% will NOT make a net profit here. Think about that.

I match my RL paycheck every week with my SL income.

I think the trick to making money is finding your niche. There is no way I could make money off buying and selling land because I'm completely aloof and you need to actually be aware of what's going on for that kind of thing.

I only know about selling clothing and junk and even that I'm not the best at. I tried more I could make more, but I'm pretty comfortable where I am.

But for those who do the store thing you should try the following:
1) Advertise: Forum posting, Classifieds, bloggers, SL magazines

2) Update often. Don't be stagnant. This way people might be standing around like hrmm I wonder if so&so made new stuff. If they keep going back to find nothing new then eventually they'll stop coming back.

3)Have many locations in areas that fit your style but don't have the same stores that you have in other areas. The logic is you don't want your same old customers, you want new customers who wouldn't have though to look at your shop until they came to look at a store they already know and love.

4) Customer Service- If you're awesome at it, then people will tell their friends. if you suck at it, well.. it all depends on how nice you stuff is.
If you make awesome items you could punctuate your sentences with "You're an a$$hole" and people would still buy from you. But it's better to be nice.


Personally, I don't really practice what I preach and I still make money. I'm nice to customers when they aren't darwin award nominees and I'll advertise if my friend say.. makes the ad and submits it for me and pretty much does all the work. But I'm trying to keep SL a hobby and not a chore. There are people who work really hard with their shops and they make loads of cash.


Micheal Bigwig: Watch your branding. Nikon might come to SL.

Micheal, with all due respect ...

I would really like to see fewer people doing this, not more. I absolutely abhor getting unsolicited messages about products and services. Worse yet, group spam. Despite being able to make some sales this way, I think this puts you, and your company, in a negative light. I strongly recommend that people do not use this tactic.

One further question for you ...

You said that the name of your product is "Nikon SL100." Have you obtained permission from Nikon to use their brand on your products? If so, congratulations. If not, then you are employing a second marketing technique that I highly recommend people avoid.

OK, I understand...believe me I do. But truuuuust me on this, if you do it properly, form-fit your schpeel to the potential customer or client, they never are offended.

Like I said, I've only had people literally thanking me for letting them know about a new product...perhaps it's becuase my products are more of a rare commodity (high quality cameras and film equipment). And I only send these out when I create something I know they'll love..

And the whole time, I'm creating a pool of citizens that I know will love a particular product or not...depending on whether they responded, thanked me, asked for a LM, or purchased a product...I keep track of ALL that stuff in their profile notes.

I never get, "Don't spam me..."

Maybe I'm in a niche market, and my products are unique enough that people appreciate my notices...*shrugs*

re: branding --If and when Nikon comes to me with a cease and desist, I already have custom logos to replace them with on the spot. I'm not worried.

I agree with this. I would add, your niche does not need to be devoid of competition. You don't want to jump into a saturated market, but having competition going in means that there is already mature demand for the product or service just waiting for you to tap into.

I would have three tips for approaching a niche market ...

First, find a niche that you really enjoy - something that interests you and excites you. If you go into this purely to make money, and create a product or service that is more pain than pleasure for you, ultimately you will only achieve limited success. You can only drive yourself so hard, but if something excites you, you will always find more energy to spend on it.

Secondly, strive to be the best in your class - if not in all the features of your product or service, at least in some areas. Know why you are better than your competition, and be sure your customers hear about that. Constantly watch your competition and make improvements to your product to stay ahead of them. A healthy respect for those chasing you will drive the evolution of your business and keep you growing.

Thirdly, involve yourself in the community that uses or appreciates your product niche. If you are truly excited about your niche, this will come naturally. People will often learn about your products as they meet you, or if they check your profile from a distance. Your reputation within the community will augment your marketing and help define your product or service. And getting involved with the people that use your product will give you insight into what they want and alert you to new competition.

I have employed these three techniques in my own business and I do very little traditional marketing.

For me, selecting a niche that I would enjoy and be excited about was easy. Music, and the piano are my life's passion. This gave me the vision and energy to spend as much time as necessary to build a piano that is the best in it's class, and to keep making improvements so that I do not lose that edge. Spending a lot of time at live music events, enjoying the friendship of many musicians, and listening carefully to my customers in my store and in their homes, keeps my finger on the pulse of my niche and helps me plan future enhancements.

I won't say how much money I am making in Second Life, except to say that I am doing very well. You see, I never really set out to make significant money in Second Life. My success here has been based entirely on these principles: love what you do, strive to be the best, and involve yourself in the community.

It works for me

Using somebody else's brand name on your products is wrong, and a clear violation of trademark law, even if you don't get caught. You are deliberately leveraging the name and reputation of another business to promote your own.

Michael, I'd be willing to bet that your customers are buying your cameras because they are a high quality product and not because they have the Nikon name. Am I right? I think you would find it much more fulfilling to replace that logo now, and build your own brand name in Second Life.

Yes... I won't get into details or numbers but I make more in SL than my husband does working a full time above average paying job

Michael, I think your offer are very kind and cute. I hope you don't mind that I give one in return. What you made is very generous, that I'm inspired to even invite my friends to each return you something you should know about.


=)

Persephone's got some great advice on how to get ahead.

I do make money here; money that some might consider significant.

But does it matter if I do or not? I'd be on the grid regardless.

Yes people do make money here but if you look at the SL Economic Statistics

http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php

The number of people making more then pocket change is realtively small.

These statistics do not reflect income that is paid outside of SL such as renters who pay landlords via PayPal.

I don't make any real money, but I do make a lot of pretend money.

Yes I do but there are a few things as a creator you HAVE to count on
like LL screwing things up with every update count on it everytime
SL crashing and things getting lost or distroyed count on it every week
pretty much count on SL being totally unstable and LL simpley not giveing a damn and make sure you have that in your plan and you can make a nice net profit in USD

I spend about 60 hours per month minimum.

So I'm making like 2 dollars an hour

Please dont spread false information around. lol

I could be wrong, but I don`t think they would be obligated to send you a cease and desist notice. They may just strike.

Deleted accidental double post.

Yes you can make money... and enough to pay real life bills if you work at it... BUT

I gotta agree with the majority on this one... never never attempt to make money in SL as a means of making a real life income. I learned a lesson the hard way on that one. If you don't WANT to spend time creating and selling, for the sheer fun of doing so, then don't bother, because you won't ever be successful.

I started off selling in SL because 1.) I love playing in photoshop and 2.) I wanted to make a little extra $L to spend myself, 3.) creating and starting a brand/business seemed like a fun project.

after a month or two I started making enough to pay my premium and land every month, which was very exciting for me. My sales kept going up, and before too long I was making enough to pay real life rent on my apartment. I am a poor college student, so let me tell you that is a HUGE deal for me.

Then I had 2 bad months in a row (compared to the "good" money I was making). The money I was "expecting" didn't come in. Made me very disapointed til something finally clicked in my head... I didn't start a buisness in SL to pay my real life rent. I started 'cause I enjoyed it and wanted spending money for SL....which I have plenty of now. So I will never again start trying to figure in SL income for my real life expenses.

I use to have a job selling shoes on commission .. some months were REALLY good others were awful. Very stressful. Expecting RL income in SL will give you that same kind of stress.

Start a business only if you really enjoy creating and the "game" of having a business. If you make a few bucks then hey, you got some extra money to spend at the bars on beer and vodka. not necessarily together. yum.

Good post, Rezza.

If you start up a business in SL keep in mind youre not working for an employer and given a fixed income. Youre working for yourself and you make what you make. Off of SL profits, You could make $5,000RL one month, and $1,000RL the next.

Never EXPECT to make this month what youve made last month, or what have you. If you are living in RL off of SL profits, as some people do, always keep a large sum of money in your savings incase the game, or your sl business, goes byebye and you need to get resituated in RL.

Dont forget to pay taxes as well if you make enough to where you need to.

Correct, and thats our market. SL for us isn't about the micro-economy as a whole, it's about exposure. RL companies here in SL look for what is 'tradable/transportable' in RL in various ways.
For instance, if you are a builder, use SL as a portfolio of your designs, use the uniquness and cheapness of SL to show the Real World your abilities. You do not need the degrees required in RL, but you may gain say a scholarship, or a developer who may use your designs as a tool when presenting their prospectus to investors and or clients. This is already being done in SL and I have certainly been doing this in VR environments for the past 10+ years, whats appealing about SL is Cost, ease of making changes, methods of deploying/advertising your skills.
Design a unique theme for a chain of say Bars/Pubs, sell that design concept to a RL brewery chain, could earn you some serious money.
Use SL to produce childrens story books, capture that on movie/2d media and present that to a publisher.. the list goes on and is only the tip of the iceberg.

Your World, Your Imagination.... enough said.

Persephone Milk - wise words from a beautiful lady
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Rezza Pixel - agree, if you're self employed you have to always expect the unexpected, RL or SL
......................

Sensual Casanova, I like your blog - classy colors and layout, really good job. Is this a showcase only? I don't know why mouse-over your pics shows a window with links that go to search pages for this term??? And something else - your logo says "click me to visit my blog" but it's not clickable (btw I do not know if outside links are allowed and possible here), you may want to check the URLs in the Sig too.

Good luck to you!
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AWM Mars - I think you're the only one by far that promotes the idea of a SL business that is " 'tradeable/transportable' in RL "; from what I've seen this is one of the smartest things you can do if your product allows it.

Yes I do, but keeping up and running 2 islands is expensive hobby. Still rake about 1500 usd after expenses. Not enough though to quit RL job, but Im sure when I put some more effort and structure in my SL ventures things will all go up. Only thing I'm concerned about is Lindens more and more tell us what we can and can't do... I think they mean well but...

One other thing is, when you want to sell your stuff you need to advertise. I put all items I design for sale on SLXchange.com but advertising is gonna cost you some. I pay 8990 $L every week to SLXchange.com for listings + 2000 $L for inworld classifieds.


Cheers,



Hosoi Design
Hosoi Antiques
Hosoi Estates

http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=32983&page