Thanks Again Cristiano and Eboni

Can I offer anyone a hug today to get them through the Forums?

I'm being sincere. I think hugs are important. Anyone want a hug, just let me know.

I give really good ones. It's extra though for the peck on the cheek. (cheek on the face, for those with wicked minds)

There's a difference between a give-and-take conversation, with questions asked and questions answered

and

badgering someone to death, demanding answers where an answer was already given, but not considered good enough, discounting the idea from the get-go, imparting personal motivations to everything, and in general portraying the original idea in the worst possible fashion, generally related to something derogatory about the original poster. Like "bitter." To give just one example.

That is what goes on here. And goes on all the time.

Then, to add insult to injury, after doing these things, people then accuse the original posters of having a "persecution complex."

If you don't want people to complain about being persecuted, then stop persecuting them.

coco

I'm sorry coco, but I really didn't see my question being answered. I was trying hard to understand this new thing. I can't see wanting to know how someone would qualify to be on the new grid differs from the Cabinhead limitations that you objected to.

I'm sorry if this is like badgering.

No, I don't Catherine. A reply would entail the person responding to the statements someone makes, and the questions they have. I never ever expect that from you, so I am rarely disappointed. You can't be disappointed when you expect nothing.

I asked about funding. It is my business if one group gets themselves a grid, with Linden sponsorship, which is what Cat was asking for. She edited her thread starting post to reflect otherwise. Originally, she said using her sim was not the answer, she wanted LL to go to assist with the creation of a seperate grid. I suggested the private island continent (Claire and Cat both have their own sims - why not?) and was told that would be like being in prison. How did that answer my questions of where the money for this very nebulous idea was to come from? It didn't, and to be honest, the responses from both you and Cat were combative and shrill.

And...

You were told that I would continue to pay for my server and Clair for hers and we would allow ppl to live there. More so Andrew Linden answered those questions in great detail also.

I have been expecting you Nolan.

Badgering someone to death? Hyperbole much, Cocoanut? Read my posts - I was not even opposed to Catherine's idea, I didn't degrade it. I asked where RL commerce was actually infringing in SL, and what she hoped to avoid. No where in the entire thread is that answered - and I am not the only one who asked. The only injury we ever hear about is your own, ad nauseum, in thread after thread. If you don't want people to refer to your persecution complex, then quit playing the role of martyr for all it is worth.

God I just love being talked about in the 3rd person yet again.

/end sarcasm

Caught between Catherine and Cocoa. Enjoy, Cristiano!

~Ulrika~

And what did I say when I finally got those answers? I wished you well on your endeavor, prior to that you called my questions attacks, and avoided the funding and staffing issue of a separate grid.

You didn't offer up your sim until much later - and no - I haven't missed your edit in your first post of that that thread where you added in the offer of your sim. You spent half that thread yelling at me for suggesting you do just that - offer your own sims - only to go back and edit your thread starter to make it look like that had been the case all along.

I also asked how you would gate this "grid" or continent - never got an answer to that either. All I got, was more accusations.

April asked you what I thought were important and innocuous questions, and you even got huffy with her.

If you're going to post about ideas that could have an effect on other players in general, be prepared for questions. If you cannot answer without puffing your chests out, I don't know what to tell you, other than that by doing so, you persecute yourself, and are caged in a prison of your own design.

You know, you and others can talk about persecution complexes and professional victims and all that till the cows come home, and that will never make it true.

Everybody who knows me irl and in other games knows for a fact that none of it is true.

The truth is, these forums are not welcoming to everyone and their ideas. People get sterotyped and marginalized because of it. This "persecution complex" is one such example. Here's how it's done: Several run the poster who had the idea into a corner. Then, when that poster tries to defend him/herself against a number of others, the others call that person all KINDS of horrible things. Including "bitter." Or "professional victim." Or a "martyr."

You don't realize it, but this sort of thing isn't lost on people who read the forums but don't comment.

What I want is not to be a martyr. What I want is civil forums, where people don't gang up on other players.

Anyone can read the original thread and understand that there is nothing wrong with Catherine's proposition, and SOME of us were enjoying it, whether or not we agreed with it. Then all the pounding and badgering starts. Is that helpful? No. Only in getting the thread locked.

Anyone reading it could see where Catherine answered the question, then I answered it, and then a Linden came along and answered it.

These forums are changing, and they will change more. No matter how some may try, you can't keep a stranglehold on forum thought forever, running off those you don't like.

The game is growing, and that will be your worst enemy, not me, and not Catherine.

coco

You know, it'd almost be funny if it wasn't just so damn sad. There are people here (and note how carefully I'm not mentioning any names or quoting anyone - cause my mama didn't raise no fool) who absolutely tingle when they see that certain people have posted. Then think to themselves, "Oh goodie, now let's see how I can make this person look stupid or bad, and make myself look OH so intelligent and OH so witty and thought-provoking." And really, there's not even a need to mention names anyway - cause ya'll know who you are. And guess what - the rest of the forum people do, too.

This occurrence isn't unique to these forums, but by far, it happens more here than any other set of forums I've participated in, and believe me, that's been a lot. So, be proud of yourselves, cause you truly are "special" ... and isn't that what you long for, after all?

Right, stereotypes like, "FIC", "tekki-wiki", "fuck you hedonists", "scripterati", etc., etc.

Funny that when the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly, it's not ok...

Please tell me what I did wrong, if you don't want to post it here, PM me. I don't see how my questions were wrong or badgering.

On the subject of tingling, I absolutely tingle as I wait to see if a new script I wrote will compile properly.

Scripting is hard. :0

If we are all so wrong, then help us, don't just yell at us. I don't think I'm special. Maybe we're slow and it takes us longer to catch on. Maybe we don't have the vision you have. Or they psychic abilities that others do to understand these things. I just want to understand all the ramifications of a project before I sign up. As it stands now, even though I am a real life artist, I am no longer welcomed to what might just be the next great thing in SL. Just because I wanted to know what I was getting myself into.

How to suceed in these forums:

Step one: Make the victem think you realy "care" about what ever topic they are bringing up.
Step two: Get you and your friends to bait the victem
Step three: Bring up more old shit till you strike a nerve.
Step four: IM your fourm comrads alert them to the nasty "free thinker" trying to invade "our forum"
Step five: Start insulting your victem.
Step Six: Start talking about their "mental issues"
Step Seven: Dredge up old shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Step Eight: Start posting pictures of Pie
Step Nine; Repeat steps 3,5,7
Step Ten: start making stupid remarks that egg the bad vibes on.
Step: 12 insist that the victem answer you until your satisfied (hehe but you never are that realy pisses them off)
Step 13: Hand out popcorn to your buddies
Step 14: IM all enemies of this person and let them know that "its on" and give them the forum shortcut just to be nice.
Step 15: abuse report anything at all that you find offensive ANYTHING.
Step 16: Repeat steps 1,2,5,7,9,and 15
Step 17: If its realy not going in your favor pretend to make friends with the victem.
Step 18: Start posting links to threads where you have been victorious in this effort before.

You know you are a forum dickhead when you get Jeska to lock it down tight. Bravo

/end sarcasm

This would take a concerted effort among all the posters. We would have together at the moment the post was made and decide to do that.

Do you really think people do that? I was really interested in this idea, I can't seem to express this enough.

Am I really naive in thinking that we are all individuals who have individual concerns? I can't see this thing you are seeing.

I failed to see all the steps being taken. You were the only one to show links to other things.

I'm really sorry this is all so hard on you.

I see what your talking about and really care about the topic..


But I dont have any friends


See picture 1


Comrads is just a fancy word for friends! CRIES



But can't we all be friends?


Ohhh, gossip..


Uhm, CATHERINE! You can't decide whether to use capital letters for the numbers on your steps! So I sHaLl StArT tYpInG lIkE tHiS


See pictures 2, this I can do!


I don't wanna, I already did those..


You all suck! I hate you! TROLL



I've only got one question, what the heck happened to step 11?

See picture 3, but I don't have any damn friends!


Can't I just give it to my enemies? they are plentyful *evil laugh*


Pictures of Pie and Popcorn... OK!


What have I told you about repeating steps?


I really don't like argueing, lets all be friends!


But they don't exist!


Wait wait! that wasn't the deal!

11 is the symbol of the forked tongue that is capitalism and commercialism. I wouldn't use it either.

lol, but its such an easy times table!

I posted a simular list as the one above about a year ago. Coco is right the forums are changing slowly but surly as the world grows. I hope I see someone able to post a provocitive idea or opinion on these forums that is not against what appears to be the majority. Only 10% of SL residents read the fourms or did last time I asked. I know you asked Clair some questions and your waiting to hear back from her. Maybe a PM would connect you two. Dunno I'm not Clair. I have been here since beta this is how the fourms have always been. Suddenly tho it seems more ppl are speaking as individuals, which is realy fantastic. So speak up April

I know you are interested in our ideas feel free to PM me too ok I thought I covered the gambit as far as just presenting the idea to the community.

Hugz

Cat

Well if you aren't a professional victim in RL, then why do 75% of your threads refer to some wrong done against you, Cocoanut, honestly?



Here's how the perscution act is done: start a thread with some vague comments, or sometimes even a direct attack thread masked as a topic of discussion (ie...Bedazzle members are cheap for showing nudity becomes a full on attack against the members of the group because the poster is scared of nudity). A discussion ensues, often times questions are asked and logic is applied. As soon as the poster can't provide an answer, then start to say people are attacking them. Swear, then cry foul and act indignant, then obsfucate for awhile until you can't hold your ground anymore and then whip out some kind of sympathy card. It is an oft repeated pattern over the past 2 years that many people have observed from the same poster.

It was fine when the stereotyping and marginalization was only commentary from someone else, then you didn't say a word about it and in fact tacitly approved. Your hypocrisy there is duly noted. Catherine was not "backed into a corner". Here is a neat thing she could have done: ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. You don't realize it, but behavior like yours and Catherine's is not lost upon people who read the forums but don't comment, either. If you want to speak for the silent masses, realize it goes both ways, and how laughable it is for you to do so.



If you don't want to be a martyr, then quit playing one on television. Here you are with the gang/lynch mob rhetoric yet again. Where was Catherine ganged up on? She is asking Linden Lab to create an entire new grid -something that affects all players, and everyone has the right to speak up, not just those who were "enjoying her thread". As I said, I wasn't even opposed to the idea - I did not understand why it required a new grid, as everything she was asking for in her vague posts were possible with private islands on the grid now.



Where did she answer the question of where RL commerce is infringing on SL. Where are the billboards of RL products, where are the cars made by Chrysler and the Nike store? Please point out where "anyone reading the thread can see Catherine answered the question". There were many questions asked - please point out where EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS ANSWERED. Again, you and Catherine both seem incapable of any dissent on your opinions at all - which is very sad. If it isn't just "HUGS LOVE YOU HAVE SOME CHOCOLATE LOLZ" then you are badgered and malgined.



Here you are with your black and white hyperbole again. I haven't tried to run off anyone, or consider anyone my enemy. You are the one who always describes things in such extremes. If you are going to participate in a forum, then be prepared to have a discussion. Asking questions about someone's idea is not defaming them. Please point to a single disrespectful question that I asked her. Second Life is not a game, and it has been growing the entire time - it didn't suddenly start growing just because you deigned to show up.

Omg Lol quick someone get me that chart LOL

Nolan, since I wasn't the author of those terms, I don't see how you figure the shoe is now on the other foot. And though I may have agreed in general with the notion of many of those terms as being perfectly descriptive of some players in SL, I have not applied any of them to any of you in specific.

I . . . have not . . . applied . . . any of these terms . . . which I didn't invent . . . to . . . any . . . one . . . of . . . you.

Yet, I have plenty of far worse terms applied to my person, and so does Catherine. That is what needs to stop. Please - call me a techi-wiki. That would be a compliment, as I know nothing about scripting. As for f-U hedonist, well, I'm not one, but I know plenty in the game. As for FIC, I came into this game as a member of that.

It would be illuminating if I ever took the time to go back through all these threads, to include all the very personal attacks lobbed at me, and presented them in a list to you.

Not only have I never called you a tekki-wiki, I have never called you a martyr. Or a perpetual victim. Or a troll. Or an alt. Or a wannabe troll. Or a sycophant. Personally. I've been called all of these, and more, personally. And in this very thread.

Then I see others called the same things. Either in short words - like bitter (which had no freakin business being in that thread), or just more general things, but the INDIVIDUAL is being called that.

That's what I would like to see no longer go on here. No more of the personal attacks and insults. Just that alone would help so much. I think part of the problem is the TOS just really doesn't address that - it lets people call each other names, in my reading of it.

That leaves people who will call names and people who won't, each doing their own thing.

What is really unfair is for those doing the personal name-calling to then add insult to injury by telling the person responding that they are just wanting to feel sorry for themselves.

If we could get rid of the name calling, just that, we would be lots better off.

coco