Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Goodbye, until age verification returns...

Ethen Till
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 70
06-28-2006 08:09
From: Ceera Murakami
To make this perfectly clear, Starchaser wasn't the least bit worried about himself boffing some random kid who was faking being an adult. He had a mate here, and hardly ever did anything more than a kiss with anyone but her. What he was worried about was some kid watching him and his mate in SL enjoying each other's company in the so-called 'privacy' of their own home, and he and his mate being caught in a legal mess because somebody's kid got caught by mommy playing voyeur on a 'peep show' that was never intended to be between anyone but Star and his mate!

If kids can get in, and can't be kept out, what is to prevent a scene like that? How can you possibly avoid it, short of owning a whole sim as a private island and locking everyone else out? Parcel bans won't stop someone from sitting some distance away, completely unknown to the couple being spied on. That is why he no longer felt safe. It's one thing if a virtual 'peeping tom' is an adult. But when it might be a kid with parents willing to sue anyone they percieved as 'corrupting' their precious child? Even if it could be proven that he in no way was aware of the child's presence, and that the child lied about their age to get there, that risk was more than he was willing to take.


there is some adults that think that porn and stuff doesn't matter for teenaged people.. and there is adults that have kids that bring their own childs into SL main grid. I know many people that are RL familys and group together in SL to see and talk to eachother, since SL is so advanced... the limits are annoying to familys that want to see each other and can't do that.. and want to have a house and make it their own which many 3D worlds don't do... heh

I don't blame those families I blame the limits for those familys they do have a right to be on the same grid..
Ethen Till
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 70
06-28-2006 08:14
From: Ceera Murakami
Lina, before they changed registration, if a child was caught on the main grid, or an adult on the teen grid, Linden Labs had some sort of real-world identity to act on to keep them out. They could ban the card and not allow it to be re-used. They could check to see who was supposed to be on that card, and notify mommy and daddy where their precocious kid was hanging out. They could send the cops after the creep that was soliciting kids on the teen grid.

Now? They get banned, and come right back in.

The teen grid isn't safe from adult preditors, and the adult grid isn't safe from kids posing as adults. There is no more personal responsibility involved. There is no risk involved for lying. If they get caught, they just make a new account. THAT creeps me out, big time.

I will agree that before the change, we were still largely just trusting whatever birthdate the account holder offered. But before the change, there was something LL could do about it if they lied or if they broke the TOS. I really do not believe they can do anything effective to enforce the age policies now. And I fear that to be a lawsuit waiting to happen, and a potential disaster for some poor kids out there who are sure to try to meet with some creep in RL, and get seriously hurt, FOR REAL.


there are teenagers that are smart to think to not give any DEEP personal info to anyone that wants it. If not, they shouldn't even be on SL at all even the teen gird. for their own safety and well being.
Ethen Till
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 70
06-28-2006 08:16
From: Ethen Till
there is some adults that think that porn and stuff doesn't matter for teenaged people.. and there is adults that have kids that bring their own childs into SL main grid. I know many people that are RL familys and group together in SL to see and talk to eachother, since SL is so advanced... the limits are annoying to familys that want to see each other and can't do that.. and want to have a house and make it their own which many 3D worlds don't do... heh

I don't blame those families I blame the limits for those familys they do have a right to be on the same grid..


If LL made more of a family or neutral ground gird that made clear to all Teenagers or adults that enter.. there are suckos, but there are most adults that like to help teenagers or hang out as a friend no more
Ethen Till
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 70
06-28-2006 08:27
From: Rakorneth Rezillo
Ok, I've been looking at this, and never have you brought up the kids that hate that they're kids. I ran into a kid that said he wasn't in the teen grid because he was sick of the way teens act on xbox live. I must agree, it is because of teens that Halo 2 has been destroyed, but enough about that.

Legally, I dont think anything is about to happen. Teens are smart, if in a stupid way, and they could easily fake their age and name. An account is traceable to a credit card, but who is to say that the parents would even care if they were notified? I've talked to kids claiming to be 7 on Xbox Live playing Conker: Live and Reloaded, and I could hear their parents yelling at them in the background. (BTW, Conker: Live and Reloaded is one of the more violent and disturbing games, if you dont know.)

I want to end this stupidity, so... JUST BE GLAD YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM! I have to mute all of them on Xbox Live because I cant stand their voices. In SL at least you can't tell, and they dont seem to be too annoying like in some other games. So consider it a blessing, as someone to talk to. And be glad they have something to do other that running around yanking the hood ornament off your car or egging your house or shooting your dog with red paintballs.

All in all, it might be a good thing...


yea there are those teens that have anger management issues or problems that make them suckos as well.. like adults you can't tell how they are going to act unless you get to know them.

Yea I don't any games that let you use your voice, most of the time people don't think before they say something. But there are people (teens and adults) that act beond their years with alots of respect to other people.. though we think were protecting or are we just throwing them into something that is much worse, they not protected in teen gird nor the adult, sounds like they shouldn't be in SL at all... maybe they are being fully smart and going to the adult grid and staying away form the XBox Live Monsters or something.

Well I been in many 3D worlds that you don't know who is on the other side of the avatar, just what they say, do and react to whats around them, and I got to know alot of Teens(they had a photo of themselfs) that were very smart and wited.. not like what we are talking about

technacly I miss those people.
Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
06-28-2006 08:29
one down...
Faye Kawabata
Registered User
Join date: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Underage Avatar
06-28-2006 10:59
If you encounter an underage avatar and report it to LiveHelp, you get a very quick response from SL, in my experience. I had a youth annoying a friend of mine who did not know what to do, so she TPed me. The youth made no secret of his age (16). I went to LiveHelp. LiveHelp sent the Linden lady in charge of the teen grid almost immediately. The youth vanished from FIND and is now doubtless happily ensconced on the teen grid with fellow youths who will be amused and amazed at his antics.

Perhaps my experience was the exception. I do not know. I do know I was highly pleased with the Linden staff that day.
Judy Brodie
Divinational Sweetie
Join date: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 138
Teens and an adult game
06-28-2006 11:15
I have been playing SL for two years and have ran into only two that were under 18.

It isn't the fact that SL is a very sexual oriented game that teens should stay out. Teens are gonna find porn type stuff no matter what if it is by magazine, phone or the local drive-in. Hell I saw a pregnant 15 year old at the mall just yesterday.

The issue isn't with sl's sex, it is with the maturity level of the players.....

Example: spying on a lot that is marked off as private by changing camera views, or bombing/gun activity for griefing, major griefing and light griefing.

But that goes for protection too. If you don't want to be spyed on or have griefing while your doing your private business then get a security system that will push them to next sim or a pet that will attack on command.
Orpheum Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 17
06-28-2006 11:20
From: Ceera Murakami
To make this perfectly clear, Starchaser wasn't the least bit worried about himself boffing some random kid who was faking being an adult. He had a mate here, and hardly ever did anything more than a kiss with anyone but her. What he was worried about was some kid watching him and his mate in SL enjoying each other's company in the so-called 'privacy' of their own home, and he and his mate being caught in a legal mess because somebody's kid got caught by mommy playing voyeur on a 'peep show' that was never intended to be between anyone but Star and his mate!

If kids can get in, and can't be kept out, what is to prevent a scene like that? How can you possibly avoid it, short of owning a whole sim as a private island and locking everyone else out?


There's a fallacy in this reasoning.

If the couple in question is behind closed doors on their own property (bought and paid for or rented, either case) then there is no liability in their laps. If a 15-year-old peeping tom snuck into your 1st Life home and hid in the closet and watched you and your partner do what comes naturally (or un, as the case may be), YOU are not in any danger of legal action against you for exposing a child to "smut."

Same goes for SL. You have no reason to believe that anyone is under age, as Linden Labs has stated that the mature grid is 18+. Someone lies to get in, i can't believe it would be you that's in trouble.
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
AGE VERIFICATION & fURRIES IN ARMS
06-28-2006 11:25
im sorry but i have to agree with the person who started this thread, and i dare Linden Labs to please address this issue.

i have been a short time resident of sl for a little over 2 months, and i have greatly enjoyed myself here. i am currently living on a Gorean sim. i for one am not happy with allowing children to be able to access this sort of adult arena. if Linden Labs sees a need to provide one then create it and leave this one to the "over 21" crowd".

since the age verification has been "relaxed" there have been more and more "griefer" attacks on adult sims, by furries(so chill out all you furries this is just one of the reasons people don't allow you onto thier sims, a few bad apples can spoil it for everyone)who use high primmed weapons designed to lag out and crash the sim.


i also await the first lawsuit to hit Linden Labs. just like myspace and any other "good idea" it will get ruined and exploited by kids, and made into another sodom and gomorrah by the pedophiles who will follow.
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
06-28-2006 11:48
From: Orpheum Apogee
There's a fallacy in this reasoning.

If the couple in question is behind closed doors on their own property (bought and paid for or rented, either case) then there is no liability in their laps. If a 15-year-old peeping tom snuck into your 1st Life home and hid in the closet and watched you and your partner do what comes naturally (or un, as the case may be), YOU are not in any danger of legal action against you for exposing a child to "smut."

Same goes for SL. You have no reason to believe that anyone is under age, as Linden Labs has stated that the mature grid is 18+. Someone lies to get in, i can't believe it would be you that's in trouble.


You may be quite correct, for the laws in your country, city and state. But laws on such matters vary wildly. Even if one is completely in the clear legally, a huge and expensive legal mess could still ensue from some apalled parent who presses a lawsuit. Personally, I wouldn't be all that certain of the legal ramifications, without obtaining counsel from an internationally certified lawyer.

Starchaser had a visually unique avatar. A winged fox with very specific wing feather coloration. Unlike the average Human SL avatar, a screen shot with him in it would be instantly recognizable as his character. He didn't want to have that image appearing on the nightly news as an example of some of the "terrible things" that some kid was exposed to while illegally playing in SL.

Personally, I rather agree with you. If the kid lied about his age to get in to the main grid, and if they presented themselves to an adult believably as another adult, then I think any legal blame for them being here falls squarely on the kid. But if that same kid comes back time and time again because Linden Labs' open registration policy allows that kid to create an infinite number of new alts, then I fear Linden Labs would also be held liable. Imagine an adult business that tried operating in a public mall, with one whole wall open to the kids in the mall, and no means of keeping the kids out of the business other than a polite "no minors" sign. Do you think they would stay in business very long? I doubt it.

The new release's change to track hardware information for the logged on client gives me at least some hope for a return to sanity. If Linden Labs were to make it clear that any account which gets banished from SL, weather for being under age or for griefing, will also result in ALL alts associated with that hardware info also being banished, as well as locking out that hardware info from creating or logging in with any new accounts, that will go a long way to restoring my peace of mind, and I think Starchaser's as well.
_____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Raavi Mann
The horse down the street
Join date: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 37
06-28-2006 12:02
From: Maggie McArdle

since the age verification has been "relaxed" there have been more and more "griefer" attacks on adult sims, by furries(so chill out all you furries this is just one of the reasons people don't allow you onto thier sims, a few bad apples can spoil it for everyone)who use high primmed weapons designed to lag out and crash the sim.

Your post wasn't filled with hatred for furs at all (end sarcasm here). But did you ever thought about the fact that _anyone_ can get a furry AV, even free? Don't judge people by their looks, will ya?
You know what's the most common way for fur-haters like you to make our (furs') life more difficult? They grab some free furry AVs (or even invest and buy some) and start causing trouble... and WE get blamed
_____________________
Raavi Arda
-=< God is real unless declared integer >=-
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
06-28-2006 12:10
"Originally Posted by Orpheum Apogee
There's a fallacy in this reasoning.

If the couple in question is behind closed doors on their own property (bought and paid for or rented, either case) then there is no liability in their laps. If a 15-year-old peeping tom snuck into your 1st Life home and hid in the closet and watched you and your partner do what comes naturally (or un, as the case may be), YOU are not in any danger of legal action against you for exposing a child to "smut."

Same goes for SL. You have no reason to believe that anyone is under age, as Linden Labs has stated that the mature grid is 18+. Someone lies to get in, i can't believe it would be you that's in trouble."



sorry is gettin used to posting inforums so if i did the quote thing wrong no bashin!! :P



all it would take is one sue happy parent who has no idea what thier kids do when they are not around. they aren't going to look at liability, all they are gonna see is thier kid watching two avi's engaged in adult activities. it won't matter that thier kid lied or scammed thier way around a ll tos. all the parent will see is an adult activity being made accessable by thier child.
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
06-28-2006 12:14
From: Raavi Mann
Your post wasn't filled with hatred for furs at all (end sarcasm here). But did you ever thought about the fact that _anyone_ can get a furry AV, even free? Don't judge people by their looks, will ya?
You know what's the most common way for fur-haters like you to make our (furs') life more difficult? They grab some free furry AVs (or even invest and buy some) and start causing trouble... and WE get blamed




my post wasn't filled with furry hatred, and im not looking for a fight. its a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avi's, and they do spoil it for those who just want to have a good time. thats not furry bashing in the future when reading posts please read the entire post before replying.

on a lighter note yayayaya!! i learned how to do the quote thingy
Osprey Therian
I want capslocklock
Join date: 6 Jul 2004
Posts: 5,049
06-29-2006 16:21
From: Maggie McArdle
its a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avi's


I've seen bazillions of griefers, but I can't recall any of them being furries. That's just my experience...
Newbie1canobe Morgan
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 6
06-29-2006 16:47
Yes its a bad situation as a club owner in mature i have to ban anyone i find out is under 18!!!
,
i had to ban one guy the other day he was one of the more mature out of the crowd and most this crowd i know from audio video chat so i know they of age lol so its just a bad situation !!
of course on the other side of the road i can spot most 98% of all kids that come in i send them a im first and talk to them and if needed :D eject them and they never come back :D since i only have 50 ban slots lol
Rakkasa Lewellen
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 43
06-29-2006 16:49
This is an interesting discussion and I'm sorry the situation has caused the OP to leave the game.

There are a lot of really hard-core, long term adult websites out there that only require a credit card for full access. I can't believe that they would still exist if there was huge liability risk associated with an underage person using their parents' credit card to access the content.

Real as it can seem - these are animated, graphic depictions of....whatever - not real people engaged in sexual activity.

It's really difficult for me to understand how anyone in SL would be more at risk of liability for allowing a person joining fraudulantly to be exposed to sexual activity than, say, Wasteland (hard core bdsm site in existence for over 5 years).

Anyway, I share a lot of the concerns about interacting inappropriately with a minor; however, I've found it's really easy to tell if someone is underage just by talking to them for awhile and throwing in references that only someone of a certain age would know. (finding out if someone is over 35 - eight track tapes ;-)

Anyway - I think the verified tag in the profile provides sufficient protection - in addition to the ability to restrict mature access for non-verified accounts.
Almarea Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 258
06-29-2006 16:51
From: Judy Brodie
The issue isn't with sl's sex, it is with the maturity level of the players.....
Then we should just acknowledge the four hundred pound gorilla in the corner:

If your problem is with griefing, you'll get a lot more leverage by locking out teenage boys and adult men than by locking out teenage boys and teenage girls!

--Allie
Shyotl Kuhr
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 105
06-29-2006 17:10
From: Maggie McArdie
i have been a short time resident of sl for a little over 2 months... i am currently living on a Gorean sim... more and more "griefer" attacks on adult sims, by furries

From: Maggie McArdle

its a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avi's

From: Osprey Therian

I've seen bazillions of griefers, but I can't recall any of them being furries. That's just my experience...

Don't even bother, Osprey. The depth behind Maggie's unarguable assertion speaks for itself. It's certainly the epitome of a well-rounded and well-developed opini--, err, fact. ;)
Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
06-29-2006 17:17
From: Osprey Therian
I've seen bazillions of griefers, but I can't recall any of them being furries. That's just my experience...


I can remember /one/, I think.

Honestly, most of the griefers I've run into were either clubrat blingmonkeys or grotesquely distorted avs you could tell were avs.

Both species are human.

Nominally, at least...
_____________________
From: Billybob Goodliffe
everyone loves phedre
(excluding chickens), its in the TOS :D
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
06-30-2006 01:01
From: Osprey Therian
I've seen bazillions of griefers, but I can't recall any of them being furries. That's just my experience...



is only going by my personal experiance on one of the Gorean sims, and my post was not meant as an attack on furries, far from it. i stand by what i said, there has been and upswing in the griefing on mature sims since the age verification has been relaxed, and they are using furry avas, this was NOT MEANT AS AN ATTACK ON FURRIES, if anything it makes it worse because now all furries are gonna catch grief(pun not intended) for the actions of a few jerks. maybe thats what i should have said. but i thought that came across in my post. again i stand by my post and will not waver. its too bad some only look at the negative in a comment and pick that out to justify thier actions or to defend others. i for one did not take the time to, download, verify my age,and abide by the rules to be firebombed by ANYONE furry mecha human or whatever(my first five minutes here i was firebombed by a mecha/furry cause i would not have cyber sex with him, in another instance i kept getting "visits" by another furry whenever my ava was naked in my apt. i since learned how to lock the door and me and the guy are cool now) so no it was not meant as an attack on furries but if that is how you wish to view it its you problem not mine.
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
06-30-2006 03:33
From: Maggie McArdle
my post wasn't filled with furry hatred, and im not looking for a fight. its a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avi's, and they do spoil it for those who just want to have a good time. thats not furry bashing in the future when reading posts please read the entire post before replying.

on a lighter note yayayaya!! i learned how to do the quote thingy


No, it is not a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avs.

Perhaps if you are not looking for a fight you might try to moderate your posts, and then you will avoid one.
_____________________
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
06-30-2006 03:37
From: Maggie McArdle
is only going by my personal experiance on one of the Gorean sims, and my post was not meant as an attack on furries, far from it.


You claim now that you were only commenting on the basis of your own personal viewpoint. And yet, you said: "It's a known fact that the majority of griefers use furry avi's" (sic)

It is always a mistake to extrapolate our own personal experience into a universal rule.
_____________________
FireFox Bancroft
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 134
06-30-2006 04:39
I just wanna chime in here and say that it is a priveledge not a right that you are able to use SL. And LL reserves the right to revoke your previledge. So stop saying "its my right <insert whatever right you think you have for playing SL>" because as far as I'm concerned its by the good graces of LL you are even still on the grid.

Do I think its my right to access SL? No, but I'm glad I have the priveledge to do so.


And Ceera, I'm glad I'm not the only fox in favor of Hardware banning, a la Punkbuster, I've been asking LL to instate this form of banning since the verification process went open. Glad to see someone else thinks the same.

I think Greifers would think twice about thier behavior before acting, since it could potentialy cost them $2000 or more to get back in.
_____________________
Iris Ophelia
Blue-Stocking Suffragette
Join date: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 138
06-30-2006 06:33
Theoretically, griefers to a gorean sim like the one Maggie lives in, which I'm assuming most of her experience is based in, may choose furry avs to add a little extra grief since typically furries aren't allowed in Gorean sims. Just a thought.
Stan Pomeray
Starchy Sturgess
Join date: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 205
06-30-2006 06:56
From: FireFox Bancroft
I just wanna chime in here and say that it is a priveledge not a right that you are able to use SL. And LL reserves the right to revoke your previledge.


People are very keen on bandying the word "privilege" around aren't they?

I really struggle with the concept of it being a "privilege" to use SL.

It's no more a "privilege" to use SL than it is to use Google, MSN, Wikipaedia, or anything else that is internet based and open to anyone. You just load it up and use it.

Yes its true that LL reserves the right to disallow you from playing SL, but that doesn't make it a "privilege" to use SL either.

By definition, it IS your right to access SL (provided you have the necessary equipment and internet connection to be able to do it). Quite clearly it isn't anyone's right to do things that break the terms of service, but simply accessing SL? Yes, its there, it exists, you can access it, much like the internet itself. Why is not your right to be able to do so?
1 2 3