Goodbye, until age verification returns...

I don't wish to be on this train when it collides headlong into a swarm of hungry lawers. So I am getting off now, thank you.

After giving it much consideration, I have decided to leave SL until they re-instate some form of age verification, or at least until they give ALL of us, landholders and otherwise, tools that will allow us to identify and exclude all contact with any account that hasn't agreed to verify their age and identity. So, given the current LL policy on registration and their responses to recent features votes and complaint posts, it is likely I won't ever be coming back... *sigh*

The reason is simple. Legal liability. I do not wish to risk being involved, even accidentally, in a lawsuit over minors engaging in adult activities. Since Linden Labs insists on allowing unvalidated access, I have no way of knowing if the new person that just walked into the club or other location that I am in is of legal age, or a minor. Even if I, personally, refrain from any potential inappropriate behaviors, interacting with a minor in SL could be seen as encouraging them. And even if I identify a minor and get them ejected from SL, they can be back minutes later with a new identity. That makes a situation that is just too paranoid for me to relax in. I don't want to be afraid of every stranger that I meet in SL. I don't want to have to mistrust everyone with a new account.

Short of remaining isolated on my home parcel, with everyone I don't know being banned from entry, I can't see how I can avoid being present, eventually, where a minor is involved in activities that are inappropriate for minors. When the inevitable lawsuits hit, I don't want to be anywhere near SL.

I have given virtually all my Lindens and transferrable goods to friends who have elected to remain in-world. I will keep an eye on the forums, in the forlorn hope that Linden Labs will see the light of reason. Other than that, I'll probably only log in once per week, to collect my stipend and transfer any money that my vendor sales have earned to my friends, so someone at least benefits from what I no longer feel safe enjoying. My vending locations are prepaid for the next month or two. If this hasn't cleared up by then, those locations will close, and Star Studios products will only be available on SL Boutique.

To my dear friends in SL, good bye for now. I hope and pray you don't get entangled in the legal mess that I fear is soon to descend upon Linden Labs and SL. Those who care for me know the other realms to find me in. Farewell.

I dunno, maybe some actual lawyers could chime in here, but I can't fathom any possible way that Linden Lab's subscribers could be in any way named in such a lawsuit. Whether or not they make it possible for minors to get in or not is not our fault. May be our problem, at the moment, but it's not our fault. We signed up to what was promised to us as an adult environment, if something happens with a minor then it was Linden Lab's failure to live up to their end of the bargain, not ours.

Now, if you engage in activity with someone you KNOW is a minor, that's something else.

Minors are just like aliens, they have always been with us, but we didn´t know.

If not lawsuits, there will be people arrested for this.

It's happened on MySpace, and will likely happen here, too.

I'm afraid you're mistaken, there is no less age verification now than there ever was.

As a test, I created an account earlier today and was rightly asked my age. I stated it, and as an adult was given a basic account in Second Life.

There has never been any other age verification process in Second Life.


I'm sorry you feel unsafe in such a state, though. :/

Yay for the utter uslessness of the teen grid =/

I mean really, whats the point....don't get me wrong, I'd rather a bunch of snot-nozed MySpace-whoring, bad-music listening, penis-gun toting morons be confined to their respective little box of grid-rot.

Heh, on a side note, it seems the lindens aren't giving notice to reports I've sent in of admitted teenagers (as young as 14)...oh well, better they learn about furry doms and the seventeen ways you can please a horse-person in a latex body suit here and not on their own in the streets...=|, not.

Thanks for using us, furs, as the "everything that is morally wrong"...
If that wasn't intended - sorry. I'm on the edge of my nerves... in fact crossed that edge long ago already. Blame Linden Labs

Well, my opinions aside, I could have very well done a little Gorean bashing, but thats beside the topic. And no it wasn't intended, I know what you mean about your nerves, we're all a frustrated and on edge

LOL

OK, so how about we agree on "the really morally wrong things" without naming them?

Why dont linden labs put in a reply on this, are they scared, i doubt, as a matter of fact LL couldnt care less about abuse reports for a second. You know wehre those go, right down the shoot. So stop complaing about it because, one- If linden labs is sued for the accesiblity of minors being on the mature grid, and partaking in inapropriate activities what is going to happen, minors are going to get in trouble and LL is to a certain extent. You shouldnt even be worried about it. SL is to have fun not to worry about it. If your scared then get a clue, STOP BONING OFF TO RANDOM PEOPLE. Build or script or what not and stop being a little horny bastard all the time. Excuse me for being vulgar like that but lets get the idea people. just STOP. second well there is no second the first one was all i had to say. and if you skipped the first one just to read the second one then go back and read the first one, and if you dont get it read it again until you do.

Let me apologize in advance for using... harsh wording but I can't handle it anymore...

Tyler... BULLSHIT!!!

We come to Second Life to experience TOTAL FREEDOM without fear. We want to explore possibilities and things that would not happen in real life. And yes, that also means "boning off to random people" as you put it. That is what we came here for.
Some come here to explore, others to script, others to gamble and others for sex and you can NOT deny ANY of these groups entry for whatever reason. Why? Because it's discrimination. Think before you type

That was a great post, Starchaser... I fully agree with you. And will quit if it gets even worse.

i'd also like to state another big issue is now accounts can't be restricted because you can't ban based on credit card or cell phone number... nothing is needed. So someone could easily recreate an account. Hell, they don't even verify email addresses.

Yes yyou can always lie about your age, but I think there needs to be a disclaimer like porn sites have for being 18+, that would remove all liability from Linden and the residents of SL because the minor passed the contract claiming he/she was 18+. That added and a credit card required would help a lot.

Oh how about SL just goes back to the way it was before where it required a $10 payment. At least the little brat would have to steal from his mom or lie to her to get a credit card.

AND YAY FOR FURS! lol

About 2 weeks ago, I was at a club on a mature sim... a guy started talking to me.. it was nothing "adult" just chit chat about music... in our IM he confessed to me that he is only 15 and lied to get the account, then he asked me not to say anything to anyone because he enjoys being on the adult grid. I am an officer at a MATURE club, and my 1st thought was " if this kid comes here & I know how old he is and I let him stay.. there is something really wrong with me" So I added him to the security system, copied and pasted our conversation and sent it to LL.... I got the standard form letter back saying the issue had been resloved...umm... that kid is still playing.

Now I know that he isn`t the only kid to get on the grid, I would be foolish to think that, but this new way of doing things is crazy... because of this after all the money I have invested in the club, I am handing in my tags today ( IF I can ever log in! ) I cannot be an officer there knowing that so many kids will be showing up. ( KNOWING is the key word )

I hope someone out there that reads this understand what the hell I am trying to say.. I really suck at expressing myself sometimes.... Lexii

BLAST! There goes one of my closest friends in SL, and there wasn't a single thing I could say to convince him to stay! Starchaser shared a home with me in SL. I had one floor of our home to myself, and he and his mate shared a second floor. It won't surprise me at all if his mate in SL follows him out the door. I almost followed him myself!

The whole point of his complaints and fears is that with this stupid revolving-door, infinite available accounts system, there is no way AT ALL to trust that any new account is an adult, or is the least bit interested in maintaining a good reputation.

He wasn't the least bit interested in seeking new intimate partners. He already had a mate, and other close friends that he trusted. So it wasn't at all about him fooling around with random people. His biggest fear was that LL would get their tail sued off, and that either he or one of his friends might somehow get caught in the crossfire, or that LL would end up shutting down SL completely, and he would lose everything. Better to "cut his losses and leave gracefully, with a clean record", he said.

With the old system, yes, you could lie. But if you got caught, that credit card or paypal account could effectively be prohibited from creating new accounts. You only got to make three accounts, so when you burned one by getting banished, it actually might mean something.

But when you can keep coming back forever, with an infinite stream of new accounts? What is there to prevent anyone who gets caught lying about their age or griefing from just making a new account and picking up right where they left off?

Nothing at all...

Why does the age verification even matter? I bet over half of the people on the mature grid lied about their age...

IF! people signs up for second life and register. And, lied for there age on the registration page part. Then, they will be caught in the long run. Lieing will never get you anywhere in life nor it ever will for that matter. thank you and take care.

Unless you´re soma mafia man ou politician, and can get profit plus pay for the expenses.

I believe it´s more I wish one would get caught in the long run than WILL get caught in the long run.

You know what I had a run in with you Tyler and you are a admitted underage person! Boy I wish I still has the Notecard I had of the convo. Yes I saved it per request of LL and put it on a AR! so take your avatar back to the teen grid. Its brcause of teens like this that the adults in SL are gun shy anymore!!

To make this perfectly clear, Starchaser wasn't the least bit worried about himself boffing some random kid who was faking being an adult. He had a mate here, and hardly ever did anything more than a kiss with anyone but her. What he was worried about was some kid watching him and his mate in SL enjoying each other's company in the so-called 'privacy' of their own home, and he and his mate being caught in a legal mess because somebody's kid got caught by mommy playing voyeur on a 'peep show' that was never intended to be between anyone but Star and his mate!

If kids can get in, and can't be kept out, what is to prevent a scene like that? How can you possibly avoid it, short of owning a whole sim as a private island and locking everyone else out? Parcel bans won't stop someone from sitting some distance away, completely unknown to the couple being spied on. That is why he no longer felt safe. It's one thing if a virtual 'peeping tom' is an adult. But when it might be a kid with parents willing to sue anyone they percieved as 'corrupting' their precious child? Even if it could be proven that he in no way was aware of the child's presence, and that the child lied about their age to get there, that risk was more than he was willing to take.

looks like you learned well your lessons being younger, lies can bring you pretty far in life, look at all these persons, mayors, governors.... presidents?

for th OP, well if it's all you need to leave, then have fun .. offlline

Ceera one problem kids could always get into SL though the problem just didnt arise till they said they wont require a credit card or cell phone to verify a person is who they say basically. Thats all thats changed. Its not age verification that was gotten rid of but rather the way for LL to indetify a person mind you they cant buy L really without properly verifying themselves unless they get it thru a third party site which im sure LL can ask for info on.

The same age verification is in place as when i signed up for SL a lil over a year ago they just got rid of the need for a credit card, which any kid could really just go grab from mommy or daddy when they arnt looking. The thing is that game is intended for people 18+ and there is a teen grid. Legality really doesnt come into play because they specifically specify that you need to be 18 and up. Kid's are going to get into SL one way or another, just like kids can sign up for porn sites etc really if they wanted to. Just more stuff brought on by the governmental institutes of what is proper for minors and stuff really.

I think some censorship goes to far and alot of minors get confused in the long run of things but i wont go into all that. I got into an argument with my mum the other day about the fcc and stuff. Kids are going to be exposed to sex, nudity, and cursing and personally i find it better for them to learn a bit b4 they get into a situation where hey they got a girl pregnant or something because they were "curious". Cursing in music being censored is another bit or on tv for that matter. The fact here is kids are more likely to pick cursing up from their parents or their friends who most likely picked it up from some parental source.

I do feel there needs to be a line where things are truly out of hand but i also think that the government is trying to hard to sheild the children from every possible thing that they think is going to corrupt their minds.

Lina, before they changed registration, if a child was caught on the main grid, or an adult on the teen grid, Linden Labs had some sort of real-world identity to act on to keep them out. They could ban the card and not allow it to be re-used. They could check to see who was supposed to be on that card, and notify mommy and daddy where their precocious kid was hanging out. They could send the cops after the creep that was soliciting kids on the teen grid.

Now? They get banned, and come right back in.

The teen grid isn't safe from adult preditors, and the adult grid isn't safe from kids posing as adults. There is no more personal responsibility involved. There is no risk involved for lying. If they get caught, they just make a new account. THAT creeps me out, big time.

I will agree that before the change, we were still largely just trusting whatever birthdate the account holder offered. But before the change, there was something LL could do about it if they lied or if they broke the TOS. I really do not believe they can do anything effective to enforce the age policies now. And I fear that to be a lawsuit waiting to happen, and a potential disaster for some poor kids out there who are sure to try to meet with some creep in RL, and get seriously hurt, FOR REAL.

Ok, I've been looking at this, and never have you brought up the kids that hate that they're kids. I ran into a kid that said he wasn't in the teen grid because he was sick of the way teens act on xbox live. I must agree, it is because of teens that Halo 2 has been destroyed, but enough about that.

Legally, I dont think anything is about to happen. Teens are smart, if in a stupid way, and they could easily fake their age and name. An account is traceable to a credit card, but who is to say that the parents would even care if they were notified? I've talked to kids claiming to be 7 on Xbox Live playing Conker: Live and Reloaded, and I could hear their parents yelling at them in the background. (BTW, Conker: Live and Reloaded is one of the more violent and disturbing games, if you dont know.)

I want to end this stupidity, so... JUST BE GLAD YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM! I have to mute all of them on Xbox Live because I cant stand their voices. In SL at least you can't tell, and they dont seem to be too annoying like in some other games. So consider it a blessing, as someone to talk to. And be glad they have something to do other that running around yanking the hood ornament off your car or egging your house or shooting your dog with red paintballs.

All in all, it might be a good thing...

was i right in reading the first post that started this string? because if i was... ummm maaaaybe.... just maybe we need to be more careful with WHOM we are spending that quality time with? i mean honestly... we are free to be ourselves here but at any given time in your life when you are in the company of strangers... in such a well populated placeself control of your own desires is important... ie: skyboxes for privacy?
So my point is this...
If you are afraid of getting caught with an underage kids( in any situation ) and are actually leaving SL because they dont have an age verfiication process... then you need to do some serious thinkin. Children will ALWAYS going to be all over the net... no matter what... when the parents arent there or whatever... Just be careful with friends you meet and require honesty in your relationships...
Though there is really no way of knowing who is liar and who isnt... and who is a voyuer and who is just a prowler here on the internet and its all gotta be based on trust alot of the time...BUT umm maybe.. just mayyybe though some serious thought needs to be put into why you are here on SL instead why you are NOT being here anymore...

SL has alot more to it then having to worry about underage kids interacting with adults... take a looksie and rememeber why you came here in the first place

Respectfully... krista