Linden Dollar Moving Lower Against

Dear Jonas:


If you "Paid For It", then you would have to buy your L$ off LindenX.
No, what LL has done is charged you a premium price and they give you
L$500 every week for free. It didn't cost LL anything to generate that L$.
LL didn't take a portion of your premium fee and buy L$ off LindenX for you.
As such, what they are giving you is Newly Printed Cash to spend as you see
fit within the Nation of SL. Because of this, Stipends are Welfare. You didn't
buy these Linden Dollars from another person within LL. You were given
these dollars from the never-ending money machine in LL's backroom.

And the negative of this Money Machine is why more and more currency
continues to enter into the economy, creating a downward tread in the
valuation of the L$.

And if you think I'm a Socialist/Marxist banker, you need to go back to
school and educate yourself on the definition of Socialist and Marxist.
Because nothing I've said comes close to the Centralized Power Scheme
that Socialist try to create.

*buzz* wrong

My premium pays for my stipend to be alotted on a weekly basis

Again show me how its welfare and we'll talk. Until then just go away.

Currency backed by gold is the past.

Keep telling everyone that not agreeing with you equates to being brainwashed.

Digital currency will increasingly be a more viable option, but again, I caution people to know what they are getting into.

http://www.gdcaonline.org/

If anyone has paid attention to the infighting between these groups (including GDCA), the general lack of oversight and some of the fly-by-night operations involved, you will see parallels to sub-prime lenders and used car salesmen (no offence car slugs ) as exemplified by the EVOcash and INTgold situations.

I am not a land baron nor a SL Banker, I am just a "normal" sl resident. I have read this thread and am confused by some of the comments. I join SL in September when they offered the free basic account and the $50L stipend kept me going for a little. I decided to get my preimum account for two reasons, one was to own a little piece virtual land and to have a little more lindens to buy somethings. It may be other things to other people but to me it is just a game to enjoy, socialize, and make friends. Yeah, I am now the owner of two small lots which I am renting out (Smiles) more money coming in and I also rent a small island to call "home". I have started creating low prim applicances and rugs also. Now after that short background history....smile

When I paid for my preimum membership it cost me $72.00 USD. I get 500 lindens a week stipends. 500 x 52 weeks equals 26,000 linden dollars, that is if my limited math is correct, I just now went to the lindex and tried to by 72.00 usd worth of lindens and it told me I could get 19,607 lindens for 72.00. 26,000 - 19,607 = 6393 lindens. 6393 lindens = approximately $23.50 USD if I am figuring right I am getting back per year free. So basically I am playing in the game free and getting extra money besides. Am I coming to the right conclusion?

The way I look at this is not that it is welfare because it is not something I need to life, but it is extra money I can spend in the game. All this money, $95.50 is money that goes into back into the system where it is money for the creator's to get paid for their work or the land barons to make their "fortunes". I don't really mind this, naturally since I am really playing for free...not really because it still cost me 72.00 a year, plus I buy a lot of extra lindens (Since September 2005 over $500 to $600 dollars worth).

So LL makes a little off of me, I know it has to cost a lot to pay for the payroll, the cost of the servers, etc... and I also know they make money off the virtual land they put out and get paid for....but for me it is all part of the way the system works. Yes the make the lindens at their "printing plant" but it all comes back to them in the long run.

Do I have this idea right or where am I wrong....

-------------------
This is second life....a game....not real life.....

Do you have a learning disability? I just told you that your
Premium Account DOES NOT pay for your weekly Stipend.
If it "Paid" for your weekly stipend, then Linden Labs would
be taking a week deduction from your yearly payment and
buying L$ off LindenX and giving it to you.

Instead, LL is creating new Linden Dollars and handing them
to you for nothing.. Giving you L$500/wk (US$1.81). Since LL
is essentially the Government in SL, they are in effect giving
you a Welfare Check. Your Premium Payment in no way,
shape, or form plays a role in your Stipend. Other than
qualifing you for L$500 vs. L$50.

wel·fare:
-----------
Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.




Like I said, you are collecting a Welfare Check.

Let's get serious for just a minute. Look at your definition.....it is NOT welfare.....no one in sl is in dire need to survive.....it is a game people....you can exist, live well, get fat from sitting in front of the computer all day play and don't need a dime....We are paying the preimum because we want to...the stipends is just a little gravy to have fun with....but it is not WELFARE.

No, they aren't.

LL is paying them in exchange for a service - the service of contributing extra US$ to keep SL running.

Likewise, basic members are being paid for a service - the service of being around in SL to serve as an audience or an active customer base for the higher paying or more active residents.

By your definition there is no welfare in SL because nobody "needs" L$.

umm... isn't welfare normally paid for by the people paying taxes? We aren't really taxed in SL to pay for that stipend for those "in need"

and umm... I get a stipend, but I really don't NEED it. SO if we ALL get it... is it really welfare?

I really hate when people bust out the definitions and get into childish "are you learning disabled"..."can't you read"...mud slinging. Does nothing to bolster your points.

Anyway, George....you're $L500/wk is $L26,000/yr with an additional $L1250 sign on bonus. Your payment was $72, but the cost is $9.95/mo, or $119.40/yr. At the current avg of $L274.51/$1, that would be $L32,776.

LL is giving you a discounted price based on the present value of the $119.40 cash flow stream.

Hey that means I am doing great....LOL Getting paid to have fun....who could want anymore........glad I am not a smart banker who has all this knowledge...remind me not to do any kind of banking with him....I HATE WELFARE.....LOL

Best thing to do is just put ReserveBank on ignore. I have yet to read a constructive post by him.

No, I think you do though. It DOES pay for my stipend. I pay at one bulk rate for weekly allotments of linden dollars instead of one large bulk sum, and thus, if I simple cashed them all out might make what? 2 dollars a year?

No, Its NOT welfare because my premium costs pay for it.

Ohhh brother.... Let me see if I can make it simple for you:

a) You pay LL $72/yr for a Premium Account

This gives you the privilege of receiving L$500/wk. Your yearly
fee is not used to create or purchase your L$500/wk.


b) Linden Labs Creates From Thin Air L$500/wk that is deposited
into your account. You may think your US$72 is exchanged
into L$26000/yr, but it does not.. Otherwise, LL would become a
broker on the LindenX every Tuesday, buying up available currency
with your premium membership. But they aren't, they are creating
new currency.

Because of this, LL is constantly flooding the currency market
with new Linden Dollars because of Stipends they payout. Simply
put, its welfare. Your $72/yr means nothing in the discussion of
new Linden Dollars being created...

Keiki:

Please do so. Then I won't have to read your posts to my
remarks.

The point I'm getting at is that Stipends create a never ending overflow
of Linden Dollars in the Economy. There are too many dollars floating
around, which leads to more sellers than buyers on LindenX. This creates
a downward valuation of the Linden Dollar.

Stipends need to be stopped and a preset amount of Linden Dollars
needs to be fixed in the economy. If people want L$ Dollars to purchase
Goods/Services in SL, they need to buy available L$ off LindenX.
Supply-Demand Economics will do the rest.

If they do away with the stipends completely at least 70 per cent of the active member in SL will go else where.....I would bet on it.....then what happens to SL you would be a banker with no clients.

Empty threats with no supporting evidence. Maybe you might
go somewhere else, but the vast majority would stay right here.
And you know what would happen? Prices for everything would
adjust to the new economic model and SL would continue chugging
along.

And with one less angry person as a bonus.. (ie: You)

I can't disagree with that, but calling stipends "welfare" is inflammatory and not very productive.

I don't think getting rid of the stipends would fix much either. With the population growing like it is, if there were no stipends we would end up having insanely high prices on the LindeX and we would have something else to bicker about.

you must not read the thread entirely before you make a comment, never said I was mad, if fact I am having a great time in here.....spend a lot of my USD's buying things and spend all my stipend.....I there is no way you really know how many would leave until it happened, you might spend more time in-world talking with the average "players" instead of making comments in here...you might find out the majority of the active in-world residents live day by day on the weekly stipends, buy a "few" lindens from the lindex or other sources, but if stipends went away they would go too....I spend a lot of time in-world and talk to a lot of people and they are very upset with the idea of stipends being taken away and also the way the system has become like it is.... get out into the in-world and talk to people.........

I'll be in sl until the end which I hope doesn't come.....

SL charges for upload of textures and animations too, given what the average SL user blows for pics alone, and given that i blow easily 2k L per month when building this money is drained away fast.
The 500 L are not the problem, dwell and 200 Linden for non paying accounts is the problem.

Regarding me they should too away ALL of this, no dwell, no stipends in any form, simply to controll the volume of lindens, period.

And stop spouting stuff like "wellfare", that means giving someone who has not the means to survive on its own basic lifesupport, not handing out money to people wich have already.

Subvention would fit here, giving someone who could afford to buy Lindens Lindens.

My idea would be LL does away with free accounts and charges 5$ for an basic account, takes the five dollars and buys lindens <with a small fee to cover there costs> from the free market and hands them out to the accounts, this way the economy in SL gets an boost, no printet money is introduced into SL and should the volume of Lindens get to big they can even burn Lindens, keeping the exchangerate someway stable.

Good stable currencies dont pop out of nowehere, they are the result of national banks keeping the value stable and therefore making them safe currencies people like invest into because they know that they will not loose there investments.

And no market is "free", the results are called depressions, every exchange and stockmarket on the world is regulated, having them running free is begging for the destriction of billions of REAL values like production lines.

Every systhem needs rules and checks to stay stable, otherwise you get sooner or later an breakdown.

And that has nothing to do with "Socialism" or "Communism", as soon you let any systhem run free, capitalism included, things go south, the John Locke capitalism is as much an utopia as the Marxistic communism.

I paid for the linden dollars. Therefore its not welfare. I don't care if I buy directly from the mint or from the market.

The point is I -paid- for them, its not welfare.

You can't appease all the people, somebody will be upset. But that
is life. Deal with it...

You Paid for a Privilege of being offered Linden Dollars
from the weekly money machine. You didn't pay for Linden
Dollars. They were created out of thin air and handed to you.
With no care in the world for what the US$/L$ exchange
rate is.

I paid for Linden Dollars, I received Linden dollars.

No, I don't care about the exchange rate. Im not in SL for that.

Your demand for stipends is killing this economy. Every Tuesday
Stipends are sent out, the Linden Dollar becomes a little more
worthless.