Have your stipends been cut because of one Ponzi scheme?

Anshe as we all know from the gom thread you dissappeared from the leaderboard during the big sellout when alot of currency was dumped and the magical 16mil was infact yours

She shoots, she scores!!! Completely, and rightly so, blown out of the water by that rockin' Linden with the moves, Robin "The Wordy Bird" Linden!!

*massive applause and mayhem by the populace*

It's really bizarre that you'd specifically speak up against this theory unless you folks know something about Ginko that we don't.

The fact that

a) they're taking money from SL and investing it outside of the community
b) Offering an impossible rate of return
c) pretty much stated in this thread that they are paying interest with investor money

should send up some massive red flags that any responsible group of people would avoid defending.

While Anshe is obviously a business person like anyone else, she DOES have all her resources invested in SL with all those islands and L$.

I mean, what the hell is going on here?

Is there some kind of absurd and pointless GOTCHA waiting around the corner? Like, they are investing SL and we knew it all along, HAH HAH.

If someone knows something, speak up.

Financial institutions are heavily regulated in even the most free market capital economies, and for very very good reason, they form the foundation of our culture of trust when enaging in anything economic.

And wow.. I don't think I am going to ever use Lindex if I run the risk of my transactions going through there are being posted on the forums, bad game, very bad game.

Yes does seem like anybody (or anshe) can post real life information against the disclosure section of the community standards big six, so cant really wait to find out something to post myself.

Thanks to Robin to clarfifying.

Ansche - how much L$ did you convert to US$ during the last year? Not my business? - damn right and its none of your business casting doom and gloom on Ginko.

Alexa

PS - Blaze, your posts are getting more and more bizarre - please put me on ignore, because I'm putting you on ignore lol.

I don't agree with this reasoning. As long as there is confidence that the money being lent to Ginko will be paid back, there shouldn't be a drop in the value of the $L. If Ginko went bankrupt today, there would most likely be a drop in the $L like what India saw as people lose confidence in both the value of the $L as well as in the value of Second Life.

Now the numbers you gave show that he sold at a rate of 267$L/1US$ or US$3.75/$L1000. The problem is that you don't have information of when he sold at what price. We have seen prices lower than that, and most likely a majority of the cash out has been recent as business tend to get bigger as time goes on. It is possible that he simply cashed out along with the natural movement of the $L. There shouldn't be a difference between him cashing out and the people lending to him cashing out. Either scenario leads to the same conclusion.

Now there is another currency exchanging company that is not you or Ginko that has been seen loosing large amounts of $L on the leaderboard at the same time huge walls were set up on GOM. These walls would sit there encouraging people to sell low until the demand caused the walls to begin to sell off. When they started to sell off the orders would be canceled and set slightly higher until at some point they were removed altogether causing the $L to rise and an instant profit. I haven't been around long enough to know if they did this before I was around, but it stands to reason that if they did it once they've done it before. Anyone older know if they have. The amount of money doing this was almost exactly the same amount of money that was leaving the currency exchange accounts for this one company. My guess is this influencing of the market had more to do with the fall in $L than Ginko did.

I don't think there is any contradiction between what Robin say and what I posted. Of course nobody at Linden Lab make one concious decision to change stipends because one specific person sell L$. But the amount of L$ in circulation had to be reduced to fight inflation. And IMHO to the inflation that had been going on for months the removal of value from SL economy by Ginko was one major contributor.

I am sorry, but should these posts not have been locked long ago, I mean… look.

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In my eyes, she is getting down to a personal level with a -soon- to be competitor.

And let me take a quote form blaze elsewhere in the forums as I am sure he would not want to be a bigot, as that would just negate everything he has said.



With GinkoTec up and coming to be a soon to be competitor, I am sure that he agrees.

What I argue is not the psychologic aspect, but the effect of suppy and demand and also the effect of value being invested inside SL as compare to the value leave SL. When you lend money and cash it into foreign currency, it makes the sold currency drop. Vice versa, if that value ever would return to the SL later the currency would rise.

We could argue what effect 16 mio L$ have. I would assume it is enough to have measurable impact (even if spread across one year) but not enough to be the *only* factor for serious inflation.

Absolutely, the economy happens at the margin.

There is a delicate balance and it would be easy to see how Ginko could have upset that balance and created a shift in the value of the L$.

I just find it surreal that the Lindens are acting so nonchalant about this whole thing. It's almost like they're facilitating the fleecing of their economy and their customers.

Yes, Ginko is the ruin of SLs economy, and not the lady that buys land and sells it at twice the price. I'm not sure why you are trying to get rid of Ginko, but I'm sure there are ways that don't make you look silly.

"Have your stipends been cut because of one Ponzi scheme?"

You claimed it was because of Ginko. Robin corrected you. There is a contradiction there.

Also, this thread is a prime example of appeal to emotion. It's blatantly trying to get people to pick up pitchforks and torches and go after Ginko.

For the record, I have never done business with Ginko. I have done business several times with Anshe, which is something I may have to refrain from doing in the future, as I view this thread to be dubious if not unprofessional in nature.

Can I have some please Blaze?

In the end, you all have to remember who's really responsible here.

Everyone is doing what naturally comes to them.

You leave out food, and vermin will gather.

You don't blame the vermin for being vermin - you blame people for leaving out the food.

When the grid got crashed by the whats, the fault was not the whats. They existed before and will exist long after LL has come and gone.

The fault was the LL developers who made it so they can take down the grid. They knew exactly what they they were doing when they left the grid vulnerable to that.

When this ponzi scheme implodes, the responsibility for this lays completely on the shoulders of those let it happen and had the power to do something about it - the Lindens.

Now land prices going up could cause $L prices to fall some, but land never stays up in price and is not the only thing in the economy, so its effect is not complete or permanent. The land market and the $L market are two seperate markets with supply and demand changes at different times. They are loosly connected, but they do not directly control each other. Land has risen in price more this month than any other I've seen since July, yet the $L has remained more steady than any other time I know about. Land prices are not what set the price of the $L. The demand and supply of $L for sale is what causes the price to be what it is. Notice I said for sale. $L in circulation being hoarded do not effect the $L price, and people not buying their $L from the currency exchange only effect the market when they spend their newly printed $L and increase the supply for sale without increasing demand. Cutting the in-flow of newly made money or increasing it is the most effective way of keeping a steady $L value.

If you have a steady currency value, then land will regulate itself from getting expensive. Right now, most land is pinned at the US$ value of somewhere between US$1000.00 for 65536-40503 meter2. The wide fluctuation is due to multiple bidders and changes in the protected land size. Land sellers can't sell to you for more than this and succeed, because there is an unlimited supply at this price. Linden Labs is the one that sets where the price of land will be pinned, and this price has not been determined arbritrarily. This is a slightly higher price than they found the average price of land was months ago, so they are in essence setting the price based off of how supply and demand happened in the past.

It is a common business practice to take things other people sell for cheap and raise the price to market value. This is why the old I'm just going to make a few cents a sale profit and undersell everybody else ploy never works. In the end other people buy from the underseller to sell at the price the market supports making much more profit than the underseller who eventually goes out of business by not being able to cover the cost of his operation. Teir fees and hours worked are the cost of operation for land sales. Around 14% of the value of a person's land is taxed every month at the very top level, so if a person doesn't find land to raise in value to at least cover that amount and the hours spent searching for land, they will go out of business. Most land sale business do not exist, because they extort more money from you, but because they are better at recognizing the true value of a peice of land than the average person. I don't just buy every cheap peice of land and raise its price, I only do it when the prices are right, and I assume everyone who is successful does the same.

Yeah, almost as non-chalant as they are about allowing one player to enjoy a 28% share of the land market. One who can affect how other barons work their pricing at her whim, and consequently affect the entire land market.

There are no controls on any businesses in SL, and perhaps there needs to be. Perhaps LL should start by creating a cap on how many sims one player can own, so they can't bend the market to where they would like to see it go.

One possibility is that this is all bullshit on the part of Ginko and that's why LL isn't doing anything.

Maybe they don't have 16 million, they just have 2 million or so, and LL isn't really worried because they haven't really suckered people in like they're saying they are.

I have a hard time believeing that LL would just sit idly by if someone had actually done what Ginko has claimed to have done.

Blaze, didn't you say, "Buyer beware - Alliez is bad mouthing a competitor rather than providing a superior service. I can't say enough about what a character flaw this is."

Ohhhhh, I see.

So people don't kill people, gun makers kill people. And ummm, big rock makers kill people, and.....uhhhh...makers of big sticks! Yeah.

People don't set fires and kill other people, the makers of MATCHES kill people. I see!

Nobody is responsible for their own actions! Wow, what a concept.

Thanks so much for your insight, blaze. I get it now.

Do you give matches to children? Do you give guns to children?

No.

Just like you don't give viral LSL API access to a bunch of moronic Whats.

There is a reason why ponzi schemes are illegal as well, as experienced con artists can easily use them to fleece a mathematically ignorant audience.

But yet again, I see the lack of evidence that this is a big Ponzi scheme, so once you can produce the facts, then I think people might start listening. As of right now, you are the ones that brought this case up, it is up to you to prove your case.

There are plenty of underaged children that go hunting and target shooting with adults. They have been taught how to be responsible and correctly use guns without harming others. There are masses of Boy Scouts that not only have been given matches, but have been responsivily shown how to create fire without even using matches.

All members of the main grid are adults, not children.

Your boat is sinking blaze, you need to bail faster.

This only effects the supply of the $L for sale if you assume the people investing the $L would not have sold their $L for cash in the first place. We already know by the fact that these people put this money in an investment like Ginko that they weren't out to spend or hoard the money, and when they do get to the point of wanting to spend money; they cash out their $L from Ginko. They could very easily do the same thing by cashing out their money to a real life bank bank until a later time when they want to spend that money in which case they bring the money back into the system on the currency exchange.

The only difference is where the US$ go to when. If Ginko right now takes $L1000 from you and turns it into $L1850 for you in a year, then they are bringing more money into the system than they take. They don't create those $L, so the money to buy the extra $L had to come from somewhere. The exception would be in the case where this is a pyramid scam and the new $L come from new investors, but that does not effect the value of the $L just because $L are being exchanged for foreign currency. $L being exchanged for foreign currency is what causes the $L to have real money value in the first place. It just means that Ginko has gotten a hold of $L to make US$ off of rather than someone else, but if the $L were on their way to be cashed out anyway; how will it effect the supply of $L for sale.

Websites can make a great deal of money if they buy wholesale goods in bulk, and then ship them. It is a risky business as it is quite possible you could get stuck with junk that suddenly no one wants, but it is possible to make a great deal of money for a short time. Illegal operations of various kinds have also been known to make high profits. I believe the profit margin I read in National Geographic for the average Columbian drug cartel was 800% off of investment. I can't find the article now, but I believe they were talking about the profit before the mark ups in price in the states. I'm not saying this person is involved in that activity, but high profits are possible. It could be a pyramid scheme, it could be a succesful legitimate business, and it could be illegal activity, but no one has any proof one way or another. I agree that profits that high are normally a sign of great risk, but I don't think the $L will be hurt in value a great deal until there is an actual failure. That possible failure does scare me, but I have no proof that this person is not legitimate.

I didn't mind the other thread by anshe on ginko because it was more informative rather then an attack(even if it was meant to be an attack). It provided info and allowed others to make their own decision. But this thread is purely an attack on ginko and is not justifable. I can now see why ppl thoroughly dislike her, she is absolutely ruthless. She is purely trying to hurt ginko and for what purpose? She has already given info on ginko(appreciate it), NOW LET THE INVESTORS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES! If this doesn't shutdown ginko, what next? Are the next threads by anshe going to be "GINKO SUPPORTS TERRORISTS AND CAUSES CANCER!". I think this thread should be closed because it is purely attacking someone elses credibility.

She says ginko isn't a competitor so why would she care about what ginko does so much that she feels the need to bring it down. I would hate to see what she does against her actual competitors. It now brings into question on how she achieved her success. Was is just hard work, or was there some unfair play involved.

Plus I'm glad the ratings stipend was cut. That was so abused and unneeded. They needed to go because it would have caused the L to crash. It wasnt ginko that caused this. Ginko only cashed out less then 1 week volume worth of trading. That wouldn't have been the cause for cutting ratings stipend. Ratings stipends were just inefficient and needed to be cut. Plus alot of what ginko cashed out would've been cashed out by the owners so you end up with the same result even if ginko didn't exist.