Have your stipends been cut because of one Ponzi scheme?

Where does your money go? We all have a right to know and won't stop until you tell us! Also, is it true that you had sex with Monica Lewinski?

Good Point, But she has already said that it goes back into SL..


Thats a pointless question... Funny, but pointless to this... It sound like your trying to upset/anger her...

1. Thats mean to any person
2. Has nothing to do with land and economy...

How in the HELL is he taking money out of the economy if it's being sold to another avatar in-game?

Anshe... all the money you have has gone to your head.

Anshe, if a competitors's success is troubling you, I am sorry; but don't they have as much right to make a profit from their ventures as you have?

As far as hurting the SL economy.... no one is going to repossess our SL mansions if the Linden dollar takes a dive. We won't go hungry, ever. We can make our own clothes, etc., without having to spend a penny for the resources to do it... and there are enough cool freebies in SL to keep anyone happy if all they here for is a little fun and socialization.

What is the real problem? Or is there one?

Frank, there is one little difference between somebody who earned money cash out and somebody who borrowed money cash it out.

When I earn money I create some kinda value. This value attracts buyers. So if I sell my L$ for US$, then on the other hand, because I created some desirable value in SL, this is balanced by this value attract equal amount of US$ investment in SL. For example I create one t-shirt. This t-shirt present some value that somebody might be able spend money on, which he either got by create some value himself or by buying L$. So somewhere in the chain somebody must first have bought the L$ (by pay for premium account or go to LindeX) before I get the L$ for the t-shirt and can cash out. So when I earn money, I don't only add the L$ for sale to the currency exchange, I also attract the buyer to the currency exchange, with my content or service I created.

What Nicholas do with Ginko is that he just borrows money from people. He does not create any comparable value by do so. He then cashes it out, only adding L$ to the sell side on the currency exchange, but not providing any attraction for people to actually buy the L$. So what we see is that capital gets draw from SL into RL, much like money fleeing south america to be invest in the USA. This create inflation and devalue the currency of the country that suffers this money drain.

All would be good in the long run if one day Nicholas would make the big profit in RL, use that money to buy back the L$ and pay back all the money he borrowed. Suddenly L$ would go up and Philip could grant all of us the higher stipend again. Unfortunately I don't believe this will ever happen. I have been pressing Ginko very hard, as you can see on this forum, to provide the information and proof about the "investments" Nicholas claims exist. Despite all this pressure, Ginko still remains one secretive black hole that suck in the money and nobody know where it goes. So, until we receive better information my working thesis is that 60000$ have been invested in one nice and luxurious BMW for Nicholas and will never find its way back into the SL economy. I will correct myself as soon as I get other information.

I think anshe was trying to question how ginko works. But in many, many, many, many ect. more words...

I am confused aswell... But i am sure we will all know more very soon

So lets all hold hands and sing while we wait..

What he is doing is drain value (in terms of US$) from the economy. The amount of L$ of course remain the same, but by moving L$ to LindeX without creating comparable value inside the SL economy he adds to inflation and the whole amount of L$ in circulation gets devalued against the US$.

Sorry I have to make this post...

100 POSTS WOO! GO ME!

Woo
Woo
Wo...

Alex Edo looks at all the scowling facing.. and stop dancing...

I suppose this kind of worry is what surfaces when people decide to use an online game to make a real life living.

Lets close Sl?

JOKE!

Alex Edo Chains himself to Secondlife.. (if that is possable)

I have that same feeling.

To Frank
thanks for being (pardon the pun) frank

a mass sellout of linden dollars can make the value of the L$ decrease, but then again lindex (im unsure about GOM) gives you an option to only sell 'if (L$ amount for sale) = (US$ wanted)' so if there is a downturn in the us$/L$ ratio they will not sell your L$ for under the predetermend value whereas u can decide that the ratio is to your liking and sell at that value

if sumeone decided to suddenly sell of 16 million L$ at 60,000us$, and this was under the current L$ for US$ value - it is the other peoples choice to either get on the same boat or wait for when their ship comes in, yes you may have to wait for the 16mill to be sold of first before they get to yours but you can reap the rewards of waiting

this is 'roughly' the same buisness model that the malls and other buisness's operate on, if say the clothes shop that normally charges 1% more than the others does a 10% sale on all items - the other stores can either wait by and hope for their constant prices to reap the income benifits but lose some customers to a rival or create their own 10% discount sale and lose that 10% of returns in hope for 10% or higher customer intrest

it can either create a hole where the value of your product drops below breadline (if its money, clothes or otherwise) or create an higher intrest in that item and get a overall higher econemy

most people may think that the lower price for higher intrest may be worth it, but be warned it doesnt always work - in the uk there was a price war on mobile phones where you could get a new, payasyougo, mobile for around £10 and the companys hoped that they would get the money back via the use of the phones, but this fell through on some companys as customers came aware that they could 'unlock' such phones and change their payasyougo company for a cheaper line rental service, and also some customers were lost to the higher charging ones when the cheaper phones ran out and found out you got a better afterservice with this aswell

so dont go selling all your lindens for 1000L$/1US$ just yet! it can kill your own and many others around yous buisness's! but then again it can create a buyers boom and your shops inworld can have a sudden influx of moneyloaded customers who have the money they brought of u plus some of the money they got for cheap of the competitors, willing and ready to use the cash they got off sum1 else for extremly cheap on you which u can resell for a higher price after the crash bottoms out....

(the above statement is not endorsed by anyone or anything - inc me - dont hold me to any of the above either, i may of missed a point or mispelt something that could kill us all! i hope not, i like sl, sl is a nice, a nice place indeed, dammit whar ma pills gone....)

Kornation
From the Kornhole

As with any investment house that invests client's money in their portfolio, the client's receive monthly, quarterly, annual reports describing in detail where your money is invested, short-term and long-term performance, current and historical valuations (did your investment experience a loss or a gain over time).

Ok, that said, has anyone seen such financial reports from the Ginko investment house? If I were to invest my money, whether it be Lindens of USD, that is the second question I would ask.... "What is your reporting cycle to your investors?" The first question would be... "Can I see your historical portfolio performance reports along with current Ginko P&L's and Balance Sheet?"

The numbers of $L's and USD being discussed are large, and I would expect a large investment firm such as Ginko to act like one. Otherwise, they would not get MY business. The risk is just to great in terms of the ROI's being quoted/paid investors. If there are periodic reports to investors, I would be interested in seeing one.

All the politics and peronalities aside, I don't think Anshe is bashing Ginko. She is, however, asking some very hardball questions about Ginko and their investment firm. And of course, where is the money?

The old cliche is ringing loudly in these young elven ears.... "If it apears to good to be true, it probably is...."

That's funny, Linden Lab tells the press junket that anshechung.com turns it into US$ and thus is a cornerstone of LL's "play SL, make real money" marketing pitch. Where are Woodward and Bernstein when you need them?

For the most part I cycled huge amount of money and accumulate the wealth in Second Life. If tomorrow I would sell my business or cash out in other ways I would have made nice profit. However, sofar I reinvested the majority of my earning in the SL economy.

And I donate all my time to teaching orphans how to bring about world peace. And the epistemic rating of our combined assertions is *calulates...* 0.02 microGettiers. [added: In other words, we're both lying]

Anshe, first let me say congratulations on your successful endeavors in sl.

You took some serious risks when you were building your empire, (land was a serious risk when you started your monopoly........not now .....because you own it all and control the land prices in sl) but regardless of that, you built your empire on risk.

If I want to invest ALL my money from my texture business in Ginko ...whether it be 50$L or 50,000$L ...IT IS MY BUSINESS and none of yours. I know the risk, same as you did when you started your business. Regardless, of if Nick wants to say where the money is invested, I KNOW THE RISK AND ITS MY CHOICE.

So, Anshe, STOP IT...unless you are willing to let us tell you how to run your business ....QUIT trying to tell us how to run ours.

And do I believe, that you have not played a hand in manipulating the money market to fit your needs...NOT ON MY LIFE!

Anshe, I understand your point about the difference between borrowing money and earning money. Some may have similar feelings about the difference between those who earn it through crafting and those who earn it through smart investments in land or corporate management.

Putting aside for the moment (if we may) the bona fides or solvency of any individual borrower, I'm not sure I see the difference in terms of impact upon inflation (as opposed to the exchange rate), especially if there is no way to take Lindens out of SL "in specie". Let me think out loud.

If someone accumulates Lindens that they have earned or borrowed, and holds them in "savings," this takes one form of money out of the economy, but stores it as another form of money. Economists talk about these forms of money as "M1" -- cash and currency in circulation ... and "M2," "M3," etc. ... and debate the different effects that change in each had on inflation.

There may be a difference between accumulation in the form of "working capital," which might be roughly described as savings invested in things that work. Things like land that produces crops or minerals or on which we build stores, offices or houses. Reinvestment in capital goods, if they produce more than the carrying cost of the investment, builds economies, according to my crude understanding of Keynesian economics. Disinvestment and excess savings in unproductive assets (like cash) produces recessions and depressions, under my again limited understanding.

So, if Saver accumulates wealth not in working capital but as cash in unproductive forms, such as a SL Linden balance, or land in raw inventory form, does it make a difference if they got the wealth from borrowing or from earning?

I can see why it makes a moral difference to some folks, but economies rarely are concerned by morals. They react to markets, which are a function of psychology and complex systems dynamics.

Market crises (e.g. multiple bank failures) may cause deflation (as in the Great Depression) and market manias may cause inflation (remember the Beanie Baby Boom of the 90's?). But unless an exchange of Lindens for Dollars (where there must be both a buyer and seller) is big enough to cause an overall loss of confidence in the value of Lindens *in game*, how does it drive up prices of goods and services in Lindens *in game*?

I can see why a big sale of Lindens for dollars hurts the value of Lindens in terms of dollars. If Lindens can then be bought cheaper outside, more folks can just buy their way into game wealth with a rl credit card. Is that what you mean by the inflationary effect you were talking about?

Frank

Frank, you can see same effect when in some country in RL there is capital "flee" from that country to elsewhere. It always push the exchange rate of the source country down. If everybody sell the Turkish Lira and cash out to invest in the US$, then the amount of Turkish Liradoes not become less. But the exchange rate goes down.

If now people would visit one country and *work* there, then send their earnings home (what many content creators or service providers in SL are doing), then they grow the economy of their host country (in our case SL). This growth in create value balances the cashing out, because what they produce can also be sold or even exported. I know this is kinda complex, but it really work that way and if you look at how L$ exchange rate acted the past 12 months you can also see it.

I read the post title, and the maker, all I have to say is, no, it is based on many factors, one of which is land sales. So, unless you can provide specific evidence that it is one party or another, many people keep seeing you as talking out of your bottom, and your reputation is going down the toilet steadily. It has been stated over and over a few times, we are not looking for net nanny's, we are adults who have seen the risk, and chosen to take it. Just because one tactic of yours has failed, it is not excuse to switch to another. For those of you who do want to know though, keep in mind, that land sales also affect the SL economy, and gee… who has the biggest stake in land sales… I am not sure…

But I would have to ask in return then, has the stripend been cut because of that person.

Kudos!

I love this thread. If taking the low road didn't work, take the lower road!!

*clap clap, massive laughing*

Well if you have invested in this you will probably like the investment vehicle I am participating in it pays 0.2% a day!

Simply put, your stipends have not been cut because of anything Ginko or any other individual has done. Ratings bonuses were eliminated as we had planned months ago, to reduce the amount of L$ in circulation. Yes, a stable L$ valuation was the goal, but not as a direct response to anyone cashing out.

That said, there are many different types of businesses in SL. It is up to each individual to determine whether or not a business is trustworthy. Unlike in the real world there isn't a high degree of regulation of businesses in SL. This lack of regulation is the reason we stress being careful in the community standards. If you haven't seen it yet, please read our policy on resident-run financial servicesbefore you give your L$ to another person for safe-keeping or for investment.

Thank you Robin!

Now - can someting be done about you know what, and you know who??

Personally I believe mine was cut through the greed of the person that bought all the land around my old home at $10,000 per 2048 plot, and then sold it on at $25,999 per 2048 plot, thus creating a huge inflation in land prices, which then has to have a flow on effect on the overall value of the $L. Not to mention a roughly 150% profit for themselves.
Won't point fingers, but that same person has done the exact same thing all over the grid.