Have your stipends been cut because of one Ponzi scheme?

Linden$ collected by Ginko: 18 mio L$
Linden$ cashed out by Ginko: 16 mio L$

Result: massive inflation of L$
Response by Linden Lab: they had to cut your stipend drastically in October as measure to fight inflation!

Somebody with one avatar name "Nicholas" dumped 16 mio L$ on GOM and LindeX, selling for 60000+ US$. Will those 60000 US$ ever return to the SL economy? Judge yourself by reading this thread

As for now the SL economy is bleeding and your stipends continue their suffering.

If money changers are taking Lindens *out* of the economy, that would seem to help *reduce* inflation in SL. Of course, someone has to be buying all those Lindens for dollars; for every buyer there must be a seller. Except for the sovereign (LL) which has the divine right of kings to debase currency by minting paper or digital money.

I did not notice a cut in stipend in October, but then I only immigrated in late September. Can you help me understand where you think the connection is? I'm dense enough that I'm missing it.

Frank

The L$ exchange rate is determined by how many people buy L$ versus sell L$. Ginko massively sold L$, add 16 mio L$ to the sell side. This made the exchange rate drop.

The stipend cuts might have been little bit earlier than october, maybe it was september. It was reaction of Linden Lab to fight inflation that happened while Ginko was cash out more and more.

Nicholas effectively drained the SL economy of 60000 US$ in value that he "invested". He won't say in what. Maybe eGold, or one new BMW. Who knows.

If those 16 mio L$ would have been invested within SL instead of dumped on currency exchanges, then they would have contribute to growth in SL and not lead to the massive pressure on the L$ value. You might still be able to enjoy the nice rating bonus with stipends.

Well...

To me ginko is a fantastic!
I put all my money in there.
It lets it grow a little while keeping it away from me buying every item in Sl..

Yes, there are risks. Like any business that i really don't care about... I should probably. But i don't... I just pay and atm and i get a few lin a day.. WOOPEE What they do with my money is up to them, i would just like it back when i need it

"If it's not broken don't mess with it!"

I am sure you have many things to say back.. but if the system don't work for you. Don't use the system!

Anshe, I am wondering how this would create inflation, and a stipend cut.

the L$16,000,000 have not been taken out of Second Life at once, they have been taken out over a long period of time. (we'll say a year)

Surely, following your logic with this timeperiod in mind, we would have experienced a gradual tapering downward of our stipend.

It was announced at the end of august that in an effort to curb inflation of the L$, Linden Labs would be gradually pruning back stipend bonuses over a period of six weeks, therefore making the current drop in stipend completely unrelated to Ginko Financial pulling money out of Second Life. The plan was to eliminate ratings bonuses within six weeks, making the end of the six weeks about mid-October.

Pulling 16,000,000 out of the economy all at once would cause the linden dollar to tank, as the supply would far outweigh the demand, and nobody would buy. Pulling this money out over a period of a year would not cause such a crash in the market, and would tend to stimulate the L$ economy, keeping the currency supplied well enough to stop the exchange rate from flying up out of hand, but not enough to glut the market, causing the value of the L$ to tank.

I invite you, Ms. Chung, to post your own numbers, how much you have cashed out in the last 12 months?

Edit:
Relavant link to change in stipend policy, posted in announcements forum by Philip Linden:
/3/be/59782/1.html

CCC

Anshe, give it up. You are doing yourself no good at all with this string of completely unprovoked attacks on Ginko.

You may think that your financial clout with LL protects you from the repercussions that anyone else would incur by your behaviour. However, sooner or later LL will be forced to take action, as your behaviour is becoming an embarrassment to them.

HEAR HEAR!

.fox

Yes Anshe, please shut up, no-one really cares that much. If you've got some huge grudge, fight it with whoever you have the grudge against, we don't want to hear about it.

You're not striking me as very professional at all right now, I'm certainly not encouraged to buy land from you in case suddenly it means I'm creating inflation and axing everybody's stripend because I'm an evil, Satan worshiping Pagan witch.

16 million L$ has disapeared from Second Life? WOW how? as to my understanding the creation and destruction of linden dollars is teh sole discretion of linden labs - unlike the real world where if i moved to japan and take my money with me it turns 2 yen and england has lost my amount - second life money - as sold via GOM Lindex and various other money exchanges - is still IN second life - just mearly owned by a different person

The reason for the stipend change was explained by LL in a notecard detailing they have to control the influx (stipends - bonus's) and out flow (buying and charges of linden stuff - such as group creations etc)

This is another sideward stab at a buisness by a competitor who - with the standing she has - should already know the above

oh and i think you are praising the fact that there isnt a court or other form of policing action available for the libal you are sprouting, remember innocent until proven guilty NOT trial by fire, if you have provided me with one fact proving this to be a ponzi scheme - i would be out of there in an instant - but so far you have shown it is a buisness that looks like a bank, feels like a bank and hell, acts like a bank! i wish my rl bank would show their investments and safety procedures as much as nick/gf has shown me sofar.

oh and the 'wheres the investments?' have you been to the ginko islands of late? oh hang on i think you may of have - because they are now providing a land leasing buisness which is quite simular to your buisness model, i wonder why you attack them then.......?

yes i am backing ginko - i have buisness there and would like to see it last - your slanderous attack is not just going to cause ginko havok - it could possibly cause its investors and lease owners havok aswell, then again if it goes tits up and all these people have lost their L$ and shops insted of realising your attacks brought them and their customers down you'd be waiting with a 'i told you so.... here ive got some land....'

bugger two cents, heres my two quid
Kornation

waiting for the 'next' thread like this to see whos flaming who and who deserved the roasting

Girl, have you lost your mind!

I thought I was prone to irrational emotional attacks but you have me beat by far lol.

Here's a little advice;

Breathe in, breathe out.

Too funny - considering how much you must have cashed out of SL over the last year.

Give it up. People don't care what you think about Ginko. I am pretty sure you have an ulterior motive for doing this and you can't stand the competition. Too bad.

Suck it up.

Alexa

I am not running one bank, so don't try call me competitor of Ginko. I am not.

The island sims Nicholas bought are peanuts. They make for less than 5% of what he cashed out into US$.

There has been gradual inflation for about one year, the same period Nicholas cash out the 16 mio L$. Linden Lab react twice with the stipend cut to react to this: first time in January and second time in September.

If those 16 mio L$ would have been invest in SL or be kept in SL accounts this would have helped the SL economy grow and more L$ would have been absorbed in the larger economy activity. They would not have hit GOM and drive the exchange rate down.

As for myself, I sofar cash out very little. Most my earnings I reinvested and circulate back into SL economy. What do you think 100 sims and 15 mio L$ come from? I also funded various SL businesses, content projects and non-profit projects.

My economic activity helped SL grow. Ginko economic activity sofar drive down the L$ and finance... what? We still know nothing about where that 60000 US$ money go. Until told otherwise I would say: it financed Nicholas new BMW!

Good job help promote that Ponzi scheme. By doing so you all share the guilt!

please reread the following statment

'as to my understanding the creation and destruction of linden dollars is teh sole discretion of linden labs - unlike the real world where if i moved to japan and take my money with me it turns 2 yen and england has lost my amount - second life money - as sold via GOM Lindex and various other money exchanges - is still IN second life - just mearly owned by a different person'

a steady influx in L$ can only be caused by more people entering sl = more stipends to be paid = more cash being created

as these people coming in, as it seems, are not creating groups and whatever else LL charges then the influx increases without appropiate sinkholes to fill the gaps

this would also account for the bonus/ratings to drop aswell - as they need to either slow the money entering or create anouther sinkhole

exchanging L$ for us$ cannot change the total ammount of L$ in sl - what u are selling is the right to transfer that amount from a sl account to another - not from sl to the rl (as the rl banks would in the forms of gold transfers and other buisness deals)

im not asking for you totaly take your accusation of a ponzi scheme away, im asking for u to PROVE it, at the moment your entire accusation is based on hearsay, half truths, some which can be seen as total lies (this thread sofar as to the use of ginko as the reason for stipend cuts) and some truths which actually show a buisness model of a real bank, just show me the half truth parts and hearsay is TOTALLY TRUE! prove it! show me that their isnt a rl investment included - show me that - PROVE ME WRONG!

and yes it does account for prob only 5% of his total investments sofar, but he has decided to include rl investments in his buisness model, he admits it.

oh and your not a competitor? again reread...

' because they are now providing a land leasing buisness which is quite simular to your buisness model'

this is a new avenue for ginko asfar as ive seen - the kick in the teeth now could save you a lot of hassle later as, as you have proved sofar, they have a lot of L$ and us$ to play with that could create a large and prosporous land leasing company fast, i and the other people who have their lindens in ginko have invested in this, so asfar as i see you are also a competitor, not just for ginko, but the 100's or 1000's of people that have their money in ginko

actually i have lied in my statements b4 and in the above - ginko isnt a bank - its an investment company

You know Anshe, another more likely possibility, is that they all realise it's a ponzi scheme and are enjoying the wealth while they can.

Much like getting in on a pyramid scheme at the beginning, there is opportunity for lots of profit. People will knowingly invest in those.

This is going to be the biggest "I told you so" in the history of secondlife when this all comes crashing down.

No, my stipend has been cut because Anshechung.com asked Linden Lab to cut it. I've really not been the same since.

Oh and Anshechung.com also beams instructions into my head from their corporate headquarters in Reykjavik; in fact they instructed me to post this.

I want my thoughts back! I want to control my own actions again! I object to this rapacious intrustion into my mind and the accompanying corruption of the purity of my natural bodily fluids! Is remote mind control of an SL player a violation of the ToS?

I thought i saw something relevent to this series of threads, threats, accusations and statments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

for those that cannot be bothered to click the following is a quote from the site

----------------------
'McCarthyism'

Contemporary use of the term

Since the time of the red scare led by Joe McCarthy, the term McCarthyism has entered American speech as a general term for the phenomenon of mass pressure, harassment, or blacklisting used to pressure people to follow popular political beliefs. The act of making insufficiently supported accusations or engaging in unfair investigations against a person as an attempt to unfairly silence or discredit them is often referred to as McCarthyism.

The term has since become synonymous with any government activity that seeks to suppress unfavorable political, or social views, often by limiting or suspending civil rights under the pretext of maintaining national security.
-------------------------

please go to the link provided to find more on said subject

Thanks Mick Foley for providing the insite to this term via his book 'foley is good', his follow-on book to his No1 seller round the world 'Have A Nice Day'

No, you aren't a bank. Most banks don't steal children from their parents and sell them into slave gangs in central Australia.

Blaze, it's not the "I told you so" that is troubling. It's the manner in which the "I told you so" is being communicated.

Please stop defending this behavior. It's unfair to Ginko, Nicholas, and it's investors.

Simply put, If you do not approve of Ginko, then do not invest in it. You may even feel compelled to speak out againsts its risks and that is fine as long as it is done in a professional, courteous, and respectful manner.

This is neither, and it should be condemned by all SL residents.

Please stop defending Ginko. It is unfair to all investors, poor souls who might get mislead into invest there in the future and all the people in SL who suffer from the impact this thing has on the SL economy at large.

Sure, if somebody pull some scam and I post my opinion about what it is, I make him unhappy. All I actually asked is the information of where that money has gone and that he provide proof to Linden Lab that this information is correct. He is obviously not able or willing come up with that, despite people start to withdraw money and his L$ reserve already drop by 10% in one day.

I am the happiest girl on these forums if Nicholas provide us the solid information and proof of where the money went. Until then I am his nightmare.

until then you are McCarthy

I am not taking sides in this..

I aggree there is a vital peice of infomation untold..

and am wondering how they can pay 66.64% per year..

But i am happy.

Confused but Happy!

Putting aside individual instances, I'm trying to understand the effects of a big Linden transaction.

Let's say someone ... anyone ... accumulated 16 million Lindens by whatever means ... by borrowing it, by selling goods and services, or by selling securities. Let's say that they have this "in cash" ... as a Linden balance. Let's call this person "Seller."

Seller then decides they want to play a different game, or buy a nice real life house, so they try to convert the 16 million Lindens into US dollars at the current exchange rate. If this is an extraordinary transaction, it may require an extraordinary buyer or a consortium or syndicate of buyers. I"m guessing that there is not a ready buyer with US$60 thousand on hand to buy all those Lindens.

But let's say someone we call "Buyer" does do the deal ... pays US$60 thousand and receives 16 million Lindens. I assume (correct me if there is another option) that Buyer holds it in his/her own SL cash balance.

Is not that Linden "money" still "in the game," as much as it was when it was in Seller's cash account? It looks to me like it is. I'm trying to understand the finances, not the politics here.

I can see why such a heavy sale must depress the exchange rate ... driving down the price of Lindens in dollars ... bad news for anyone who is "long" Lindens (holds a lot in cash) ... but does that not make Lindens more affordable to folks who have US dollars that can now be paid to buy Lindens?

Devaluing an inflated currency helps some folks and hurts others, but is often the bitter medicine that real world financiers recommend nation-states take in order to cure out-of-control inflation, or have I got it backwards?

Again, hoping to discuss the theories of the financial workings, not the politics. May not be possible since the thread was started using real instances instead of hypotheticals.

Frank

Well yes. money gets handed over.. The only thing i am not sure about is traffic bonus and stipends.. I thnik they are just "created" and given out.. so there is not a limted amount of lin in Sl..